Something Random

time

Storage? I am Storage!
Joined
Jan 18, 2002
Messages
4,932
Location
Brisbane, Oz
It'll be a lot more effective to melt your belly than your ill-faithed regime.

I believe you mean "ill-fated"? Although bad-faithed could be appropriate if Ddrueding was just telling his wife he was going to lose weight, while really intending to have boozy afternoons sampling every Jack Daniels product known to man.

And if you're such a great ventriloquist, who's your sock puppet?
 

jtr1962

Storage? I am Storage!
Joined
Jan 25, 2002
Messages
4,365
Location
Flushing, New York
You discovered that also. I've been lusting after the Rohloff from the day I saw it. Stick that on a velomobile, along with the Schlumpf high-speed crankset with planetary gears, and you have a nice, super-wide range drivetrain with no derailleurs. Doing some math, I figured use the 2.5X high-speed crank with a 34 tooth chainring ( the stock 27 would exceed the minimum 2.35 chainring/sprocket ratio required by the Rohloff hub ). Choose the 13 tooth option for the Rohloff sprocket. You now have 34/13 = 2.615, which comfortably exceeds 2.35. You can even get by with 34/14 = 2.429. Anyway, the 34/13 option gives you a low of ~17" (gear-inches). When the high-speed crank is set at 2.5, the resulting high would be ~226.5". Corresponding speeds at a 90 RPM cadence would be 4.6 mph and 60.5 mph, respectively. Great now for both uphills and downhills. Unfortunately, your wallet will also be lightened quite a bit. :-D
 

ddrueding

Fixture
Joined
Feb 4, 2002
Messages
19,719
Location
Horsens, Denmark
Amazon is making it more difficult to just buy an MP3 and download it.

1. No, I don't want to save it to your stupid "cloud drive"
2. No, I don't want to use your stupid downloader

It is $0.99 for a <10mb download. It shouldn't be this complicated.
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a Fixture
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
17,454
Location
USA
Although bad-faithed could be appropriate if Ddrueding was just telling his wife he was going to lose weight, while really intending to have boozy afternoons sampling every Jack Daniels product known to man.
:cool:
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a Fixture
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
17,454
Location
USA
Amazon is making it more difficult to just buy an MP3 and download it.

1. No, I don't want to save it to your stupid "cloud drive"
2. No, I don't want to use your stupid downloader

It is $0.99 for a <10mb download. It shouldn't be this complicated.

Is that the same cloud that goes offline for a day or more?
 

ddrueding

Fixture
Joined
Feb 4, 2002
Messages
19,719
Location
Horsens, Denmark
No idea. It isn't a service I am interested in. I like possessing things that I purchase, even if it is only digitally. The thought that I pay a buck to give their server permission to play a song that I theoretically bought to me is distasteful.
 

Mercutio

Fatwah on Western Digital
Joined
Jan 17, 2002
Messages
22,232
Location
I am omnipresent
Amazon's cloud is just a storage device. It's actually a nice thing to have, since prior to its release, Amazon did not allow purchasers to re-download purchased digital tracks, but files that are on an individual's cloud can be re-downloaded.
 

MaxBurn

Storage Is My Life
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Messages
3,245
Location
SC
Cool, new record low for me at $47 electric bill. I was out of home a lot may, june, july last year.
 

Pradeep

Storage? I am Storage!
Joined
Jan 21, 2002
Messages
3,845
Location
Runny glass
This thread or another one we were talking about gas prices.

Aus pricing seems to be about AUD$1.45 per liter right now. That's about USD$1.55. 3.79 liters per US gallon gives pricing around USD$5.87 per gallon.

US pricing is currently around the US$4.00 per gallon mark.

It's interesting Aus petrol pricing doesn't seem to have dropped to reflect the stronger Oz dollar.
 

Mercutio

Fatwah on Western Digital
Joined
Jan 17, 2002
Messages
22,232
Location
I am omnipresent
Gas could be $8 a gallon and for the most part everybody in the US who has positive cash flow would still be buying exactly the same amount of it. Maybe teenagers would go back to riding bikes.

Upon consideration, $8/gallon gas is probably a good step toward jtr's utopia. :)
 

ddrueding

Fixture
Joined
Feb 4, 2002
Messages
19,719
Location
Horsens, Denmark
I think $10/gal gas would be a big step in the right direction. A friend who has 5 drivers in his family just put two of the 7 vehicles he owns on the market. Only 1 of the 7 gets better than 12mpg.
 

jtr1962

Storage? I am Storage!
Joined
Jan 25, 2002
Messages
4,365
Location
Flushing, New York
Gas could be $8 a gallon and for the most part everybody in the US who has positive cash flow would still be buying exactly the same amount of it. Maybe teenagers would go back to riding bikes.
Never mind just teenagers. For distances of about 5 miles or less, if you're not carrying much cargo, a bike isn't a bad way to get around. That's doubly true in large cities. I make as good or better time on most of my bike trips than you would by car. And I have at times gone 20 miles each way.

Velomobiles and dedicated infrastructure can make human-powered transport practical out to 15-20 miles at average speeds exceeding 30, even 40 mph, with properly streamlined vehicles. In fact, since most car trips are under 20 miles, velomobile can handily replace them. And you can stick in a small electric motor for those unable to keep up with stronger riders.

Upon consideration, $8/gallon gas is probably a good step toward jtr's utopia. :)
Maybe. My guess is if such prices continue long-term it'll simply mean most people switching from gas cars to electric cars. Although EVs solve my single biggest complaint about cars, namely air pollution, they're still a car which requires wasting lots of space for roads and parking lots. And they'll still kill and maim at the same unacceptable rate as gas cars. Honestly, assuming we had the infrastructure, I'm having a hard time seeing that cars are needed at all for most people. Basically, the best passenger modes for various distances are as follows:

0-1 miles: walk
1-5 miles: bicycle, motorized bicycle/tricycle for those unable to pedal, walk
5-20 miles: velomobile, subway, bus, bike if you're fit enough
20-50 miles: commuter rail, possibly velomobile
50 to 1000 miles: high-speed rail
1000+ miles: evacuated tube maglev

Naturally some of these modes can be combined. For example, if you're traveling intercontinental distances you probably won't have an evacuated tube maglev station next door. It might be something like bike to subway station, take subway to high-speed rail station, take high-speed rail to evacuated tube maglev station. Do the reverse at your destination. Still faster overall than flying. And the other modes are faster overall for their respective distances than what we do today, which is usually drive.

That takes care of passenger transport. Cargo is another thing. Here you'll probably still need trucks to get most cargo the last few miles. For most of the distance though freight rail or water is the most cost-effective way to move cargo. I'm not seeing much need for intercity trucking.

Basically then when you consider everything motor vehicles aren't needed at all for long distances, and neither is long-distance motor vehicle infrastructure. You basically go to a mix of delivery trucks and emergency vehicles, all on local streets only. The Interstate Highway System can be converted to a combination of high-speed rail, with maybe two lanes left for dedicated velomobile tracks for those adventurous enough to take velomobiles on cross-country trips.

Not a utopia by any stretch, but much better and more balanced IMO than what we have today, which is a choice between driving (bad), or flying (worse).
 

jtr1962

Storage? I am Storage!
Joined
Jan 25, 2002
Messages
4,365
Location
Flushing, New York
By subsidize you really mean doesn't tax it at insane levels like many other countries in the world right? :scratch:
Wasn't Congress just talking about eliminating the $2 billion in tax breaks it gives to the oil industry? A special tax break equals a subsidy, which in turn equals lower prices at the pump than would otherwise be. Given all the negatives associated with fossil fuel use, subsidizing it is about as stupid as it gets for a policy decision. If we didn't subsidize gas prices, many of the other alternatives would be able to compete on a fair basis, even without government subsidies for them also.

The oil's running out anyway. Might as well get off it soon. If we wait until our hand is forced, it'll be chaos.
 

Chewy509

Wotty wot wot.
Joined
Nov 8, 2006
Messages
3,348
Location
Gold Coast Hinterland, Australia
jtr, I would love to take public transport to/from Uni 3-4 days a week. However, these are points that must be considered in my personal case:

The nearest train station is 6km from my house.
I live semi-rural, so the only local bus service is 6 times a day mainly timetabled for K-12 school kids. (3 services in the morning, 3 in the afternoon)
The cost of the train trip to/from the CBD where I got to Uni is $13 per day.
Estimated travel time is 1hr 30min each way. (Assuming I get the bus to the train station - add 45min if I have to walk - or $4 per day for secured push bike storage at the train station).

Total annual cost: $1521
Travel time 351 hours.

I currently ride a motorbike which gets 2.9L/100km (81mpg).
Fuel cost per week is $15.00 avg.
Estimated travel time is 40min each way. Distance traveled is 45km each way (28miles). (Approx 270km/168miles per week).
Parking on campus is $75 per 6mths. (Or can be free if I choose - but I like the secure undercover option).
Insurance is $180 per yr.

Total annual cost: $915. + $350 for servicing and registration.
Travel time 170 hours.

So riding a motorbike saves me both time and money...

My wife does drive the 4WD (or a SUV), but that's mainly for the 2 kids and when we go to do grocery shopping, and maybe a short/local outing every second/third day. (Takes the kids/dog to the local park where there are ducks to feed, a large play ground, etc).
 

jtr1962

Storage? I am Storage!
Joined
Jan 25, 2002
Messages
4,365
Location
Flushing, New York
Chewy,

My last post is more an idea of what we could do if we built the right infrastructure, not what is. The present reality is that lots of people have few alternatives to driving, unfortunately. My question is why isn't the government doing everything in their power to change that in the long term. No reason we need to be dependent upon either cars or oil twenty years from now (or even ten years from now if we set our minds to it). The family that owns a motor vehicle should be the exception, not the rule (unless that motor vehicle is a motorized bicycle or velomobile).

Incidentally, 28 miles each way might be suited to velomobile if the roads are fairly level and the motor traffic isn't that aggressive. The grocery shopping and recreational trips your wife takes might possibly be done via bicycle. A cargo trailer can carry lots of groceries. Again, it all depends upon how far you're going, the terrain, and whether or not bike travel is safely possible on the roads in question (sadly in much of the US it isn't). I walk to get all my groceries. Most of the stores are under a mile away.

I personally think people should live near where they work and/or try to get jobs which allow them to work from home. That alone would solve most of the issues.
 

Bozo

Storage? I am Storage!
Joined
Feb 12, 2002
Messages
4,396
Location
Twilight Zone
Bikes are nice if you under 40 years old. They are also nice if you have a nice flat terrain to travel, and a short distance to go. Riding in the rain is the pits. In the freezing weather and snow is almost impossible.
Electric cars are not ready for prime time. I can see me asking my employer for an extension cord to recharge the batteries. They would garnish my wages to pay for the electric.(and make a profit doing it) There are plenty of places that can't produce enough electricity now let alone adding electric cars to it. IE: rolling blackouts, brown outs and complete failures. The governments installing charging stations?? Sure, but they will raise your taxes to pay for it and charge you to use it, and make a profit while they are at it.
And don't forget all the pollution power plants make. They would be making even more to keep up with the demand of a few million electric cars. Nuclear power? Not after the mess in Japan.
 

jtr1962

Storage? I am Storage!
Joined
Jan 25, 2002
Messages
4,365
Location
Flushing, New York
Bozo,

The real solution is just to lessen the need to travel. Live closer to work, telecommute, buy locally grown food, etc.

And electrics are more than ready for prime time. Much of the charging would be do overnight, when power plants actually have energy to spare. You don't need to charge at work if you recharge at home overnight. EVs nowadays can have ranges exceeding 100 miles.

As for bikes, baloney about needing to be under 40. I'm 48 and can ride 30 miles on a good day, at least 15 on a bad one, and I'm not in the best shape (~30 pounds overweight). I could probably go 100 miles if I rode more often. Velomobiles can be enclosed to allow all-weather riding. And if there's hills, you have e-assist bikes (which also increase the range and speed over any terrain). There are cities where bikes are ~40% of the modal share for commuting to work, even in cold, snowy weather.
 

Stereodude

Not really a
Joined
Jan 22, 2002
Messages
10,865
Location
Michigan
Wasn't Congress just talking about eliminating the $2 billion in tax breaks it gives to the oil industry? A special tax break equals a subsidy, which in turn equals lower prices at the pump than would otherwise be.
IMHO, a tax break is not a subsidy. Besides, everyone knows that corporations don't pay taxes. Their customers pay the taxes because the product ends up being more expensive. So, the solution to high gas prices is to make gas more expensive?
The oil's running out anyway. Might as well get off it soon. If we wait until our hand is forced, it'll be chaos.
I think we should use up every last drop of oil. When a viable alternative to oil exists the market will move to it. No amount of hand waving & legislating by 535 idiots in Washington DC is going to make a viable alternative to oil appear out of thin air.
 

Stereodude

Not really a
Joined
Jan 22, 2002
Messages
10,865
Location
Michigan
jtr, I would love to take public transport to/from Uni 3-4 days a week. However, these are points that must be considered in my personal case:

The nearest train station is 6km from my house.
I live semi-rural, so the only local bus service is 6 times a day mainly timetabled for K-12 school kids. (3 services in the morning, 3 in the afternoon)
The cost of the train trip to/from the CBD where I got to Uni is $13 per day.
Estimated travel time is 1hr 30min each way. (Assuming I get the bus to the train station - add 45min if I have to walk - or $4 per day for secured push bike storage at the train station).

Total annual cost: $1521
Travel time 351 hours.

I currently ride a motorbike which gets 2.9L/100km (81mpg).
Fuel cost per week is $15.00 avg.
Estimated travel time is 40min each way. Distance traveled is 45km each way (28miles). (Approx 270km/168miles per week).
Parking on campus is $75 per 6mths. (Or can be free if I choose - but I like the secure undercover option).
Insurance is $180 per yr.

Total annual cost: $915. + $350 for servicing and registration.
Travel time 170 hours.

So riding a motorbike saves me both time and money...

My wife does drive the 4WD (or a SUV), but that's mainly for the 2 kids and when we go to do grocery shopping, and maybe a short/local outing every second/third day. (Takes the kids/dog to the local park where there are ducks to feed, a large play ground, etc).
This is easy. JTR and people like him think you should be forced (via economic coercion) to move to where the public transportation is readily available.
 

Stereodude

Not really a
Joined
Jan 22, 2002
Messages
10,865
Location
Michigan
The real solution is just to lessen the need to travel. Live closer to work, telecommute, buy locally grown food, etc.
What you really mean is less individual freedom. More state run social planning. After all, it's for the collective good. ;)
 

jtr1962

Storage? I am Storage!
Joined
Jan 25, 2002
Messages
4,365
Location
Flushing, New York
IMHO, a tax break is not a subsidy. Besides, everyone knows that corporations don't pay taxes. Their customers pay the taxes because the product ends up being more expensive. So, the solution to high gas prices is to make gas more expensive?
Yes, because that's the only thing which will get people off oil for good. Funny how I remember you bitching like crazy about the subsidies the government gives for solar, wind, etc. I guess subsidies are fine in your book if they're for something you personally use, but not for something someone else uses.

BTW, the sudsidies for oil use are not only direct, but indirect as well. Do people using oil pay for the illnesses the pollution causes? Do they pay for the foreign wars needed to secure oil supplies? No, they don't see those costs at the pump. Rather, they pay an indirect subsidy exceeding $5 a gallon in the form of other taxes, most income taxes. I think we should just charge for externalities directly at the pump. It'll make people see what oil really costs.

I think we should use up every last drop of oil. When a viable alternative to oil exists the market will move to it. No amount of hand waving & legislating by 535 idiots in Washington DC is going to make a viable alternative to oil appear out of thin air.
Putting aside that we've had viable alternatives to oil for decades which policy keeps us from using, the big problem with your line of thinking is you'll continue to have these price swings as long as you use oil, and also you'll kill the planet in the process. Not to mention there will be chaos fighting for that last drop of oil if we fail to convert to alternatives first in an orderly manner. Since you're so big on free markets, let the free markets reign. Stop the subsidies for oil, and for everything else for that matter. Just charge for the costs of externalities, like pollution, for all energy sources. The market will choose the best power sources. I'll bet good money oil won't be among them. Nuclear sounds good to me, along with wind, solar, geothermal, hydro, tidal. While you're at it, get rid of all the other social engineering in the tax code (after all, you're not big on that, right?). That includes home mortgage deductions which favor home ownership over renting (and therefore sprawl over more compact living not requiring auto use), deductions for dependents, etc. Basically treat everyone the same under the tax code, and better yet implement a sales tax instead of an income tax (i.e. tax consumption since that's really the root of the problem).

What you really mean is less individual freedom. More state run social planning. After all, it's for the collective good.
How is not being dependent on a finicky, expensive piece of machinery like a car being less free? Guess what, I don't have to worry about car repairs, car payments, higher gas prices, traffic tickets, renewing my driver's license/registration, and so forth. I don't have to waste extra time working to pay for these things, either. Freedom baby! Fuck big oil, fuck the automakers, fuck the DMV, most of all fuck the cops and their ticket quotas! You bought into that whole auto=freedom crap hook, line, and sinker. I'm more free than you. I'll need to earn $300,000 less over my life than you to retire at the same standard of living just by virtue of never needing to drive. And I'm starting to grow my own food. More freedom! The American idea of freedom isn't about subsidizing big corporations trying to get us to buy crap we don't need.

What's good for what you call the collective more often than not ends up being better for you as well. Try it. You might actually agree. Just think of all the cool computer stuff you could buy with what you save paying for a car. ;)
 

Chewy509

Wotty wot wot.
Joined
Nov 8, 2006
Messages
3,348
Location
Gold Coast Hinterland, Australia
This is easy. JTR and people like him think you should be forced (via economic coercion) to move to where the public transportation is readily available.
As I said, I would love to use alternate transport, be it walking, bike or mass public transport. (my waist line would like it as well).

However in order to move to an area that has those facilities and be close to Uni (as in my case) would see a significant increase in my rent or a significant downsize in our dwelling size or most likely both, which we simply can not afford to do.

I agree, gov should get behind public transport and promote other alternate transport means. Such as the Brisbane City Council recently installing rent-a-bike services in the central business district to promote riding a bike rather than paying for a taxi when moving around the city.

But for the majority of people, the way public transport infrastructure is, significantly increases the travel time, and for many that means either money (since they can't be at their desk working longer hours), longer work days (time from door-step to door-step due to the time penalty that the current public transport system incurs) and ultimately less time with the family.

Now that won't change unless you see a mass migration to an apartment living culture from what is currently (and this is especially true where I live) a culture that enjoys having a large block of land (1/4 acre) with a free standing house and the double garage. Or the local government adds significant infrastructure and capital to bring about a highly efficient and affordable public transport system, that is both comparable in travel time, cost and convenience to driving a motor vehicle. So to get the latter, who will pay for it? And for the former, that'll take 10's of years to accomplish, not to mention that a lot of inner city areas around Brisbane are still free-standing houses, and not units/apartment buildings, which itself will need significant $$$ to convert.

And once I start looking for work post Uni life, I will definitely be looking at telecommute options. :rambo:
 

jtr1962

Storage? I am Storage!
Joined
Jan 25, 2002
Messages
4,365
Location
Flushing, New York
Chewy, mass transit is certainly expensive, but it doesn't cost much money or take much time to build separated cycle tracks. I realize those probably wouldn't be of much use to you personally given your commute distance, but for a lot of people who currently drive a few miles, suddenly biking would become a viable alternative. This is exactly what we're starting to do here in NYC. So far though most of the cycle tracks are located in Manhattan, and thus most people are just switching from subway to bike. As we add more cycleways in the outer boroughs, we could potentially replace a good number of car trips with bike trips. I'm still a fan of rail mass transit, but lately I think human-powered transportation has a lot of untapped potential.

There isn't any one-size fits all solution, either. I just want us to go from primarily depending upon cars to a mix of cars, bikes, velomobiles, bus, subway, commuter rail, high-speed rail. That's exactly how it seems to work now in Europe and Japan. They still have cars, but many people don't need them.
 

ddrueding

Fixture
Joined
Feb 4, 2002
Messages
19,719
Location
Horsens, Denmark
Singapore did it, and it works great. It is not about the quality of the decision, not how it is made. Democracy is only the most resilient (individual-proof?) way to get there, and only if the people are educated.
 

Bozo

Storage? I am Storage!
Joined
Feb 12, 2002
Messages
4,396
Location
Twilight Zone
From Wikipedia: "Singapore is a parliamentary republic with a Westminster system of unicameral parliamentary government representing constituencies. The Constitution of Singapore establishes representative democracy as the political system."

Maybe not a democracy like the US, but certainly not a socialist country.
 

Stereodude

Not really a
Joined
Jan 22, 2002
Messages
10,865
Location
Michigan
You know, I had a lengthy reply typed up, but it just isn't worth arguing with you. We're not going to find any common ground. You want all the elements of a high standard of living, but you don't want any of the infrastructure & backbone needed to to deliver it. This isn't a Gene Roddenberry utopia and never will be.
 
Top