SSDs - State of the Product?

[ddrueding]

I just bought some spinning platter HDDs (6x 10TB), but there is no way I'd run a program off of it or even access that data directly without some 3-tier SSD / RAM caching to make it usable. 43.64TB usable and wicked fast for <$5k. I'll do some performance testing once the array is calculated and I have the 10GbE NICs in the other machines.

 

[Howell]

Right, like I said it's likely enterprise will be the last bastion of HDDs.

If you mean SMB then yes.

 

[LunarMist]

I just bought some spinning platter HDDs (6x 10TB), but there is no way I'd run a program off of it or even access that data directly without some 3-tier SSD / RAM caching to make it usable. 43.64TB usable and wicked fast for <$5k. I'll do some performance testing once the array is calculated and I have the 10GbE NICs in the other machines.

Why would you not want to access data directly from that Synology NAS? Is it really so slow (much worse than a single 10TB drive) or do you mean it is too slow for many concurrent users?

 

[ddrueding]

It is too slow in comparison to all-SSD solutions (the only alternative, IMO). I'm able to fully saturate the 10GbE connection for large periods of time, and the access time for all the data I've asked for so far is what I would expect from an SSD on a fast network.

 

[LunarMist]

Now the 4TB EVO SSDs are ~$1600. Even the 2TB 850 Pro is more expensive than nearly 2 years ago. :crap:
Meanwhile 10TB drives that were $600 last year are now under $400. At this rate HDDs are not going away very soon.

 

[jtr1962]

I'm pretty disappointed myself that there's been no downward movement on prices in over a year.

 

[timwhit]

The market for 2TB+ SSDs is pretty small.

I was looking at Laptops yesterday, pretty much everything in the $1k range has a 256GB SSD. Even a $2800 MacBook Pro comes with only a 512GB SSD. This can be upgraded to 2TB for a total price of $4000.

 

[LunarMist]

The market for 2TB+ SSDs is pretty small.

I was looking at Laptops yesterday, pretty much everything in the $1k range has a 256GB SSD. Even a $2800 MacBook Pro comes with only a 512GB SSD. This can be upgraded to 2TB for a total price of $4000.

The market is small because the prices are so high.
I don't want to spend $1600 for a 4TB SATA SSD if U.2 will be mainstream soon.

 

[jtr1962]

NAND flash shortage, mainly thanks to the iPhone 8, is to blame for all this:

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4085499-1999minus-2000-memory-shortage-redux-blame-iphone-8-time

https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/news/taking-apart-the-global-nand-memory-shortage/

http://searchsolidstatestorage.tech...flash-shortage-exists-and-what-to-do-about-it

 

[LunarMist]

NAND flash shortage, mainly thanks to the iPhone 8, is to blame for all this:

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4085499-1999minus-2000-memory-shortage-redux-blame-iphone-8-time

https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/news/taking-apart-the-global-nand-memory-shortage/

http://searchsolidstatestorage.tech...flash-shortage-exists-and-what-to-do-about-it

I suppose, but it's not like chips are mined from asteroids or something. They can make more.

 

[Stereodude]

I suppose, but it's not like chips are mined from asteroids or something. They can make more.

But why would they want to when they can artificially keep prices high and make more money?

 

[jtr1962]

But why would they want to when they can artificially keep prices high and make more money?

Exactly. I suspect NAND manufacturers are going to milk this for every penny they can. They'll only start making more NAND when they can't make timely deliveries to buyers.

Not helping matters is that it costs literally billions of dollars to compete. So it's not like there's going to be someone else out there offering chips for less any time soon.

 

[LunarMist]

Exactly. I suspect NAND manufacturers are going to milk this for every penny they can. They'll only start making more NAND when they can't make timely deliveries to buyers.

Not helping matters is that it costs literally billions of dollars to compete. So it's not like there's going to be someone else out there offering chips for less any time soon.

Can't the Chinese robots make them for cheap? :rofl:

 

[jtr1962]

Can't the Chinese robots make them for cheap? :rofl:

If only that were true we would have 4TB SSDs selling for less than HDDs.

 

[LunarMist]

I was really expecting 4TB for $1000 by XMAS, but obviously not.

 

[sechs]

The market is small because the prices are so high.
I don't want to spend $1600 for a 4TB SATA SSD if U.2 will be mainstream soon.

I'm pretty sure that U.2 already lost the war to M.2.

 

[Lena]

I was really expecting 4TB for $1000 by XMAS, but obviously not.

I can sought of relate. Haha

 

[sedrosken]

Thankfully I don't see much of a reason to change the status quo as far as my machine's storage -- 120GB SSD for booting and productivity programs, 4TB HDD for games and user data works wonderfully for me. I'm apparently a pretty cheap date, so to speak.

 

[jtr1962]

Thankfully I don't see much of a reason to change the status quo as far as my machine's storage -- 120GB SSD for booting and productivity programs, 4TB HDD for games and user data works wonderfully for me. I'm apparently a pretty cheap date, so to speak.

I've been living with a 240GB SSD for a boot drive for over 4 years. It's finally getting close to full but I can put in one of 960GB Enterprise SSDs I have as a replacement. That should be good virtually forever at the rate I use storage.

 

[LunarMist]

I'm pretty sure that U.2 already lost the war to M.2.

The capacity is too small and they overheat.

 

[sechs]

The capacity is too small and they overheat.

Most people clearly don't need as much space as you and have figured out how to properly ventilate their cases.

 

[ddrueding]

The motherboard manufacturers clearly consider the heat thing a real issue; my new X299-Deluxe has a large heatsink just for the M.2 slot. I've attached heatsinks to them in other installs. And motherboards are available with at least 4 slots on them, with PCIe cards offering more slots if needed.

 

[LunarMist]

It might take years to make an 8TB M.2 that doesn't overheat. I might just buy a 4TB SSD, but not crippled at SATA speeds.

 

[sechs]

The motherboard manufacturers clearly consider the heat thing a real issue; my new X299-Deluxe has a large heatsink just for the M.2 slot. I've attached heatsinks to them in other installs. And motherboards are available with at least 4 slots on them, with PCIe cards offering more slots if needed.

I'm not saying that M.2 drives don't overheat and throttle... but I feel like these motherboard heatsinks are like some GPU backplates. More for looks than function.

 

[LunarMist]

I'm not saying that M.2 drives don't overheat and throttle... but I feel like these motherboard heatsinks are like some GPU backplates. More for looks than function.

That's why I want 2.5" sized SSDs that can be cooled by drive bay fans.

 

[sechs]

That's why I want 2.5" sized SSDs that can be cooled by drive bay fans.

Because putting your chips in a box and putting a fan on the box makes more sense than just putting a fan on your chips?

 

[LunarMist]

Because a 2.5 inch or 3.5 drive can hold a lot more chips.

 

[Handruin]

So why aren't you buying the 2.5" NVMe drives since you dislike the m.2 form?

 

[LunarMist]

So why aren't you buying the 2.5" NVMe drives since you dislike the m.2 form?

I would but I thought from Sechs' comment that they are not manufactured.

 

[Handruin]

They absolutely exist. We have a pile of them at work. Some made by Intel and some by Samsung.

 

[CougTek]

The 2.5" NVMe drives have been available for 2 or 3 years now. They are significantly cheaper than SAS SSD (although often faster), but don't expect consumer-like prices either. Expect ~1$/GB for the write-intensive models (Intel DC P4600, Micron 9100MAX, etc) and 0.50$-0.70$/GB for read-intensive models (Intel DC P3520, DC P4500).

The DC P4600 will probably be the fastest drive for the money when it will be available in several weeks.

If you plan to purchase one, be careful as most of them are available in both U.2 (2.5") and PCI-E (HHHL) form factors.

 

[LunarMist]

I probably was not following the enterprise drives. What controller are they connected to or are certain billboards needed?

 

[Handruin]

As a starting point, take a look here. There is even an adapter that can plug into the m.2 slot which allows you to run a cable to a 2.5" NVMe SSD. I'm only aware of enterprise drives being available in a 2.5" size with NVMe connectors.

 

[sechs]

I would but I thought from Sechs' comment that they are not manufactured.

If you're willing to pay through the nose, everything can be manufactured.

U.2 on the desktop just doesn't make a lot of sense. One can get quite large M.2 SSDs or just go straight to storage on a PCIe card.

 

[Handruin]

If you're willing to pay through the nose, everything can be manufactured.

U.2 on the desktop just doesn't make a lot of sense. One can get quite large M.2 SSDs or just go straight to storage on a PCIe card.

You're forgetting the NVMe hot-swap use case. This is exactly what we had and needed in our lab from a Dell R730 rack-mount systems. There is demand for manufacturing 2.5" NVMe SSDs that aren't special cases.

 

[sechs]

You're forgetting the NVMe hot-swap use case. This is exactly what we had and needed in our lab from a Dell R730 rack-mount systems. There is demand for manufacturing 2.5" NVMe SSDs that aren't special cases.

I'd argue that rack-mount systems aren't desktops. 8)

 

[LunarMist]

If you're willing to pay through the nose, everything can be manufactured.

U.2 on the desktop just doesn't make a lot of sense. One can get quite large M.2 SSDs or just go straight to storage on a PCIe card.

Are there 4GB M.2 cards yet? That may be enough if they work on a removable.

 

[Stereodude]

Are there 4GB M.2 cards yet? That may be enough if they work on a removable.

Seems a little small to me, but what do I know? :dunno:

 

[LunarMist]

I think the widths are the same but some are longer. 4TB is enough for large project in progress.

 

[Handruin]

I'd argue that rack-mount systems aren't desktops. 8)

You can put them in desktop systems. Lunar has atypical requirements so it requires procuring enterprise level equipment.