''State Of The Art'' CPU Cooling (Circa Dec 2003)

[Computer Generated Baby]

To be more exact, I'm looking for the QUIETEST way to cool a 478-pin P4 processor.

The Thermaltake SP-94 heat pipe thingee and the Swiftech MCX478-V both seemed (presumably) to be the most efficient heatsinks around.

So, with the best of these two heatsinks -- whichever it is -- what would be the QUIETEST fan available?

 

[Mercutio]

A little research suggests you'll be well off with a Panaflo FBA08A12L1A. That's an 80mm fan but there's probably an adaptor for your heat sink somewhere.

For an all-in-one you might look at a Vantec Aeroflow.

If you'd rather spend money on things more interesting than heat sinks and fans, several folk here, myself included, have found "big fan" Speeze HSF combos affordable, very quiet and quite effective.

 

[Computer Generated Baby]

A little research suggests you'll be well off with a Panaflo FBA08A12L1A. That's an 80mm fan but there's probably an adaptor for your heat sink somewhere...

I've seen a number of Panaflow (Panasonic) fans over the years. They've all been "case" type fans as opposed to CPU cooler fans. This is a fixed speed case fan, correct?

PS: I'm actually not trying to do a cheap-as-possible setup here, just attain the <<< QUIETEST >>> setup without having to go something as drastic as water cooling. Basically, just a large heatsink with a low speed fan mounted on top. Indeed, it would be great if it could be done for under US$50 ~ $60.

 

[Computer Generated Baby]

Here are the two heatsinks I'm still interested in (unless there's something that disapates heat even better). I would hope that a "big" slow turning efficient fan on top of one of these could do the job of a smaller Intel-branded heatsink + high-speed fan.

By the way, NO OVERCLOCKING going on here, just normal P4 activities with the processor being fairly active doing audio / video processing.

Thermaltake SP-94 Heat Pipe

Swiftwech MCX478-V P4

(...the Swiftech heatsink will allegedly can take an 80mm or 92mm fan)

 

[CougTek]

Many Panaflo fans don't even come with the connector, just the bare wires, so you can chose what type of connector you'll attach them to. Being a "case" fan with a constant velocity doesn't hinder its hability to cool your processor. With the monstrous heatsinks (which are both way heavier than Intel's weight specification for a heatsink BTW) like those you are thinking about, the fan won't need to turn faster when the CPU will be more solicitated. A low speed 92mm that you won't hear unless you put your ear on the enclosure should be enough. Look for a 92mm fan with a dB/a rating of less than 25 and you'll have what you want and cfm of at least 20.

IMO though, you're looking for a way more sophisticated setup than you'd need.

 

[Corvair]

CougTech:

A >>> quiet <<< constant-speed 80mm or 92mm fan sounds about like what I'd need then. A little overkill is better than something that just barely gets the job done for a critical function such as CPU cooling.

I've seen these front panel accessories that allow you to vary the speed of the fan(s) inside one's computer. Hmmm... By the way, I've looked at some interesting contemporary watercooling setups. If it wasn't for what looks like a small motorcycle radiator hanging out the backside of the chassis, and the approximately US$300 price tag, such a setup could cool a dual-processor mobo including the chipset, yet be virtually dead silent with a pair of slow spinning fans pushing heat out of the anti-freeze as it flowed through the radiator.

Other things I've committed to are installing silicone gel gaskets on the mounting surfaces of the power supply and the 120mm main exhaust fan, where they mount to the chassis, and neoprene washers on the mounting screws.

A thin sheet of anechoic material on the inside of the case lid should be the icing on the cake. That will absorb whatever miscellaneous mid- and high-frequency sounds are generated inside the chassis.

 

[fool]

Yes, either of those are probably overkill,
But they’re so shinny .
If you go with either of those get a 92mm fan. (they both take them).
If want to use an 80mm fan get an SLK800U and some change.
And every DC fan is variable speed if you change the voltage it sees.
While I’m sure that NRG will be along in a while to tell us everything about fans ( CFM’s and dbAs and static pressures and bearing technologies and what the designer’s had for breakfast..)I don’t think that you’ll no go far wrong if;
At 80mm you go with the Panoflo. (unless you absolutely need speed monitoring)
At 92mm a Papst, Panoflo or NMB
All I can really tell you about specific fans is that I’m very happy with my Panaflo FBA08A12L1A on an SK7.

 

[Computer Generated Baby]

...While I’m sure that NRG will be along in a while to tell us everything about fans ( CFM’s and dbAs and static pressures and bearing technologies and what the designer’s had for breakfast..)

Can't wait! 8)

I don’t think that you’ll no go far wrong if; At 80mm you go with the Panoflo. (unless you absolutely need speed monitoring) At 92mm a Papst, Panoflo or NMB All I can really tell you about specific fans is that I’m very happy with my Panaflo FBA08A12L1A on an SK7.

Hmmmm.... NMB??? It seems I recall owning a t·o·t·a·l·l·y crappy NMB keyboard about 10 years ago, but maybe they're just da bomB these days in the fan biz. I kinda recall some interesting Pabst fans -- lots of blades and low RPMs but High CFM and I suspect low low noise, but probably expensive. I can likely get any ol' Panaflo in existence locally for dirt cheap.

 

[CougTek]

This might be of some interest. No idea how well it'll cool or how silent the thing will be, but with heatpipes, it shouldn't be too shabby.

 

[GIANT]

This might be of some interest. No idea how well it'll cool or how silent the thing will be, but with heatpipes, it shouldn't be too shabby.

With the exception of the freekin' LED lighting :evil: the GigaByte offering could definitely be a contender. However, I suspect it won't be available for a while.

I was looking more for something available now, and for something not in short supply.

 

[NRG = mc²]

I'm here, as expected

Take a look on www.silentpcreview.com, they have some very good testing procedures for quiet heatsinks, PSUs, etc.

Currently, the Thermalright SLK900U, Zalman CNPS7000AlCu, or Thermalright SLK800U are good choices, in that order.

For fans, a 92mm is ideal as you can get over 35CFM out of one at 23dB - Papst does a good version with those specs, the 3412L, but other than that model, forget Papst - their quality and "quietness" has gone down the drain lately. Their 80mm models have exagerated specifications (i.e. 12dB, 19CFM which is rubbish), are expensive and make a ticking noise especially when undervolted.

The favourite 80mm quiet fan is the Panaflo L1A but its pretty loud for some at 21dB, I know I wouldn't want on my system as it would be by far the loudest component but they are good when undervolted.

Other alternatives are the 24v Panaflo M1A which is around 15dB when run at 12v, or the NMB B19 which is limited supply OEM fan made for Compaq, 15dB, 18CFM.

NMB make the best ball bearings, extremely smooth, remember NMB are a bearing company and make bearings for everything from hard drives to bullet trains and supertankers so their fans are pretty solid things.

I currently use a Zalman CNPS7000A-AlCu at the lowest speed on my XP2400+ and I'm pretty happy with it but even at 20dB its too noisy for me so I use two fanmates in series to turn it down further

 

[blakerwry]

lol, two fanmates ins series??? hahaha....


I think at that point I would just solder a fixed resistor on there and use a single fanmate. $0.10 + $5.00 instead of $5.00 x 2.

 

[blakerwry]

oh yeah, I've had success 5 volting fan mates... that might help you out

 

[NRG = mc²]

Actually I didn't buy a second fanmate, I made it myself with a 1k trimmer and a 7805 regulator... I made a load of them and sold them on ebay Yes I could just 5v one fanmate but this was simpler

 

[blakerwry]

never heard it referred to as a trimmer before...

also, why did you need a regulator?

I've taken a circuits class, but have a pretty basic understanding of electronics components...

A trimmer is the same as a potentiometer or a variable resistor/rheostat, is it not?

given the DC current of 12v, couldn't you simply use a potentiometer to reduce the power going to the fan?

 

[Jan Kivar]

Zalman CNPS7000A-AlCu is the easiest solution. It comes with a FanMate (and a fan...), so it's ready to run out of the box. I haven't tried, but I've read that Zalman's fans have inconsistent quality (e.g. some run with 5 V, some don't), so the quietness is determined on how good Zalman fan You get. It's nearly impossible to replace one, with Dremel one could succeed...

Thermalright has many good HSs. As NRG said, SLK900U should be the best model, although TR has released many newer models. There hasn't been a good review of the new HSs, so maybe they are even better, but one-two degree drop in temp isn't really a big thing.

As for fans, there has been a discussion @ SPCR about the Nexus "Real Silent Case Fan", which seems to be more quiet than any other fan. But, also the air flow is lower. There hasn't been any discussion about using this fan as a CPU fan. Rumours say that this fan is made by NMB. There is only 80 mm version out, but maybe other sizes are on the way soon.

Cheers,

Jan

 

[NRG = mc²]

A trimmer is the same as a potentiometer or a variable resistor/rheostat, is it not?

Yes, the ones which are adjustable with a screwdriver are referred to as trimmers, trimpots or presets.

given the DC current of 12v, couldn't you simply use a potentiometer to reduce the power going to the fan?

I could just use a pot by itself but I know this particular selection of components gives a voltage range of 5 to 10v from min to max, and can handle virtually any fan one can throw at it without overheating while remaining compact in size.

 

[Computer Generated Baby]

never heard it referred to as a trimmer before...

Trimpot. :cyclop:

also, why did you need a regulator?...

A regulator -- and in this application, obviously a voltage regulator as opposed to a current regulator -- can provide a constant voltage in a safe and reliable manner as opposed to the method you are alluding to below.

A voltage regulation circuit has a mix of NPN or PNP transistor(s) and Zener diode(s) to perform this function. You can *very* cheaply buy little voltage regulator packages or you can go through a lot more trouble than it's worth and build a voltage regulator circuit yourself using discrete parts.

given the DC current of 12v, couldn't you simply use a potentiometer to reduce the power going to the fan?

Yes, you could go at it that way with a 1A-rated potentiometer, but the pot will heat up and the voltage output will change as it heats up, meaning that you are going to constantly have to re-tweak your setting as the thermals kick in.

 

[Computer Generated Baby]

Well, I'm to go to some sort of local "Overclocker's / Case Modder's Festival" this weekend.

There will supposedly be every kind of heatsink and cooling solution known to man there.

I'm just wondering if I will need a nose ring, multiple tatoos, and have a skateboard in tow just to be admitted. :roll:

 

[CougTek]

I'm just wondering if I will need a nose ring, multiple tatoos, and have a skateboard in tow just to be admitted. :roll:

Just paint your face like your baby avatar and you should be alright.

 

[Computer Generated Baby]

Well, I went to this local Overclocker's / Case Modder's shindig on Sunday, and indeed did score some goodies.

After driving from southeast Houston to the west Houston (only 45 miles one way), then finally figuring out the way to get to the proper parking lot, I get out of my car just in time to spot some fool doing a burnout in a blaring rice burner a couple of lanes over with a little crowd watching. Hmmm...

I go inside and spot a crowd ogling over all kinds of crapola like neon lighted this and that -- pretty much the expected crapola. I finally spot CPU coolers. Yes, all kinds present -- water kits, air. I finally get the attention of a salezdude. I explain that I'm probably interested in a Swiftech or Thermaltake product. He then goes on to explain to me in a rather "overclocked" speech cadence (i.e. -- caffeinated) that, yo, I'm talking about the good stuff.

They don't have (temporarily out) the exact Thermaltake heatsink I'm interested in, but, I can already tell by looking at a similar unit that it's probably going to be too large, so I'm suddenly less interested in Thermaltake. They do have the Swiftech unit I'm interested in, I look at it and it's PERFECT -- not too wide or too tall.

Looking at the fans, I suddenly notice that they also have a lot of noise killer supplies! Whoopie! Well, I didn't buy any noise suppression stuff, but I did look closely at various Dynamat products and other things. Quite interesting stuff, indeed. I thought their fan prices were a tad too high, so I passed on purchasing any fans, as I wanted to go by another place not too far away (an electronics parts store called Electronic Parts Outlet) that probably had the same parts for less.

So, I buy the Swiftech heatsink for $49, and a small tube of Arctic Silver 5 thermal compound for $5.

Swiftwech MCX478-V P4


Next, I drive over to Electronic Parts Outlet and look through their nice big bins full of all sorts of Panaflo fans and come up with 1-each 92mm low-speed and medium-speed fans for the heatsink and 1-each low-speed and medium-speed 120mm case fans.

 

[CougTek]

This price almost seems too good to be true for the Swiftec. Oh well, great for you.

I should receive this heatsink from the mailman today. Supposed to be very quiet too. There's also a version for the Opteron, but none for the Pentium 4. Cost me 44$CDN with taxes and shipping (about 32.50U$), but if I had waited just a little, I found another place that sold it 2$ lower minutes after I clicked on "yes, empty my pockets".

Anyway, at 54$ plus the fan for the Swiftec, you haven't been ripped off.

 

[blakerwry]

I wondered how that odd fan design would work. Let us know coug.

I'm still sticking with the speeze units... heh, on this new install my CPU is running 4C cooler than it was initially. I guess the paste just had to settle.

 

[CougTek]

As expected, I received it late this morning and also as expected, the bottom is poorly lapped. I won't touch it until this week-end and I don't know at all when I'll a CPU on which to put it. But as soon as I decide myself to get one (eyeing a Barton 2500+ right now), I'll post comments and results.

 

[ddrueding]

The Barton 2500+ is (IMHO) the "no duh" of computer processors. It's incredibly cheap, remarkably available, and virtually guaranteed to be stable @ 11x200 (3200+ speed). I've used about 8 of them now, and they've all hit that no problem. It's to the point where when someone buys something else I have to ask "why?".

 

[NRG = mc²]

I wondered how that odd fan design would work. Let us know coug.

I'm still sticking with the speeze units... heh, on this new install my CPU is running 4C cooler than it was initially. I guess the paste just had to settle.

they are the ribbed/vented Panaflo - supposedly slightly lower noise than the regular ones. It is commonly believed that the SilentBoost is simply a Thermalright SLK800 with a Panaflo on top.

 

[ddrueding]

It is commonly believed that the SilentBoost is simply a Thermalright SLK800 with a Panaflo on top.

not quite, but the design is incredibly close.

The sides are too straight and there is no reinforcement on the ends.

It will be interesting to see how well the ducting works.

 

[P5-133XL]

The Barton 2500+ is (IMHO) the "no duh" of computer processors. It's incredibly cheap, remarkably available, and virtually guaranteed to be stable @ 11x200 (3200+ speed). I've used about 8 of them now, and they've all hit that no problem. It's to the point where when someone buys something else I have to ask "why?".

I've now tried 12 of these 2500+ and I have only had one that would not run properly at 3200+: it ran perfectly at 2500+. I found that folding a gromacs WU using SSE to be a very good test of the CPU's stability. The one that failed at 3200 appeared to work fine but couldn't fold properly at that speed.

 

[Santilli]

CGB:
Great choice. What I like about the swiftech is even if the fan fails, they still suck up a huge amount of heat.

Mine is noisy, MC 462 IIRC, but, it's cooling the hotest chip at the time, the Athlon 1.4 ghz, and, does an excellent job.

7k fan, IIRC.

Guy that makes those fans seems to have it together, and, he's been around for a long time. The difference in his work, and others, is
quite noticeable. Also, your price was about right.
I think that's list. I paid the same.

Enjoy.

gs

 

[Santilli]

CGB:
Great choice. What I like about the swiftech is even if the fan fails, they still suck up a huge amount of heat.

Mine is noisy, MC 462 IIRC, but, it's cooling the hotest chip at the time, the Athlon 1.4 ghz, and, does an excellent job.

7k fan, IIRC.

Guy that makes those heat sinks seems to have it together, and, he's been around for a long time. The difference in his work, and others, is
quite noticeable. Also, your price was about right.
I think that's list. I paid the same.

Enjoy.

gs

 

[e_dawg]

I wondered how that odd fan design would work. Let us know coug.

I have been using 2x Tt SilentBoost HSF's in my desktops for quite a while now (one of them combined with a Tt DuctingMod with the rear case fan blowing cold air straight into the intake side of the duct where the Panaflo LAC ring cage fan is mounted.

Without the DuctingMod, it gives you about 90% of the performance of an SLK-800A + Panaflo L1a at 60% of the cost. An excellent value.

The ring cage fan is fairly quiet, but it is an M1A (medium speed) Panaflo which runs at 2450 rpm, so you do need to use a Zalman Fanmate to slow it down to about 1900 rpm before it becomes virtually silent. You still get good cooling performance at that rpm.

The DuctingMod + rear case fan sucking in cold air from outside knocks 3-5 C off the CPU temp. I can run my overclocked T-bred A 2200 below 50 deg C while crunching WU's in near silence. (I have a Zalman silent PSU in my other desktop -- which came standard with a marvelous NMB fan --, and I replaced the fan on my Antec 300 W PSU in this computer with an L1A Panaflo... much quieter)

FWIW, I find that the PSU is the biggest source of noise in most PC's once you have addressed noisy HSF's. You want quiet computing, a Zalman, Seasonic, or Fortron/FSP derived PSU should be your first purchase.

 

[e_dawg]

can run my overclocked T-bred A 2200 below 50 deg C while crunching WU's in near silence

And BTW, that is using the generic white thermal grease that came with the package.

 

[ddrueding]

Call me paranoid, but I don't like my CPUs passing 40C, even @ full load. My 2500+ @ 2.2Ghz is currently tooling along @ 99F

 

[CougTek]

Bone-lover, did you lapped it?

 

[NRG = mc²]

Yes you are paranoid...

40C is just above human body temperature. I used to run mine more like 65C for over 18 months, painful to touch the heatsink but it never crashed or caused problems. The CPU (an XP1800 Palo) is running happily in a friends machine now.

With the depreciation of CPUs and prices of AMD CPUs, temperature is nothing worth worrying about as long as its below 75. Ask Prof. wizard who used to run his 1.2 T-bird at 80C during summer

 

[ddrueding]

Bone-lover, did you lapped it?

Bone-lover?

No special tricks at all, SLK-900U with a 92mm Panaflo "h" series + Zalman Fanmate, and AS3. I suppose it could be a little quieter, but I can only hear it when I stand up. When seated at my desk it's inaudible.

 

[ddrueding]

40C is just above human body temperature.

Not really, 40C is 104F. Although that is my current body temp (flu), it's definatlyu in the "sick" range.

I do my best to keep the ambient in my case within 2 degrees of room temp, and the CPU under 110 during Prime95.

Though I'll probably be toning this down just a little, it seems I can't get it faster and stable no matter what. I guess a 20% OC will have to do. Swap out the "H" for a "L" and find a really quiet 120mm fan for the exaust.

 

[CougTek]

Bone-lover?

=> e-dawg (e-dog)

I asked because he has two heatsinks similar to the one I just got.

 

[CougTek]

Not really, 40C is 104F.

You're really not feeling well this evening, aren't you? Body temp. is normally 37C, so 40C fits "just above" according to me. Is "just above body temperature" means 37.2C for you?

 

[Computer Generated Baby]

Great choice. What I like about the swiftech is even if the fan fails, they still suck up a huge amount of heat.

Guy that makes those heat sinks seems to have it together, and, he's been around for a long time. The difference in his work, and others, is
quite noticeable. Also, your price was about right.
I think that's list. I paid the same.

With this Swiftech heatsink, I would imagine that my normally-clocked 2.2GHz P4 could go 20 ~ 30 minutes or so without the cooling fan, but then it would have to blow like mad just to get rid of all the absorbed heat. It was a good price for something currently in demand (actually $49.99 + 8.5% sales tax). Also, I for got to mention that I bought some silicone gaskets for case fan as well as power supply mounting surfaces. I will install all of this stuff during the next week or two when I got a spare hour or so. The name of the place is Direct-Tron.

http://www.directron.com/satclearsal.html

As far as other sales events go, I also went to a CompUSA "6 Hour Sale" maybe 3 weeks ago now and bought a 160 GB Seagate Barracuda V PATA hard drive for $69 (after Seagate and CompUSA rebates). I wasn't exactly planning to buy another 160 GB 7200 ATA drive, but the deal was too good to pass up.

I also got a 60 GB external USB2 ("Hi-Speed" USB, of course!) hard drive at the CompUSA sale, once again, for $69 (after manufacturer's and CompUSA rebates). After getting home with the external USB 2 drive, I opened the case up to find a recent-vintage Maxtor 5400 RPM drive inside. Phew! I was hoping like hell that it wasn't a damned Western Digi.

Actually, I would love to have a combo external USB2 / Firewire case with a monster-capacity 300 GB Maxtor MaXLine 5400 RPM hard drive inside just for doing backups and sneakernet data transfers.