Suggestions for new power supply

[jtr1962]

As some of you may know from reading this thread I'm in the market for a new power supply. I'm leaning towards this one as the price is right and it has most of the things I'm looking for (active PFC and fairly silent operation). I know the ones from Thermaltake and Seasonic are better, but I can't afford to drop close to $100 on a power supply now, especially since I'm not even 100% sure the old one is really bad, and this one does seem fairly good for the price. Any other suggestions for something in a similar price range and/or any experiences (good or bad) with this particular power supply? I really won't be stressing the supply as everything in my machine is draws <100 watts total (I measured this with my wattmeter). As such, quoted full-power efficiency figures (65% vs. 80% for the best supplies) aren't really relevant. At the one-third power I'll be running at the efficiency (mostly reduced by resistive losses in MOSFETs and windings) should be on the order of ~85% versus maybe 90% for the better supplies. Or put another way, about 6 or 7 extra watts of heat to get rid of-hardly worth worrying about.

 

[The JoJo]

Haven't used Sparkle, but I have the distinct impression that they are high quality (someone correct me if I'm wrong) ? So therefore, I'd go for it.

 

[Mercutio]

Sparkles are above average but very loud.

 

[Fushigi]

A bit more $ but still nicely under $100. Should be pretty quiet. Antec True Power 330W

 

[blakerwry]

I bought this.

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-103-481&depa=1


$30 after 3 day shipping.


It is quieter than my Antec SL350, about as quiet as my Antec SL300/ smart power 303.

The voltage readings are not as tight as the SL350, but good enough.

Here's what I show with my new mobo:

The Antec SL350 gave me 12v and 5v readings within .2v and .1 v respectively. However, it also costs nearly twice as much.

 

[CougTek]

May I suggest Fortron Source's PSUs? This one looks like a nice unit. 350W and should be fairly quiet with the single 120mm fan. 42$ shipped.

 

[Mercutio]

HEC power supplies are very quiet and inexpensive. That's what most of my PCs have. The 300W ones cost me like $25.

Now that I think of it, I think I can give HEC a supreme testimonial: One of my PCs have 5 hard disks and two optical drives in it, besides the Athlon 2500 and 3 filled DIMM slots, all on a 300W Heirochi PSU.

 

[jtr1962]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone.

The Antec suggested by Fushigi and the Fortron suggested by Cougtek are both interesting, and cost little enough above the one I'm looking at that I would consider either. I'm leaning towards the Fortron as it's a little less and I like the 120mm fan (the one on top of the Antec looks smaller-maybe 90 mm). My only concern is about the fan being on top(bottom?). A 120mm fan is good for noise reduction, no doubt about it, but will the intake be on the bottom or top when it's mounted in a PC? I don't have intake slots in my case above the power supply so if on top it would present a problem (I can cut a hole in my case with a Dremel but I'd rather not).

Merc, any more info on HECs? Where do you get them from?

Blake, that Sparkle supply looks very similar to the one I linked to and is around the same price shipped. If I go with Sparkle I'll consider it.

 

[CougTek]

I'm leaning towards the Fortron as it's a little less and I like the 120mm fan (the one on top of the Antec looks smaller-maybe 90 mm).

Nope, 92mm. 90mm fan, I've never heard about that.

My only concern is about the fan being on top(bottom?). A 120mm fan is good for noise reduction, no doubt about it, but will the intake be on the bottom or top when it's mounted in a PC? I don't have intake slots in my case above the power supply so if on top it would present a problem (I can cut a hole in my case with a Dremel but I'd rather not).

I don't know much enclosures with intakes right above the PSU either. The gnegneneers at Fortron who designed that PSU didn't expect the enclosure to have holes on the top. That's why they've placed (if you look at the positions of the screw holes) the intake fan on the bottom of the PSU, not on top of it.

 

[blakerwry]

The sparkle PSU I linked to is made by fortron. notice the model number... It's very quiet, I think a 120mm fan version wouldn't make a noticable difference.

After palying around with it, I think the PSU I linked is even quieter than the SL300 or pp303x Antec PSUs(which are the quietest PSUs Antec makes).


The 120mm fan on those fortron/sparkle PSUs suck air into the PSU from inside the case(right above the CPU in an ATX board) and force it out the rear.

 

[jtr1962]

I just compared that Sparkle power supply to the original one I linked to. The model numbers are very similar-FSP300-60GRE (yours) versus FSP300-60PFN (mine). Looking at the specs and all the rest, I think the only difference between the two is that mine has active PFC and yours doesn't. Active PFC is definitely something I'm looking for in a power supply as it reduces power line harmonics which can cause interference with other equipment.

You mentioned that your supply is very quiet. My main concern was that a Sparkle supply might be noisy as Merc said. At this point, I'm very close to taking a chance on the supply I found on eBay as it's $3 less shipped than the one you bought and has active PFC. Hopefully it'll be as quiet as yours. Unless anyone here can think of a good reason to talk me out of it (perhaps they saw a very good deal on something equivalent or heard of bad experiences with this particular supply) then I'll probably buy one before the auction closes, which is roughly a day and a half from now. A 120mm fan probably would have sealed the deal completely for me at that price as it might allow me to remove my processor fan since the P/S fan would create strong airflow right above the processors' heat sink. In fact, at $42 I would have probably purchased the Fortron supply Coug linked to if it had active PFC.

 

[The JoJo]

I use only HEC PS with Compucase cases nowadays. The HEC is pretty good, as Merc said.
I just put a 300W PS in my rig, with a barton 2800@3200, 512MB, X15-36lp, Atlas 10k3, 2x cheetah 10k, dvd, cd-rw, cd-rom....

I'd take a HEC, ANTEC, Fortron anyday. Haven't used Sparkle myself, but would probably buy one if needed.

(Changed because it was more quiet than the last PS, wich was an old Antec). I'll probably switch to a bit larger PS in a while though, as the computer doesn't always wake up after a reset/reboot.

 

[e_dawg]

Fortron and Sparkle are both made by FSP group. The brand name doesn't automatically determine the loudness of the PSU's (e.g., Sparkle = loud). They each have their silent models, value model, and high performance models. A FSP with an adjustable speed 120 mm fan is said to be one of the better choices on SPCR because you don't have to rely on the PSU to set the fan speed and thus can control the loudness.

http://www.fsp-group.com.tw/english/05_global_office/global_office.html

http://www.sparklepower.com/proPCPS_ATX.html

The FSP group make PSU's for lots of brand names, including Zalman just to name one.

I wouldn't worry about the noise, as it can always be modified. If the noise killer function works as it's supposed to, the fan speed should be thermally controlled at reasonable levels. Only problem is that you have a low efficiency unit, which will cause the unit to run a little warmer and the fan to run a little faster. In that case, I would recommend replacing the fan with a Panaflo L1A to shut that thing up. An M1A might be safer, but it will not be silent like the L1A.

 

[Jan Kivar]

I'd also recommend the FSP350-60PN (the one CougTek linked). It's very quiet; unless You have a Seagate Barracuda IV/Barracuda V/7200.7, or a drive from the new Samsung series, the HD is going to be louder.

But it lacks Active PFC. This is bit sucky. But to mess your plans, here is the 300 W model for just $27+ shipping. (from NewEgg, but there isn't "free" shipping)

Fortron OEMs their PSUs to many other brands. Normally they'll change the fan; for instance, this supply is also available under the brands of AOpen, Nexus, Coba... Nearly every PSU that has a 120 mm fan is actually made by Fortron (but, e.g. SeaSonic makes their own).

Cheers,

Jan

 

[NRG = mc²]

If you want quiet I'd go with the 300-60PN, the Sparkle/FSP that jtr1962 linked to will likely be pretty loud - many of FSP/SPI's PSUs come with a noise killer with a linear response curve so you usually have the fan running at full speed or close to that within a few minutes of powering up.

What I do with these PSUs is put a 50 ohm resistor in series with the fan to quieten them down and remove the noisekiller PCB all together. But a better bet is the FSP300-60PN as you will get very low noise levels with reasonable airflow.

 

[jtr1962]

You guys are really throwing a monkey wrench in the works here.

If only the FSP350-60PN had active PFC then I would have no good reason not to buy it. It's quiet, has a higher rated power, and is probably more efficient. And the price is right.

What it's starting to come down to is one of three things:

1)Buy the only cheap, decent supply with active PFC that I have found so far (the FSP300-60PFN ), and if noisy take some measures to quiet it down. Price: $27 shipped

2)Forget about PFC and buy the FSP350-60PN. Price: $42 shipped

3)Go for a more expensive supply which has both a 120mm fan and active PFC. I doubt I'll find anything under $75, and this is way more than I want to spend.

Too many choices sucks sometimes.

 

[Bozo]

Why are you so concerned with PFC. Does your power company charge you more if the PF is below 1?

Bozo :mrgrn:

 

[jtr1962]

Why are you so concerned with PFC. Does your power company charge you more if the PF is below 1?

Not now, but in the future with more sophistcated metering they may, and my PC is on a lot. Also, PFC reduces power line harmonics, and these can interfere with other equipment, including the very PC being powered by the power supply. PFC seems like the way of the future, so why not get a power supply that has it?

 

[blakerwry]

Because it simply isn't needed now. And it has it's downsides (cost, availability).

 

[NRG = mc²]

Can you not get hold of the FSP300-60PN (PF)? It has passive PFC but much better than none at all. Some users say that the PF version has a louder fan than the non-PF versions, I haven't been able to test this for myself as I cannot get hold of the non PFC version but even the PFC versions are very quiet.

 

[Bozo]

The effects of a computer power supply on the incoming line to your home or business probably cannot be measured, as far as PF is concerned. To see some effect you would need hundreds of PCs on at the same time. Your refrigerator probably has more effect on the PF than a home PC.


Bozo :mrgrn:

 

[ddrueding]

What about an active PFC, nearly silent 300W PSU for $55 from MikeC @ SPCR?[/url]

I'm considering one myself....

 

[jtr1962]

Very interesting. Only drawbacks are it would come to $65 shipped, and there is no warranty as the PSU has been opened. I wonder where he's getting the stock units from to be able to add a fan, charge a little for the work, and still sell pretty cheaply? That might be the ticket for me-a stock one for $40 to $45. Cheapest one on Pricewatch is $65.75 shipped and eBay doesn't have it.

Barring this, I'm still at the same place I was before.

No luck finding the FSP300-60PN (PF) mentioned by NRG but Newegg has the FSP300-60PN for $32.00 shipped. Another possible choice since it has a 120mm fan like the FSP350-60PN and is $10 less. In fact, at this point in order of preference it's the FSP300-60PN ($32), FSP300-60PFN ($27), and FSP350-60PN ($42). The last one would allow me some additional capacity for more drives, or perhaps a faster M/B and processor combination in the future. The extra $10 over the FSP300-60PN doesn't bother me much. Noise is the main concern keeping me from buying the FSP300-60PFN over the other two as it has active PFC although it probably would not be much noisier than my current supply (which kind of fades into the background under the case fan and hard drives). There's a new auction for these closing January 5, so no big hurry making a decision at this point.

Decisions, decisions...... :eekers:

 

[jtr1962]

Any thoughts on the Seasonic Super Tornado 300w Active PFC Silent Power Supply or the Enlight HPC-360-102? Are either of these auctions overpriced or are there any other issues with either of these? I'm not sure if I would want to spend the $65 shipped that the Seasonic will run but the price is right on the other one ($37.00 shipped).

 

[fool]

There’s a very favourable review of that seasonic on SPCR, and couple of hundred or so posts in their forums talking about inconsistencies with the fans.
IIRC, some of the first units that made it out of retail shops had fans that wouldn’t start, or would buzz like a whole hive of bees, or would be quieter than the grave until such time as they were asked to power any kind of intensive load, at which point the fans would roar into life, and take an absolute age to quieten back down after the computer went back into idle.

Its worth bearing in mind that for many of the people at SPCR anything louder than a gnats fart is unacceptable. And also that when the review originally went up the super tornado seemed to be the perfect PSU, so when the issues with the fan came to light, there was a palpable sense of disappointment.

 

[jtr1962]

Interesting review, and one thing I like about the supply is the total of 8 connectors for IDE devices. My current supply has the usual four, so I had to solder on a few spare plugs I had to power all my devices (3 hard drives, 2 optical drives, and an IDE Zip drive). Nice to know I won't need to do that if I get this supply.

Hopefully the fan problems were fixed by now as the review is almost four months old. Now I'll need to decide if I want to drop $65 on a power supply (actually it'll be a Christmas gift from my mother and she OKed the amount, but I still try to be conservative with other people's money).

 

[blakerwry]

The fortron I got has six or seven 4 pin molex connectors I believe, then two floppy connectors. Also has the Aux connectors and the 4 pin "pentium4" plug.

The antec SL350 has one more molex connector.


4 molex connectors is an atrocity. That is a sign of a lower qulity PSU to begin with. If they're cutting corners on the connectors, chances are they're cutting corners else where too.

 

[jtr1962]

I ended up getting that Seasonic Super Tornado 300w Active PFC Silent Power Supply. Unfortunately, it didn't arrive until yesterday. Very nice supply. I can barely hear it at the power level my PC uses. Total power draw is about 90 watts according to my homemade wattmeter versus 100 or so for the old one thanks to the greater efficiency.

The quiet was a double-edged sword as it gave me a reason to start quieting everything else. First, I dropped the case and microprocessor fans down to about 7 volts with resistors, and checked to make sure temps were acceptable. After that, I tried disconnecting the case fan entirely, and temps hardly rose so I left it unconnected. I literally can't hear anything if I'm more than five feet away. Hard drives seem to be the biggest noise source, but that's relative to everything else. They're still quiet. The microprocessor fan also makes a slight noise but disconnecting it resulting in a BSD after about 3 minutes. Anyway, I'm more than happy with the noise level. When solid state drives come out the machine will be practically silent. I won't hesitate to recommend this power supply.

The new supply cured the random hard drive shutdowns I was experiencing (no need to worry about RMAing drives any more), and seems to have made the system more stable. I'll need a few more days to completely be sure of this, but it seems the occasionally times when the machine just locked up for no apparent reason may have been power supply rather than software related. This supply was well worth the $65 shipped that I paid. It's practically like having a different machine.

 

[CougTek]

When solid state drives come out the machine will be practically silent.

Solid state drives won't come up until several machines away. I wouldn't hold my breath (by risking asphyxia).

 

[ddrueding]

When solid state drives come out the machine will be practically silent.

Solid state drives won't come up until several machines away. I wouldn't hold my breath (by risking asphyxia).

Now that just depends on your capacity and speed requirements...I've built a machine now that runs off a single CF card.

 

[Mercutio]

Er, that's OK for something that doesn't cycle a whole lot, but aren't those cards thought to be limited to just a few thousand rewrites?

 

[ddrueding]

Er, that's OK for something that doesn't cycle a whole lot, but aren't those cards thought to be limited to just a few thousand rewrites?

yup. disabling virtual memory is a really good idea.

 

[Bender]

Blake, that is a niffty and useful utility you have displaying your computer's temperatures and voltages. Does this utility comes with your motherboard or PSU? Where can I get a similar utility like yours for my Abit NF-7S motherboard?

Thanks for your help.
Cheers.

 

[ddrueding]

Blake, that is a niffty and useful utility you have displaying your computer's temperatures and voltages. Does this utility comes with your motherboard or PSU? Where can I get a similar utility like yours for my Abit NF-7S motherboard?

Thanks for your help.
Cheers.

Motherboard Monitor 5 will do that quite well, and it's free

 

[ddrueding]

sorry, link.

 

[Bender]

Thanks for the link :mrgrn: Downloading it now.

Cheers

 

[CityK]

I ended up getting that Seasonic Super Tornado 300w Active PFC Silent Power Supply.

Sounds like a good choice.

I took a look your link to that ebay auction. Love this one:

99% Active PFC Environment Friendly Technology improves Energy Utilization to cut your Electric Bill in Half.

:roll:

And just out of curiousity, whats the significance of "mybluelight" JTR?

 

[jtr1962]

And just out of curiousity, whats the significance of "mybluelight" JTR?

That's just part of the e-mail address for Bluelight, which is my ISP. You pick a user name, and then your e-mail address is yourusername@mybluelight.com. Only $9.99 per month for unlimited access. The only restriction is an automatic timeout after four hours, but then you can just log back on. When cable becomes more affordable, I plan to switch from 56K.

The active PFC only cuts your bill in half if your electric company bills by VA instead of watts. Most residential users are still billed by watts. However, the greater efficiency is saving me about 10 watts or so, which translates into a big $10 or so per year in savings (based of 6000 annual hours, which is about how much my machine is on). Wow, in six and a half years the power supply pays for itself. :mrgrn: Besides, the supply voltages seem rock steady, and within 2% of nominal, so that's another compelling reason besides the low noise to purchase this supply.

 

[CityK]

That's just part of the e-mail address for Bluelight, which is my ISP.

That's what I figured, but thought maybe it was peronalised and somehow connected to your interest with trains

the greater efficiency is saving me about 10 watts or so, which translates into a big $10 or so per year in savings (based of 6000 annual hours, which is about how much my machine is on). Wow, in six and a half years the power supply pays for itself.

You pay ~.17cents/KWh ! Holly-Doodle, NYC is expensive.