UPS Help

LunarMist

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#1
Last night the red "replace battery" LED illuminated on the UPS connected to my main computer system. :( I removed the battery and it appears to be fine, i.e., voltages are normal, no physical indications of failure, nor heat were observed. I reinstalled the battery and pulled the cable out of the wall. The UPS ran fine under load.
 

udaman

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#2
Last night the red "replace battery" LED illuminated on the UPS connected to my main computer system. :( I removed the battery and it appears to be fine, i.e., voltages are normal, no physical indications of failure, nor heat were observed. I reinstalled the battery and pulled the cable out of the wall. The UPS ran fine under load.
While neither dd or howell need it given their rapid fire blogger style short post responses, I think Handy needs to increase the time to edit post to at least one day for most of us here :D.

Was there a question here; or are you just making statements, observations?

Perhaps Lost can translate for me? :p
 

LunarMist

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#3
I question whether the battery is truly defective. Is it possible that something is wrong with the UPS? I hesitate to get another battery. It is a major hassle to dispose of batteries since it would be a 25 mile drive a least.
 
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#4
I think UPSes are just crap as far as QC is concerned. I've run quite a few Belkin/APC models from the basic to moderate size. They all fail way before I think they should. Even when used to ~30% of their capacity and never experiencing an outage.
 

Bozo

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#5
You might try running on the battery until it is down to about 10%. Then let it recharge. Most likely it will be fine after that.

Bozo :joker:
 

LunarMist

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#6
The beeping every few hours is driving me nuts. :( I closed the master bedroom door and the computer room door last night around 2AM.

You might try running on the battery until it is down to about 10%. Then let it recharge. Most likely it will be fine after that.

Bozo :joker:
Thanks. I'll try discharging and then recharging the UPS.
 

LunarMist

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#7
Well that only worked for a couple of days. :( I bought a replacement battery locally. However, it does not seem to run very long. I may have too many devices plugged in compared to few years ago. What should the run time be for a UPS under load? Thanks.
 

Bozo

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#8
Well that only worked for a couple of days. :( I bought a replacement battery locally. However, it does not seem to run very long. I may have too many devices plugged in compared to few years ago. What should the run time be for a UPS under load? Thanks.
The run time under load is dependant on the load. Light load=long time. Heavy load=short time.
The UPS's web site shoud give you an idea of how long it should last based on load.

Bozo :joker:
 

LunarMist

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#9
Yes, of course. My question is: What is a reasonable compromise for the health and longevity of the UPS/battery or does it make little difference?
 

Fushigi

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#10
I just bought a pair of those myself to replace the batteries in my BackUPS Pro 1100. 2 for about $90 was more than I wanted to pay but still cheaper than buying a new UPS, not to mention it keeps the old one out of the landfill for a few more years.
 

blakerwry

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#11
If the UPS can't run at least 1 minute on battery power, then it sounds overloaded.

You never mention what UPS you had, so it's hard to tell what a reasonable expectation is.... For example, APC makes a single PC (office, soho grade) smart UPS ~220, 250, 500, and 550.... they all use the same battery... so, theoretically they'd all last the same amount of time if loaded equally. However, the 550 supposedly could be loaded more heavily (assuming the rating isn't over inflated), which would give you a much shorter run time at 50% load vs the 250VA @ 50% load.
 

LunarMist

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#12
Thanks. The UPS is a Conext 900 AVR which originally had an APS battery installed. After a full charge the runs times are 3.6 min. to the urgent beeping (low battery) and 5.3 minutes to cutoff. I suppose that is a reasonable drain. A longer run time would require a larger UPS and this one is heavy enough with one >9 lb. battery. ;) I have another UPS of the same model trapped behind a TV. When it needs a new battery I will have to buy a new TV for the living room. :)

As Fugishi mentioned above, I'd rather replace the battery than the entire unit, since the store takes the old battery for recycling.
 

LunarMist

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#13
So we bought a new UPS, the APC XS 1300LCD, and it is charging now. I hope it is a decent UPS for the purpose. What do you think of that for all my hard drives? Are the power readings and run times accurate?
 
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#14
I'm generally satisfied with the APC units. My only complaint with them is that when their battery dies (usually several years), there isn't any notification. It just fails to keep the system running. For really important stuff I have put two in series before, testing them regularly.
 

MaxBurn

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#16
Emerson Network Power, formerly named Liebert. Skip the powershure interactive and go up to the GXT true on line stuff with PFC.

I work for them but I use the product too and my personal GXT's are good quality products. Seven years or so ago I even serviced the big stuff 15kVA up to 1.1mVA.

Remember, you get what you pay for.
 

LunarMist

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#17
The UPS was $126 — probably about what it is worth. The run time is 19 minutes, which is much better than 5 minutes on the old UPS. :) The time remaining display is nice and I especially like the ability to turn off the annoying beeper. ;)

The only remaining question is how much power it uses when there is no load. The display indicates 0W, but that is measured from the output side.
 

LunarMist

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#18
I generally buy TrippLite UPSes, because they're a Chicago company, which means I'm supporting the local guys and also because anything I order from them I get next day.
My oldest UPS is a TrippLite from about 11 years ago. The batteries were replaced once, but it works great for Cable box/TV/Video/DVR. Unfortunately it is only 650VA and too small for my current computer setup, but has a good run time.

I also have a TrippLite 12V power inverter, purchased about 30 years ago. Small and lightweight it ain't. ;)
 

MaxBurn

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#19
Can you switch the display through readings to see the input current? Or put it on the LAN and look at the web page for those readings? Only other thing that comes to mind is a kill a watt meter or regular multi meter with AC amp clamp.
 

Handruin

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#20
Max, do you have a URL to the products you mentioned? I searched for them earlier today on what I thought was "Emerson Network Power", but couldn't find any UPSs.
 

LunarMist

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#26
No. I was replying to Maxbun's post. No settings report the input data. The Kill-O-watt was useless, dying after minimal use. I don't think a clamp would be very accurate at the low power levels. Is there something better than the K*O*W, but not in the typical >$100 range?
 

MaxBurn

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#30
All products are under the old name here:

http://www.liebert.com/product_pages/Products.aspx

I have no idea why they changed the name other than Emerson parent company asserting Emerson brand recognition and not realizing that Liebert has the superior brand recognition for the market. They actually went back on the decision and everything is dual branded now. :rolleyes:

Liebert? Was that thwe copmpanty sellling the carzy high-end gear that went bust awhilw back?
Nope, actually we are one of Emerson's top performers according to the meetings I get to attend at my level. Liebert is very much attuned to data center large box support but not really appropriate for a home user. There is a decent amount of competition at this level but we have the best field force out there bar none.
 

MaxBurn

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#31
No. I was replying to Maxbun's post. No settings report the input data. The Kill-O-watt was useless, dying after minimal use. I don't think a clamp would be very accurate at the low power levels. Is there something better than the K*O*W, but not in the typical >$100 range?
Check into Fluke meters, you might be able to pick up some stuff used on ebay in a going out of business sale. A really good meter is a must for me and the amp clamps can't be that hard to find. Off brands must abound cheaper too but I am a believer in Fluke instruments.
 

LunarMist

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#32
I've been using Flukes since the 70's. How sensitive are the clamps? The Fluke meter I still have is from the early 90's. I paid around $400 for it at the time. It has not been used since the accident.
 

LunarMist

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#34
I'm generally satisfied with the APC units. My only complaint with them is that when their battery dies (usually several years), there isn't any notification. It just fails to keep the system running. For really important stuff I have put two in series before, testing them regularly.
How well does that work out? I assume that the first UPS, connected to the wall, generates power first in the event of a blackout and then the second one engages after the first one is depleted. However, the second unit would be receiving a charge input from the first UPS in addition to the pass through, which could be problematic if the waveform is dirty. Are these near-true sine wave units or stepped types?
 
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#35
How well does that work out? I assume that the first UPS, connected to the wall, generates power first in the event of a blackout and then the second one engages after the first one is depleted. However, the second unit would be receiving a charge input from the first UPS in addition to the pass through, which could be problematic if the waveform is dirty. Are these near-true sine wave units or stepped types?
These are just regular APCs. So probably the cheapest there are. Probably not a best/recommended practice, but I do it anyway.
 

MaxBurn

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#36
Well it works but is pretty inefficient and you don't get the full rating of the second unit. You may actually over current the first unit after a discharge too as the second UPS is powering the load plus charging batteries. Properly done the first UPS would have to be rated bigger than the second one. Some data centers do this for their "tier one" critical stuff but we are talking a facility with several 1MVA UPS's and several racks with 1500VA units feeding life safety equipment like phones and network swtiches.

Almost all off line UPS's generate square waves when operating on batteries, pretty dirty power but it will due in a loss of power situation. Depending on quality they may not even have an output filter to attempt to straighten it out. Compare that to a true on line unit that generates somewhere around two to six square waves, puts those together to look like a steppy sine wave and runs that through an output filter to look pretty close to a square wave.

Which brings me to capacitors, electrolytic capacitors in very general laymens terms are similar to batteries in that they don't last forever and contain chemicals and plates etc. I wouldn't replace the battery in any of these things more than once, by the time it needs that second set of replacement batteries it needs caps too, AC input and output filter plus DC bus caps for true on line units.
 

LunarMist

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#37
I won't waste money and power on such a setup. It would be better to buy a higher line UPS, than the consumer types? What is the cheapest good quality UPS?
 

Pradeep

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#38
A true double-conversion online UPS is best (no switching delay) and there are some affordable units out there. Cost wise get the biggest that your AC outlet can deliver.
 

LunarMist

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#40
That is not econonomically feasible in my workroom. I think it was meant to be a bedroom. The two accessible receptacles on adjacent walls are sharing a circuit. For example, fluorescent lights briefly flicker a bit when a high load is applied.
 
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