UPS Help

BingBangBop

Storage is cool
Joined
Nov 15, 2009
Messages
667
I used mine with a "custom" 30a plug to 15a plug extension cord I made. I can't remember if it was a 3kva or a 2kva unit.
Firetrap! There is a good reason that code enforcement requires special plugs for high amperage or high voltage devices: To prevent electrical fires caused by attempting to draw more current than the wiring can support thereby causing them to get hot and start fires.

If you get a device that won't work on a standard 120v plug invest the money to create a dedicated high current circuit rather than jury-rigging an extension cord. It's just outright safer.
 

MaxBurn

Storage Is My Life
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Messages
3,243
Location
SC
I should clarify I knew I would never come even close to 15 amps on that circuit. You are right and I had the potential to overload the circuit with that UPS but then I still was pulling the same exact less than 4 amps from the circuit with that UPS as I am now. Back when I had the stereo on that too I couldn't really even get close to 10 amps with everything turned on, something I don't do. Don't do this at home, hold my beer etc.
 
Joined
Feb 4, 2002
Messages
19,312
Location
Monterey, CA
It isn't a firetrap if the breaker is the lightest-rated component. 12/2 is 20A, as is the plug, so the breaker is 20A. Trying to put a 50A load on that circuit, even if I resort to modding cables, just invites tripping the breaker, not starting fires.

That said, I chose the 2kva unit over the 3kva unit as it uses a standard plug.
 

DrunkenBastard

Storage is cool
Joined
Jan 21, 2002
Messages
634
Location
on the floor
No, it just shut off in the middle of the night. The situation is very complicated because there are over a dozen companies in 8 countries involved in the project. Normally I don't have to buy equipment because the contract facility buys it for the site, but time was critical. The site set up their own computers and bought the UPS units. That room has no general UPS backup power because there is a generator. Of course that is of no use if the UPS shuts off by itself. Frankly all this trivial hardware stuff should not be my problem, but naturally my part of the project timeline is suddenly on the critical path and highly visible globally.
Sounds like a horror show. For critical infrastructure I would spec workstations/servers with dual power supplies, A side on one UPS, B side on another. Ideally those then powered by two generators. Of course there's probably some equipment that doesn't allow for that. Hope you aren't left holding the bag in front of a high profile audience.
 

MaxBurn

Storage Is My Life
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Messages
3,243
Location
SC
Many places do that tiered setup but a lot get a static switch setup too because it supports all the single corded equipment.
 
Joined
Feb 4, 2002
Messages
19,312
Location
Monterey, CA
Just switched to a Liebert/Emerson GXT3 2kV for the house. The fan is super-loud at the moment, I'm hoping that the fan actually stops when the batteries are charged and the system is running at a relatively low load (~450VA)?
 
Joined
Feb 4, 2002
Messages
19,312
Location
Monterey, CA
Grr...won't be able to use it here, even in the rack with the door closed it is by far the noisiest thing. I don't mind if the fan kicks on while the power is out, or even during particularly heavy load, but this won't do.

Does the fan turn off with any of the "on-line/interactive" units from your company?
 

MaxBurn

Storage Is My Life
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Messages
3,243
Location
SC
None I am aware of but I only happen to have had several GXT units, I don't get much exposure to them in my job.
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
14,972
Location
USA
I prefer the standard wiring of the 1.5KVA units. With external batteries you have enough power for long run times and the fans are not loud when not on battery. Maybe get two systems for capacity and even more redundancy.
 

sdbardwick

Storage is cool
Joined
Mar 12, 2004
Messages
557
Location
North San Diego County
I'm confused as to the confusion. Line-interactive != on-line
On-line always powers equipment via the inverter (hence the need for continuous cooling for it [and the rectifier]); the inverter input source is either the rectifier when AC is present or the battery when AC not present.
 
Joined
Feb 4, 2002
Messages
19,312
Location
Monterey, CA
I'm confused as to the confusion. Line-interactive != on-line
On-line always powers equipment via the inverter (hence the need for continuous cooling for it [and the rectifier]); the inverter input source is either the rectifier when AC is present or the battery when AC not present.
That clarifies my confusion. Thanks!

Now I need to go and read up on the differences, I was under the impression that they were the same thing.
 

MaxBurn

Storage Is My Life
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Messages
3,243
Location
SC
Stupid product marketing needs definitions for each manufacturer but a true on line UPS has AC-DC-AC conversion. Hopefully some power factor conversion on the input side to play well with the rest of the building and help the electric bill out as well.
 
Joined
Feb 4, 2002
Messages
19,312
Location
Monterey, CA
The APC SmartUPS SMX 1000 with two 2U battery add-on modules will give all my gear (~3A) 200+ minutes of runtime according to the interface. If there is an outage that lasts longer than that, I have more to worry about than not being able to surf the web or listen to music.
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
14,972
Location
USA
The run time of the new UPS was 32 minutes with a 32' TV, cable, DVDR, speakers, telephone, clock, etc. and one computer (only the 3.6GHz quadratic core and three HDs), but no monitor. There is a fairly noisy fan which only runs when the AC is off, so I can live with that.

The external battery pack has about twice the capacity of the internals, so it will have about 3x total capacity (~540 WH if I calculate correctly). According to the UPS (shipping) the battery is taking the long route and it probably won't arrive this week. :( Air shipping would have cost as much as the product, UPS and batteries are so damned heavy.

I'm thinking about plugging both computers, all the hard drives, and the one monitor into the new UPS with external battery pack. I'm not quite sure if it can handle the maximum load, but it's not like I would be stressing the CPUs on both machines with foldings or using a benchmark at 100% all day. The run time should be fine since I'd only be using one system if the power conked out anyway. Then I'll connect the TV, etc. to the one good APC with the new batteries.
The UPS finally quit. The battery light was on, then there was some intermittent beeping, and now it shuts off after a few minutes.
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
14,972
Location
USA
The external box has 4x CP1270 batteries. I suppose they can be replaced easily. The internals are a different brand, but have the same dimensions.
A quick online search indicates numerous batteries are available with 7, 7.5,8 or even 9 Ah in the same size with the F2 terminals.
Does the capacity really matter? I'd expect the higher values are mostly marketing BS or they have a reduced service life.
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
14,972
Location
USA
I connected a couple of batteries from another UPS externally and it seems to work. I can get 8Ah batteries within a 15km radius.
The software is abominable, so I'm thinking about putting some sort of simple external voltage display on the external battery case.
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
14,972
Location
USA
Damn all those batteries are heavy. I think I strained an organ. :(
The wires inside the UPS are about 1/2 inch too short for the connectors to easily slip on, making it a major PITA.
The external battery pack is not expected to have the batteries replaced, but that is much easier than the UPS proper and there is nothing else inside but the wires and a couple of fuses.
All of the batteries had the same batch number and I made the battery dude check the voltage to ensure they were all charged. I hope this is the end of it for a few years now.
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
14,972
Location
USA
Does it still play or will you need to replace some of the pipes?
It's somewhat better, but there is still some tenderness after about mile 7.

Meanwhile, what is the thought on the cheapie voltage display modules? I see several for about $10 on the Amazons, but have concern that they will short out and cause grief or even a fire.
 

Striker

Learning Storage Performance
Joined
Sep 17, 2007
Messages
269
I don't know why I still click on Lunar's links after being trolled every time.
I think it is the anticipation, maybe this time he got it right.
 

Handruin

Administrator
Joined
Jan 13, 2002
Messages
12,887
Location
USA
I always hover over his links. Not sure what you're doing to cause these link loopbacks but so far as I can recall you're the only one who has this issue. I think maybe once David admitted to doing it on accident while PUI.
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
14,972
Location
USA
It's somewhat better, but there is still some tenderness after about mile 7.

Meanwhile, what is the thought on the cheapie voltage display modules? I see several for about $10 on the Amazons, but have concern that they will short out and cause grief or even a fire.
 

Stereodude

Not really a
Joined
Jan 22, 2002
Messages
10,277
Location
Michigan
Your link almost works. You're making progress. Why do you think it will short out or cause a fire? Lots of cheap electronics are reasonably reliable.
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
14,972
Location
USA
Mainly I am concerned about 24/7 connection to batteries. Maybe I'll just put a switch on it. I really should use a separate low current supply and filter the sense input.
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
14,972
Location
USA
It's somewhat better, but there is still some tenderness after about mile 7.

Meanwhile, what is the thought on the cheapie voltage display modules? I see several for about $10 on the Amazons, but have concern that they will short out and cause grief or even a fire.
So the link looks normal when quoting it? There is no logic.

202468.png
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
14,972
Location
USA
I received a different display module and mounted it into the external battery case with several levels of protection.
The reading fluctuates when it reaches 27.0V. I'm not sure how a UPS charges, but perhaps there is some pulsed float mode?
Finally I will be able to see the voltage drop during the power failures and have some estimate of the remaining capacity.
 
Top