UPS Help

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
14,972
Location
USA
So I finally discovered that the Javas must be installed for the PowerAlert to run. Why is there no simple error message that makes it clear to ordinary users? "Error 0" is not very helpful. :cursin:

After all that, the fancy software has plenty of control options and shows various info and status, but does not show the remaining run time. :frusty:
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
14,972
Location
USA
Do you have that many power outages?
Power outages other than the 1-second variety are not that frequent, but they tend to be long. On average there are maybe 4-5 outages over 2 hours per year and 1-2 of those are over 8 hours. Sometimes there is a 1-hour failure and power returns, but then goes out again a couple of hours later. Of course the UPS does not recharge enough during the up time in between.
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
14,972
Location
USA
I have reorganized and connected everything to the one UPS. How do I know what the load is and how close it is to overload? Should I just trust the unit?
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
14,972
Location
USA
I could plug the UPS into the KW device and subtract the no load power consumed by the UPS, but I meant measuring the load on batteries. Can I assume that the load when mains AC is working is the same as the load when UPS is running on batteries?
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
14,972
Location
USA
I don't think you would be that far off. The alternative would be to connect the KW between the UPS and all your devices using power strip(s).
There are about 25 AC devices so it is not feasible to measure power on the output side. ;)
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
14,972
Location
USA
According to the Killawatt device the max sustained load is around 960W running Linpack, including the 82 watts from the UPS, so that would be ~880W the UPS needs to supply. Realistically the power needed won't be that much. Power usage is about 610W (including the UPS) when everything is on, but idling. I suspect the UPS drain will decrease somewhat when the batteries are completely charged.
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
14,972
Location
USA
Then don't worry about it. The consumption of the device itself, particularly when the battery is fully charged, is going to be very small.
I had a long, slow cross post. :) I'm not sure how long it takes to charge all 6 batteries, but it is probably an overnight activity from a full discharge.
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
14,972
Location
USA
So I tested it under high load on UPS batteries for 5 minutes. Nothing exploded. :D The fan blows a goodly amount of heat. ;)
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
14,972
Location
USA
Run time for the main computer plus monitor and separately having the 32" TV, etc. on was 48 minutes. For the secondary computer and monitor without TV on it should last about 75 minutes. I think that is fine for what it is. Charge time for the 6 batteries was exactly 10 hours which is not too bad. The main charge ends when the battery reaches 27.6-27.8V and then is maintained about 27.0V at a trickle.
 

time

Storage? I am Storage!
Joined
Jan 18, 2002
Messages
4,801
Location
Brisbane, Oz
I think I'll just hijack this somewhat long-winded thread. ;)

A client has a UPS that I don't know anything about. I can't get to see it in the flesh, but the label says APC Smart UPS 3000 and it's about the size of a mid-tower PC. The top of the front is angled back, and it appears to have 4 vertical LED strips, with two buttons in a column in the middle.

I'm trying to have a guess about its age, with a view to whether or not it most likely needs new batteries or even complete replacement.
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
14,972
Location
USA
I think I'll just hijack this somewhat long-winded thread. ;)

A client has a UPS that I don't know anything about. I can't get to see it in the flesh, but the label says APC Smart UPS 3000 and it's about the size of a mid-tower PC. The top of the front is angled back, and it appears to have 4 vertical LED strips, with two buttons in a column in the middle.

I'm trying to have a guess about its age, with a view to whether or not it most likely needs new batteries or even complete replacement.
Maybe it is this one? If so it uses RBC55 which should be readily available.
 

time

Storage? I am Storage!
Joined
Jan 18, 2002
Messages
4,801
Location
Brisbane, Oz
Yep, that looks like it alright. 53kg, phew! Would 4 years old sound about right?

Did battery life expectancy some up as part of this thread somewhere?
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
14,972
Location
USA
Yep, that looks like it alright. 53kg, phew! Would 4 years old sound about right?

Did battery life expectancy some up as part of this thread somewhere?
It is pretty much 3-5 years if the UPS is operating normally and there are only a few outages. Depending on the USP model and software, the battery change date can be programmed in (and would have been at the factory), so it may be possible to obtain that info without physically inspecting the UPS. Many companies put service stickers on the front of each UPS with the date installed and battery replacement due dates.
 
Joined
Feb 4, 2002
Messages
19,312
Location
Monterey, CA
Grr...for some reason when it rains my APC 1500 alternates rapidly into "Advanced Voltage Regulation" and back to normal. Sounds like it's doing it at 60Hz. The reported load on the device triples (taking it beyond 100%) and the battery slowly depletes.

I now have an Emerson/Liebert GXT3 2000VA unit on the way, hopefully it won't have this problem. At the very least I'll split my load further so they'll stay within capacity.
 
Joined
Feb 4, 2002
Messages
19,312
Location
Monterey, CA
I'll try that. I've noticed that it does calm down if I reduce the load significantly (from ~600W to ~200W. When it isn't screwing up, even with the full load, it shows as ~50% capacity.
 
Joined
Feb 4, 2002
Messages
19,312
Location
Monterey, CA
What's it do if you unplug it while that is going on?
Unplugging the UPS Stops the psycho AVR and it just enters battery mode. I noticed it doesn't just happen when it's raining anymore, and now it is happening even with the lower load. What a piece of crap.

I'll try and log into it and check the logs, maybe widen the range for the AVR.
 
Joined
Feb 4, 2002
Messages
19,312
Location
Monterey, CA
I logged in and changed the "power quality sensitivity" to "low" and the high/low "transfer voltage" to 128/105 respectively.

Of course, the voltage is 121.6 +/-0.5v and has been for as long as I've had the unit (3 months?)
 

Handruin

Administrator
Joined
Jan 13, 2002
Messages
12,887
Location
USA
Faulty wiring or some kind of ground loop? Is it reproducible with minimal load while plugged in? Can you bring it to work and reproduce the issue there?
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
14,972
Location
USA
I'm not sure what is up with APC lately. We just had one of their fancier continuous regulated units die after less than a week out of the box. :mad: Several hundred $K of my equipment was connected to it.
 
Joined
Feb 4, 2002
Messages
19,312
Location
Monterey, CA
Faulty wiring or some kind of ground loop? Is it reproducible with minimal load while plugged in? Can you bring it to work and reproduce the issue there?
I'm certain the wiring is solid; there is a single 12/2 from a dedicated GFCI 20A circuit breaker to a single GFCI 20A outlet that only has this single UPS connected to it. As soon as the replacement arrives (Liebert GXT3 2000RT120 shipped 10/5) I'll take this one to work and try to make it fail.

BTW, all self-tests pass.
 

DrunkenBastard

Storage is cool
Joined
Jan 21, 2002
Messages
634
Location
on the floor
I'm not sure what is up with APC lately. We just had one of their fancier continuous regulated units die after less than a week out of the box. :mad: Several hundred $K of my equipment was connected to it.
I'm assuming it didn't take your equipment out in terms of damage when it went lights out for the final time? If one has the choice then a Liebert is probably a better bet.
 

Handruin

Administrator
Joined
Jan 13, 2002
Messages
12,887
Location
USA
I'm certain the wiring is solid; there is a single 12/2 from a dedicated GFCI 20A circuit breaker to a single GFCI 20A outlet that only has this single UPS connected to it. As soon as the replacement arrives (Liebert GXT3 2000RT120 shipped 10/5) I'll take this one to work and try to make it fail.

BTW, all self-tests pass.
That Liebert sounds like it's higher than the standard 15A outlet and plug should handle. I know you said you have 20A circuits, but does that unit use the standard plug or the NEMA 5-20 or NEMA 5-30?
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
14,972
Location
USA
I'm assuming it didn't take your equipment out in terms of damage when it went lights out for the final time? If one has the choice then a Liebert is probably a better bet.
No, it just shut off in the middle of the night. The situation is very complicated because there are over a dozen companies in 8 countries involved in the project. Normally I don't have to buy equipment because the contract facility buys it for the site, but time was critical. The site set up their own computers and bought the UPS units. That room has no general UPS backup power because there is a generator. Of course that is of no use if the UPS shuts off by itself. Frankly all this trivial hardware stuff should not be my problem, but naturally my part of the project timeline is suddenly on the critical path and highly visible globally.
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
14,972
Location
USA
That Liebert sounds like it's higher than the standard 15A outlet and plug should handle. I know you said you have 20A circuits, but does that unit use the standard plug or the NEMA 5-20 or NEMA 5-30?
Oh my. I hope it is wired to code.
 

MaxBurn

Storage Is My Life
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Messages
3,243
Location
SC
I used mine with a "custom" 30a plug to 15a plug extension cord I made. I can't remember if it was a 3kva or a 2kva unit. My current 1kva unit with a 15a plug is much more suited to the couple pc's and rack of networking equipment on it. Even so runs about half load.

You should think about getting a web card for it.
http://demos.liebert.com/
Apparently we are having a little network trouble at the moment though. You can see my home unit here
here
 
Top