Where to buy QuietZone Solserene

[ddrueding]

I want to buy this. It is obviously an easy DIY install, but I can't find a single place with it listed for sale.

I know the core is just fiberglass panels, but the part I care about is the retention track and seamless fabric.

Hours of Googling has gotten me nowhere. Can anyone here help?

 

[Howell]

Hours of Googling?! Call Owens Corning. They have a vested interest in helping you buy it.

 

[Stereodude]

Why? :erm:

Fiberglass is fiberglass when put in a wall assembly for noise reduction purposes. This is hashed over time and time again on AVSforum in the Dedicated Theater Design & Construction section. Even Owens Corning doesn't make any claims that it's better than any other insulation for the job. Wall construction is far more important then the type of insulation. A stagger stud wall or clips + RC will make a far larger improvement especially when used with GreenGlue & 2 layers of 5/8" drywall.

 

[ddrueding]

Why? :erm:

I know the core is just fiberglass panels, but the part I care about is the retention track and seamless fabric.

I've already blocked massive amounts of sound transmission into the room, using 3" of expanding foam insulation and one of these. Now I want to make it acoustically dead internally. Not good for recording or listening, dead. Anechoic chamber dead if possible. Putting up hard sheetrock will not achieve this goal.

In order to be accepted by the wife, it needs to look good and normal. After doing all the things I have and will do, I need a smooth, complete finish. The best way I can see to accomplish this is to use the massive seamless sheets of self-locking fabric available as part of the Solserene system. Using the mounting track that they offer will make the whole thing much easier.

 

[Stereodude]

Well, to be blunt, I don't think you have the slightest clue of what you're doing and you haven't done the necessary research before diving in.

1) Expanding foam insulation is bad for sound isolation.
2) You definitely need to close the wall with drywall. Two layers of 5/8" drywall with GreenGlue that is decoupled (via clips + RC or stagger stud construction) is necessary to keep outside noise from getting in or inside noise from getting out.
3) In order to achieve the 2nd part of your goal you need to place material with a high acoustic absorption coefficients (like OC703 or OC705) on top of the drywall and then cover that with fabric. I would look at the FabricMate System for the fabric track part.

Keep in mind you won't get anything like an anechoic chamber unless you are willing to give up 6+ inches on every wall + ceiling for the right sort of acoustically absorbent material. The thickness of the material determines how low of a frequency it will absorb rather than reflect. Further, should you manage to get close to creating an anechoic chamber you'll find the room very disconcerting to spend any time in and your wife will have you removing all your work in short order.

Have you ever been in a anechoic chamber?

 

[LunarMist]

Well, to be blunt, I don't think you have the slightest clue of what you're doing and you haven't done the necessary research before diving in.

Well, that is David. How is it different from many of his other entertaining endeavors?

 

[Stereodude]

Well, that is David. How is it different from many of his other entertaining endeavors?

It's not. :bglaugh:

 

[ddrueding]

The house is a really big toy, knowing what I'm doing is second to the experience.

And I am learning as I go, the last time you mentioned green glue I read about that for an hour. It does indeed look like the best way to stop sound from going through a wall. On my own I had learned of the quietzone stuff, and Googling based on that hadn't led to any related/competing products. I mention it here and you bring up OC703 and FabricMate (thanks) which I hadn't seen before.

Now, what I currently have is a room where the wall cavities are filled with closed-cell foam insulation and have no sheetrock. The room is much quieter than the others in the house, no echo, and sound doesn't travel as well. There also isn't any of the noise from the street that the other rooms experience. I know the best solution would be to but up the double layer of 5/8" type-X with the green glue and then start putting layers of 703 to taste and then cover that with the fabric, but I can't shrink the wall by that much. All I'm trying to do is extend/enhance the characteristics I have to the finished room.

I spent some time in anechoic chambers while I was working at Dolby Labs, and am aware of the extreme measures required to achieve the "absolute" standard that they needed. Building computers for those rooms was the thing that got me into silent computing in the first place. Achieving that is obviously not possible, though I enjoyed my time there.

 

[time]

Thermal insulation like fiberglass or expanded foam work by trapping as much air as possible. Obviously, this isn't so good for sound insulation, although sticking anything between the walls - even expanded foam - is better than air by itself.

I think there's too much emphasis on trying to 'decouple' surfaces, based on the observation that you can't feel vibration through loosely coupled objects. This doesn't work as well with audible sound, where it's really a question of how much a material can be made to vibrate at a given frequency.

For instance, it's easy to stop high frequency sounds with relatively light materials, but incredibly difficult to stop 30Hz sounds from 16ft organ pipes. The lower the frequency, the more massive your materials need to be.

This is all widely known, but for some reason people (including me) seem to think it doesn't apply in their own case, and they need only add some magical coating or something.

I haven't read up on green glue, but I'll bet you could achieve the same effect with any dense adhesive. Tar, for instance, is widely used in automotive applications. The important part will be the fact that you're creating a laminated material, more than the glue itself. A quick search shows that you can buy ready-made laminated drywall for noise reduction purposes.

The best way to achieve what Ddrueding wants is to line the walls with carpet. Carpet's pretty damn heavy and has a highly irregular surface. Usually glued, but that creates huge problems if you need to repair a small part of the wall. It would be interesting to try a tackless strip along the top of the wall and hang the carpet from it, but you'd still need large-headed screws to hold it in position. You could even put up underlay first, the good stuff is pretty heavy and very undulated - might even be latex rubber?

Despite Stereodude's attention to detail in his design, I think he's completely missed the obvious area where noise is going to be the biggest problem: the ceiling. It will definitely suck to be in his house when he has his 4800W subwoofers in full cry.

 

[ddrueding]

The best way to achieve what Ddrueding wants is to line the walls with carpet.

While I agree that it would seem to be an effective solution, I'm having a hard enough time selling the wife on a fabric that at least looks like a normal wall from a distance. I may end up having to going with the dual-layer 5/8 just because it would look normal.

 

[Howell]

Carpet..... or heavy curtains which can be pushed into a corner or tied back when not in use.

The idea is to get rid of the uniform highly reflective surfaces. You are going to have the most problems with the ceiling and floor. At a certain point even the coffee table and bookshelves are going to be a problem for you. How tall are the ceilings in there?

 

[ddrueding]

8'

 

[time]

There's no use sugar-coating it: flat 8' ceilings suck acoustically, you've got a guaranteed resonance around 125Hz that's really hard to suppress (2nd harmonic of low C on a bass guitar). Certainly, thick carpet on the floor is a must.

I had this in mind when I built my last house, so made sure the relevant ceiling was sloped, i.e. 'cathedral'. One of the side walls was exposed tumbled bricks, which although reflective did present a highly irregular surface.

Could you get away with treating just one wall? One of each pair of facing surfaces would still have a serious dampening effect. If you can't have anything else, just go the (heavy) curtain route. It won't stop noise, but it will help dampen reflections.

 

[Stereodude]

Now, what I currently have is a room where the wall cavities are filled with closed-cell foam insulation and have no sheetrock. The room is much quieter than the others in the house, no echo, and sound doesn't travel as well. There also isn't any of the noise from the street that the other rooms experience. I know the best solution would be to but up the double layer of 5/8" type-X with the green glue and then start putting layers of 703 to taste and then cover that with the fabric, but I can't shrink the wall by that much. All I'm trying to do is extend/enhance the characteristics I have to the finished room.

You may want to consult the building code, but I doubt you're allowed by code to have open studs in a room.

 

[Stereodude]

I haven't read up on green glue, but I'll bet you could achieve the same effect with any dense adhesive. Tar, for instance, is widely used in automotive applications. The important part will be the fact that you're creating a laminated material, more than the glue itself.

Well, they've already tested that. link and link

Despite Stereodude's attention to detail in his design, I think he's completely missed the obvious area where noise is going to be the biggest problem: the ceiling. It will definitely suck to be in his house when he has his 4800W subwoofers in full cry.

My ceiling will use clips + channel + 2 layers of 5/8" drywall + GG. That's the best I can do since I can't make a stagger joist ceiling due to the steel beam that's in the way.

Green Glue makes a noticeable improvement in reducing low frequency transmission (though of course it is the hardest range to stop). Even over factory damped panels. link

 

[mubs]

There's no use sugar-coating it: flat 8' ceilings suck acoustically, you've got a guaranteed resonance around 125Hz that's really hard to suppress (2nd harmonic of low C on a bass guitar). Certainly, thick carpet on the floor is a must.

I had this in mind when I built my last house, so made sure the relevant ceiling was sloped, i.e. 'cathedral'. One of the side walls was exposed tumbled bricks, which although reflective did present a highly irregular surface.

Could you get away with treating just one wall? One of each pair of facing surfaces would still have a serious dampening effect. If you can't have anything else, just go the (heavy) curtain route. It won't stop noise, but it will help dampen reflections.

Couldn't agree more with the carpet / curtain suggestions. Every little bit of fabric will help, of course. I learned this the hard way when I moved back to India. Everything is hard - cement plastered brick walls, cement plastered concrete ceilings, hard tile floors. This is everywhere, both inside and outside the the home. Sounds just kept bouncing around, with really harsh harmonics. I'm not talking about music, I'm talking about voices and everyday household sounds. I was going mad and seriously contemplated just moving back. Of course this was in the first week, when the floor was bare, windows didn't have curtains, etc. Getting even a 15'x10' Persian carpet and heavy curtains for the windows helped tremendously. And once we got the furniture, the cushions helped too. Fabric is the single easiest, most effective solution.

 

[Stereodude]

I suspect you could get the result you're really after with 1" of compressed fiberglass product covered with an acoustically transparent fabric.

Even most home theater enthusiasts (who build pretty dead) rooms don't cover all the walls with compressed fiberglass. Usually just the side and back walls to ear level and some spot treatments on the ceiling.

 

[ddrueding]

Thanks for all the feedback guys. If I can get away with shrinking the room 4" in each dimension, I'll be doing the 5/8+GG+5/8+1" Fiberglass+Fabric. Owens Corning is still the only supplier I can find whose fabric is large enough to do my bedroom ceiling seamlessly (14'x13').

 

[Stereodude]

I would suggest making the seams part of the design. I think you'll discover that you can't get a 13' wide piece of fabric to hang nicely.

 

[time]

Owens Corning is still the only supplier I can find whose fabric is large enough to do my bedroom ceiling seamlessly (14'x13').

Bedroom? Ceiling? You're trying to soundproof your bedroom? :erm:

 

[LunarMist]

I can't figure out what the goals is. Is it to deaded the room somewhat and make the sound more neutral or insulate the room from the rest of the house or maybe the neighbors?

 

[ddrueding]

It is for the bedroom. Two purposes, to isolate noise (in and out) and to deaden the acoustics as much as possible inside the room.

 

[Howell]

Sound doesn't travel in a vacuum. Have you considered working with this fundamental aspect of physics? :-o Cosmonaut suits are going cheap!

I've never been in an anechoic chamber (sp?). I wonder what it would be like to sleep in one. Would it give you weird dreams?

I remember as a kid pressing on the thick curtains on the side walls at the commercial movie theater until I could feel the cinder block underneath. I thought it was weird interior design at the time.

 

[Howell]

It is for the bedroom. Two purposes, to isolate noise (in and out) and to deaden the acoustics as much as possible inside the room.

I assume you will have wall to wall carpet on the floor.

 

[Howell]

Bedroom? Ceiling? You're trying to soundproof your bedroom? :erm:

David is bold and impulsive in all his entertainment ventures.

 

[ddrueding]

I assume you will have wall to wall carpet on the floor.

Working on it.

 

[CougTek]

Are you doing this to capture teenagers and torture them without the neighboors earing their screams?

 

[ddrueding]

Wow. No?

 

[mubs]

Sometimes too much of a good thing is bad. If your bedroom is dead silent, you'll never be able to sleep anywhere else - at a friend's place or a hotel when traveling. Moderation in every aspect of life is key!

 

[ddrueding]

Everything in moderation, including moderation. I am an incredibly light sleeper. So much so that I used to think I was an insomniac, as I could never fall asleep. Then I started staying in nice hotels on high floors.

Related: has anyone here tried a sensory deprivation tank?

 

[Bozo]

Ear plugs and ear muffs don't help?

 

[ddrueding]

Nope. If you think sleeping with a small noise every 30 minutes is hard, try it with earplugs

 

[Mercutio]

Are you doing this to capture teenagers and torture them without the neighbors hearing their screams?

Karla Homolka would like to have a word with you.

Bonus: Already a resident of the great frozen north.

 

[CougTek]

She even moved to my city a few years ago. Now, I neither know or care where she is. And since she has a new identity and a new face, she could be one of my customers and I wouldn't know.

 

[LunarMist]

Everything in moderation, including moderation. I am an incredibly light sleeper. So much so that I used to think I was an insomniac, as I could never fall asleep. Then I started staying in nice hotels on high floors.

Related: has anyone here tried a sensory deprivation tank?

What you want is not a completely quiet sleeping room, but one with soft, pseudo-random background noises.

 

[ddrueding]

What you want is not a completely quiet sleeping room, but one with soft, pseudo-random background noises.

I'll be installing a small water feature outside the bedroom window, so it can blend with the traffic.

 

[Stereodude]

Just make sure you put a smoke detector / fire alarm in there that's tied to the other in your house so you don't sleep yourself to death in a fire because you couldn't hear it going off.

 

[ddrueding]

Just make sure you put a smoke detector / fire alarm in there that's tied to the other in your house so you don't sleep yourself to death in a fire because you couldn't hear it going off.

Funny you should mention it, those arrived today

 

[ddrueding]

Just finished getting the green glue and second layer of 5/8" Type-X sheetrock up in the master bedroom (did you know that a 12'x4' piece of 5/8 is 125lbs?). That combined with the super dual-laminated, dual-pane window put a big dent in noise from the street. Of course, I also removed the old carpet and exposed the hardwood. At this point there is no external noise, but the acoustics in the room are quite terrifying. I'm sure a Cal. King bed will make a big difference, and I'm looking at some of these.

 

[Howell]

Damn you leaky faucet!