Why do Socket 939 Boards suck so much?

[Mercutio]

What I want is simple:
More than 4 SATA ports
1394 support
Gigabit LAN
Passively cooled Northbridge
SPDIF output (fringe feature, but lots of boards have it)
Sound from a chip better than Realtek's - I am NOT paying $100 for a sound card in 2005.
Prefer Via chipset, since I don't particularly want to maintain another disk image
Don't care about PCI-express or AGP. Whatever.

Right now the only thing that look it they come close to my specs is the
Gigabyte GA-K8N Ultra-9, which has Realtek sound.

Albatron has a board that fails by having just 2(!) SATA ports and by not including SPDIF support for the Via Envy sound chip (which, if you care about sound at all, is a much nicer source). But BIG plus for being Via and not nVidia.

The nicer MSI boards have SB Live chips on board but MSI puts those thrice-damned 40mm fans on top of the northbridge.

How utterly annoying.

 

[Buck]

Lately, a lot of hardware items have been annoying. Besides not being able to find the perfect combination of features on a motherboard, quantities for good AMD boards have been low. Sure, I can get them, but I prefer to see 300 in stock versus just 10. The high quantity stuff is either a brand I don't want (like ECS or MSI) or a chipset I don't want, like VIA KM stuff. The flip side would be Intel based motherboards, and I don't want those either. Add to all this the low quantity of all graphics cards, especially of my favorite passively cooled Gigabyte stuff. :evil:

What I want is simple too:
4 SATA ports will suffice - how about SATA optical drives being mainstream?!?
LAN
Passively cooled Northbridge (very important)
"I am NOT paying $100 for a sound card in 2005" - agreed!
"Prefer Via chipset, since I don't particularly want to maintain another disk image." I could go either VIA or nVidia. Currently VIA is having issues with SATA II drives.
PCI-express or AGP

I would much rather add something like 1394 with an adapter card. Fancy audio setup? My clientelle don't care. Heck, they don't even want 250 GB drives! They want quiet, stable machines with decent performance (they normally don't play games either). They're more worried that something like ACT, Great Plains or Quickbooks operates speedily.

 

[Mercutio]

Via KM stuff is great for business machines! No doubt about it.
Well, OK, as implemented by Gigabyte it's great. No comment on anyone else's.

Pair it with a Sempron and go to town.

But back to the Asstasticness of Socket 939 offerings...

I'm looking at 939 as a "performance" system right now. Mainstream PCs for over 15 years have been able to handle four disk drives. The upper-end boards should be delivering something more than that. Particularly for my personal needs, where four hard disks = a good start.
Same thing with the fancy audio. By and large, someone who wants 939 is probably a gamer or enthusiast - the kind of person who would care about getting something better than the baseline vanilla.

For that matter, if someone just wants vanilla, it's not like there's any performance difference between 939 and 754! There are several acceptable options in that space right now. The compelling arguments for 939 over 754 are basically predicated on someone who will either 1.) be upgrading beyond his initial PC config, 2.) using the full capabilities of PCI-express or 3.) have more money than good sense.

SATA2 support is irrelevant to me. The Samsung drives I buy are plain old SATA, as are the big Hitachis I like. Who is making SATA/300 drives right now? Anyone have one?

 

[sechs]

Who's paying $100 for a sound card?

I paid less than $50 for my Turtle Beach Santa Cruz three years ago, and it's still considered a pretty good sound card.

 

[Mercutio]

The funny thing is, 90% of the sound cards that are made either use a proprietary Creative chip, or have the same Crystal Media or Realtek chips as you get on motherboards.

Philips used to have a decent chip, and now Via has the only generic premium chip.

 

[P5-133XL]

Other than more than 4 SATA ports, I think you're right-on. There are lots of MB's that access to PATA and that will do for adding extra devices, as needed. With rare exceptions even an enthusist can deal with the limitation of 8 drives.... As of right now there are few real advantages to SATA that requires its use to the exclusion of PATA: There really is no price benefit, nor performance benefit.

I believe that over 4 SATA + 4 PATA's and one should be thinking add-on card. Few use beyond 8 so everyone should not be required to pay for the extra drive capability. Now, once PATA starts getting dropped from the MB's, then you have a valid arguement.

 

[Bozo]

The latest Intel MBs I bought have 4 SATA ports and only 1 PATA port (for two drives). I used a SATA hard drive and a SATA Plextor CD/DVD burner without and problems.

Bozo :mrgrn:

 

[Mercutio]

Yes, but who wants Intel?

And I'm not saying that to be a fanboy... those chips are REALLY hot, have louder fans and operate slower than the cheaper Athlon64. Where's the positive?

 

[Gilbo]

Good sound is actually pretty easy to add Mercutio: Chaintech AV710

 

[Santilli]

Hmmm:
Now you know why I haven't exactly jumped on the Athlon processor boat, again.

Not only are the features questionable, the pricing is pretty high. I can't help but feel the only real price value is around the 120-160 dollar price range, and then I don't get what I really want.

I also get the general feeling that I'm buying a cheap, gaming board, that will have a limited life, vs. buying a server/workstation quality board, despite the price of the Asus etc. which I think, for the features, are pretty darn expensive.

It's going to be nice to be able to buy an Athlon/Supermicro combo...

I also think the rapid changes in onboard technology, the retooling, etc. is designed to keep supply down, prices up, and is orchestrated to do just that.

But, I tend to be skeptical of the industry, in general.

I've been looking for quite awhile for a motherboard/cpu combo at what I consider a decent price, and I just don't find it. The processor price value for the Athlons is the 3200+, Intel 2.8ghz, but, except for Supermicro's lowend boards, I just don't see a value, proven motherboard.

I guess that what I'm looking for is not being on the bleeding edge, but hoping to get a proven motherboard, with adequate production to drive the price down, but, the motherboard makers are changing models so quickly that doesn't seem to happen, except with server/workstation boards.

The other thing that would work is an under 100 dollar board that everyone felt was reliable, but allowed using past pci cards. But, I don't know of any that are proven and reliable...

s

 

[Santilli]

PS: Is it just me, or do the sound systems not have enough juice to really drive the current speakers, or is it just me?

Headphones have been my answer...

s

 

[Buck]

Not only are the features questionable, the pricing is pretty high. I can't help but feel the only real price value is around the 120-160 dollar price range, and then I don't get what I really want.

My problem is that most boards have more features than I want or need. On the Intel side of things, the price gets really high for decent i925 boards and 3GHz processors.

 

[Tannin]

The answer is Gigabyte.

No, not for you Merc, you want stuff that practically no-one else wants, and your chances of finding it are poor. (As you already know.) Your nest bet is the basic mainboard of your choice and add-on cards for sound and possibly SATA.

But for you, Greg, it's high time you discoverd the Toyota of motherboards. Feature set to suit anyone bar a Mercutio, price to suit anyone bar a Scrooge, failure rate to suit a Tannin - i.e., sweet bugger-all.

Simple, fairly cheap, enormously practical. Get yourself a plain vanilla entry-level Gigabyte board (essentially anythig that doesn't have integrated video), plug in an Athlon 64 in the 3000 to 3500 range (please yourself which socket), and forget about it. For the next several years, it will give you the incredible boredom of a system which just works - and works a good deal faster than anything with an Intel badge on it.

Boredom is good. Gigabyte deliver it by the boxload.

PS: I agree with Buck about KM integrated boards. Gigabyte ones work. Others we have tried (all older models now, so this may have changed) give trouble. Only the Biostars were OK.

Two other points to note.

(1) Don't make the mistake of thinking that because ASUS are quite expensive they are any bloody good.

(2) Our experience with 1st and 2nd generation Nvidia mainboard chipsets has been pretty darn poor. Essentially, the Nforce 1 and the Nforce II chipsets should never be really trusted. The Nvidia A-64 chipsets, on the other hand, seem to be performing without the slightest fuss or bother. It's a little too early to be sure, but so far they have been excellent. (Mind you, we pretty much only ever use Gigabyte ones, so YMMV.)

 

[Santilli]

Tannin:
Point taken. However, this is the kind of stuff I see around:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813128283#DetailSpecs

Time Is Running Out! Shipping Specials End 5/31/05
GIGABYTE GA-K8N Ultra-9 Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 Ultra ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
Model #: GA-K8N Ultra-9
Item #: N82E16813128283

**This item is warranted through the product manufacturer only.
In Stock
$3.50 FedEx Saver Shipping
Total :$492.99
Save : $11.00

A bundle where I can save a WHOLE 11.00, PLUS SHIPPING?

WHAT ARE THESE PEOPLE THINKING? Frankly it just looks like the items are too new to market, and therfore, relatively expensive.

Does the speed jump from the 3200 to the 3500 512k justify the price premium? 170 vs 250?

s

 

[Santilli]

http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=MB-K8NSU93


http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=MB-K8NSU93

That looks pretty good, and, I could use an AGP card, Matrox P650,
along with all my scsi stuff, buy an LSI card and boot from it, and, it wouldn't break the bank...

s

 

[Mercutio]

Newegg's prices, as a general rule, are so breathtakingly low that there's not much point in further discounting. That's the reason people show there.

A lot of stuff I buy is cheaper from Newegg, including the shipping, than it is from a wholesaler. Granted, I don't buy in the quantities that make Ingram Micro beg for my business, but Newegg is REALLY close, and available to the general public.

Of course, their service has gone in a toiletward direction since the beginning of the year. Don't buy motherboards from 'em, 'cause they won't take the RMA.

Anyway, there's no discernable difference between a 3000, 3200 and a 3500 for desktop use. For that matter, there's no discernable difference between a Socket 754 Sempron 3000 and a "regular" Athlon64 3000, either... unless you're doing video work.

Voting with my dollar, and I think if you checked with Buck, his as well, Gigabyte REALLY IS generally the best stuff out there (including the integrated video models, Tannin's assertions to the contrary).
Wanna know how highly I think of Gigabyte? The occasions that I buy boards that aren't Gigabyte, I actually feel bad about it afterwards.
That's a hell of an endorsement.

Tannin, I'm not asking for anything unreasonable. Sure, my shopping list has a couple enthusiast features, but it's not like any single thing I'm looking for is generally unavailable across all the possible products.

Also, to the issue of sound systems having enough power: That's a function of what's amplifying your speakers, Greg. For machines where I'm actually going to be listening to music, that means using a real amplifier or receiver. The only way you're going to get an amplified source directly out of your PC is if you have a Soundblaster 16 or something - anything newer relies on powered speakers or an external amp.

 

[time]

Tannin almost saves me a post. I agree with every single thing he says, although nForce 1 and 2 haven't been quite as bad for me - I found it depended very much on the manufacturer.

That doesn't change the fact that I think nForce 3 is great and nForce 4 just terrific (excellent gigabit ethernet, 4 native SATA, etc).

BTW, some here (not Merc) don't seem to realize that high end S939 solutions have 8 SATA ports, typically by adding an SiL controller for the second quartet. The only gripe I have is the chip fan: although it's not hard to replace these with a passive heatsink, I prefer not to.

Santilli, I don't know where to begin with what you've posted - but I'll try. Firstly, AMD is currently moving from Socket 754 to Socket 939 (single channel to dual channel), so manufacturers are forced to offer double the number of models until the transition is complete. Until then, AMD is offering S754 Semprons to utilize existing board designs and help vendors change from the obsolete Socket A (Athlon 32-bit).

Because AGP is also end-of-life, chipset manufacturers are only supporting S939 with PCI-e in their latest offerings. Otherwise, you would need double the number of variants again, resulting in even more severe stock shortages. Herein lies your problem: you're trying to re-use old technology that is incompatible with the new. Most people would abandon the old technology rather than throwing more money after it.

Does the speed jump from the 3200 to the 3500 512k justify the price premium? 170 vs 250?

Is an extra 9% worth $80 to you?

Not only are the features questionable, the pricing is pretty high ... I also get the general feeling that I'm buying a cheap, gaming board, that will have a limited life, vs. buying a server/workstation quality board ... I just don't see a value, proven motherboard.

If you would actually listen to what people here have recommended to you, then your confusion should abate.

With regard to quality, one of my clients has Duron 1300 workstations based on Gigabyte boards. They spent the first couple of years of their life in a dirty industrial environment. After two years, we were able to download firmware from Gigabyte to support an upgrade from the original Duron 600 CPUs. They have run 24 hours a day for five years and do not crash.

 

[Santilli]

That doesn't change the fact that I think nForce 3 is great and nForce 4 just terrific (excellent gigabit ethernet, 4 native SATA, etc).

OK

That doesn't change the fact that I think nForce 3 is great and nForce 4 just terrific (excellent gigabit ethernet, 4 native SATA, etc).

OK
the Gigabyte Nforce 4 boards 939 boards generally start at 130.

Keep in mind that old is not always slower, or worse. I'll be happy to put an 18 Gig old 15.3 Segate Cheetah as a boot drive, up against just about anything. For a desktop that is used for mild gaming, and school work, or, is a computer I bring to school for my kids use,18 gigs is big enough, and, since I've already invested the money, as each of the 4 or 5 drives fail, I can replace with another. I can also boot from a dual drive array, as soon as ATTO returns my dual channel raid card.

Also, few, if any cards match the P650 in clarity, if not speed. I must say the new ATI XL800 is a joy, and it's blinding fast. Still, the P650 will be more then adequate for a school computer, playing older games.


"Santilli, I don't know where to begin with what you've posted - but I'll try. Firstly, AMD is currently moving from Socket 754 to Socket 939 (single channel to dual channel), so manufacturers are forced to offer double the number of models until the transition is complete. Until then, AMD is offering S754 Semprons to utilize existing board designs and help vendors change from the obsolete Socket A (Athlon 32-bit)."

Well, that's the industry explanation for what I view as a high price period. It makes sense that makers offer more boards, but, all that does is go back to the consumer, since the boardmaker never really gets enough money to justify dropping the price, after development is paid for, and volume is not sufficent to justify dropping prices, either.

Actually, I've pretty much listened to EXACTLY what Splash has recommended, and I'm typing on it right now. I tried the P650, and three monitors, but, I find dual monitors, and the ATI a better blend, since I've been working with the kids, and games are a big part of what they do, and, an effective vocabulary learning tool.

With a single monitor, I could use the P650, avoid the 200 bucks for a gaming card, and build a dirt cheap computer that will work.

Or, I could take the other computer in the house, move it to school, and build a quite, girls computer, that's primarily internet and email.

Keep in mind that this area uses archaic macs, or imacs, that really suck.
The result is the kids learn to hate macs, since their home computer blows it away, and it's an emachine. I currently bring in two computers for my kids. With three, we could have some serious fun playing Diablo II, and net access.
"
Is an extra 9% worth $80 to you?"

Not when it represents more then 25% of the cost of the item.

"If you would actually listen to what people here have recommended to you, then your confusion should abate."

A bit harsh. I'm nothing if not a very good listener. I'm currently just a poor, intern school teacher, who's been laid off, so they can hope a teacher with a full credential will take the class. State law requires that, pretty much.

If I see a real great deal, I'll jump, but, I've got pretty much another 3 months before school starts, and, in that time prices should only go down more.

Thanks Mercutio for the perspective on Newegg pricing.
"
f course, their service has gone in a toiletward direction since the beginning of the year. Don't buy motherboards from 'em, 'cause they won't take the RMA."
The above sucks.


"That's a function of what's amplifying your speakers, Greg. For machines where I'm actually going to be listening to music, that means using a real amplifier or receiver. The only way you're going to get an amplified source directly out of your PC is if you have a Soundblaster 16 or something - anything newer relies on powered speakers or an external amp."

Any external amps you suggest? I've always found with speakers, Klipsch in particular, they respond well to being over powered with watts.

s
PS

I just went for the Panasonic 1.6 ghz, CF-51, and, I've so far, put 1.256 gigs of ram in, bought another harddrive cadie, and, I've ordered a Hitachi Travelstar 60 gig, 7200 rpm drive.

Great price, 1190 for the laptop. Couldn't pass on it. Looking for a similar, 1/2 off type of thing for another box for work.

 

[Santilli]

By the way, so many people have mentioned the quality of the NEC DVD players that I bought 4 of em. 3 internal are going into various boxes, and the external I'm using currently, a MadDog/Costco steal.

thanks all for the suggestions, and, keeping me away from Plextor.

s

 

[Tannin]

Gigabyte REALLY IS generally the best stuff out there (including the integrated video models, Tannin's assertions to the contrary).

Oh, I didn't mean that, Gigabyte's all-in-one boards are, given their design parameters and target market, just fine. We use them all the time and, maybe aside from a particular Biostar model, just about the only things in KMxxx space I've tried that you can sell with complete confidence.

I just meant that they weren't a Greg Santilli sort of product.

On to your motherboard complaint now, Merc. Here too that's not quite what I meant to say. There ain't nothing wrong with your wishes, and it's entirely reasonable to expect that there would be one mainboard maker out there that could fill them. Well, reasonable on first sight, anyway. Bu in reality, how many mainboard buyers could actually tell the difference between a Chaintech AV710 and a dead cat?

People don't buy on performance anymore, nor on quality, nor even on feature set. People buy on:

* (a) price
* (b) length of feature-list (see below)
* (c) the number of stupid blue lights it's possible to attach
* (d) price

Note that I say length of feature set, not simply feature set. It ain't got much to do with the actual features themselves (most psudo-geek buyers wouldn't know a fair-dinkum practical feature from a pound of butter, and even then they'd only notice if you stuffed it up their bottom), it's all about having the maximum possible number of features, more-or-less regardless of whether said feature actually does anything or not, never mind that far more difficult question, does it do it well.

Selling a motherboard ain't difficult. It's all about getting as many of those little diamond-shaped dot-point thingies on the box as possible.

That's your trouble Merc. You seem to expect the manufacturers to make things that not only work (rare enough in itself these days), but work well, possibly even excel in something. Why should they bother? There's only one of you, and countless millions of the pretty-blue-light brigade.

(Excuse me, I can feel an attack of cynicsm coming on. I better stop posting and go back to that little IBM vomit box with the spyware infection now. Maybe I'll get lucky and tomorrow's headlines will reveal that new research has finally proved blue leds to be a major cause of brain cancer, rapidly terminal brain cancer in the case of the ones they fit to automobiles. I can dream, can't I?)

 

[Santilli]

Actually, I just picked up:
Gigabyte K8nsc 79 bucks, Amd 3000+ for 133.
and Talent pc 3200 memory 1 gig, 87. plus a Swiftech MCX6400-v and Vantec Sp922 for 66 bucks.

around 366, and now all I need is a case, and silent power supply.

Then, we are rocking...

Despite others comments, I do listen, and act.

Tannin: I have two sides: the super cheap, but make it work, for my students stuff, and the stuff I use for myself. I'll take the above, and give it to my girlfriend, and take her P2 400 mhz, P2, and use it for my kids....

s
PS Ms. Berry rocks in Catwoman... :mrgrn:

 

[Tannin]

Darn good equipment choice, Santilli.

 

[Mercutio]

Interesting that we have a thread on motherboards and several parties who have been conspicuously absent in recent weeks come popping out of the woodwork.

 

[Buck]

...and take her P2 400 mhz, P2, and use it for my kids....

Still a decent machine in its own right.

 

[Buck]

The one redeeming feature for the K8VM800M's IGP is that it has an AGP slot - I need somewhere to plug in a P650 card.

 

[Buck]

(1) Don't make the mistake of thinking that because ASUS are quite expensive they are any bloody good.

This is a very important principle, but at the same time I haven't had the type of Asus woes that Tannin has experienced. Asus doesn't deserve to cost more, but they have been just as reliable for me as Gigabyte.

 

[Santilli]

...and take her P2 400 mhz, P2, and use it for my kids....

Still a decent machine in its own right.

Yes it is. With the P550 in it, it's a very nice office machine, but, it's on the border for the specs required for the NEC DVD player, processor speedwise.

Also, the AGP slot won't take the P650 I'd like to put in it. I think we've had it something like 7 years, and it's on constantly.

I'll take the XL700 ATI video card, put it in the new Athlon AGP slot, move the P650 into the Asus 1.4ghz athlon, I think it will fit in the A7N266, and I'll have a very fast, cheap, quiet, work station for school, or in the lawyer's office. I am going to need a couple LSI single channel 320 cards, and, I can use all my 68 pin 18 gig drives for boot drives.

I love it when a plan comes together.

I really like the fact that total, with a quiet heatsink, it's about 366 instead of 550.
Now I just have to wait for ups....


s

 

[Santilli]

Forgot to ask: Does anyone have any idea what silent, fanless power supply i should buy for this rig, and a very quiet case?

Thanks

Greg

 

[ddrueding]

Forgot to ask: Does anyone have any idea what silent, fanless power supply i should buy for this rig, and a very quiet case?

Thanks

Greg

I can't reccomend any fanless PSUs because NONE of them are actually fanless. Seriously, every one of them will only run reliably if you have a case fan providing significant airflow nearby - therefore making the "fanless" claim a bit weak. I'm really liking my new Seasonic S12-430W, it's remarkably quiet and very powerful. Much cheaper than the Phantoms as well.

 

[Santilli]

Thanks David.

That does seem to be the top rated, quiet, PS, but, it's 100 bucks from newegg.

Would be nice to find a bundle with that and a nice quiet case together...

s

 

[Santilli]

Hi
Just dawned on me: Does the 64 bit processor need a 64 bit version of XP?
Thanks

Greg

 

[sechs]

Depends on which one. AMD64 architecture processors also run 32-bit software natively. IA64 architecture processors fake it.

 

[Santilli]

"AMD Athlon 64 processor 3000+* (1.8GHz) 939-pin OEM A643000939 "

Well, this one, to be percise...

I gather IA64 is the Intel stuff etc.?

s

 

[P5-133XL]

My opinions and observations:

You can run both the Intel and AMD 64 bit processors on the 32 bit Windows platform just fine. You can run both of these processors on the 64 bit Windows platform too but that is a far more iffy proposition because of the lack of 64 bit driver support. There is a slight performance benefit using the 64 bit platform when it works, especially with 64 bit applications (currently few and far between). Unfortunately it is not an overwhelming performance gain but rather on the order of magnitude of 0-50% with a typical gain of 15%-30%.

Unless you need 64 bit capability, stick with the tried and true 32 bit platforms: for now. Eventually there may be good reason for switching and when that happens, go for it. Right now 32 bit is the way to go.

 

[time]

Right now 32 bit is the way to go.

Unless you need to access more than 3GB of RAM ...

Although Merc had troubles with driver support, I don't believe you're running anything that hasn't got readily available 64-bit drivers, including the Matrox card. As WinXP-64 happily runs 32-bit applications, I can't see why you shouldn't try it.

Incidentally, although AMD chips offer a performance lift with 64-bit apps, the reverse is true of Intel chips - so far.

Footnote: IA64 refers to the old Titanium architecture, which is completely incompatible with X86-64.

 

[Mercutio]

I had trouble when I tried it before XP64 was officially released. It's probably better now.

Anyway there is a very compelling reason to stick with 32-bit versions of windows: No 16-bit support.

Ah! You say, "I don't use any 16-bit software!"

Oddly enough, a lot of programs use 16-bit installers. Programs like Winzip and ACDSee, two of the very first things I normally install.

Whoops.

 

[Santilli]

Mercutio:
You may have an excellent point. I do tend to use some pretty archaic hardware, such as an ATTO dual channel card, 2906 Adaptec, with a bunch of scsi drives, and chances of those ever having 64 bit drivers is probably pretty slim.

I have an uninstalled copy of 2000 pro laying around: maybe just go with that?

S

 

[Santilli]

ewiz shipped motherboard, cpu, ram. Arrived today.
s

 

[Ted]

What I want is simple:
More than 4 SATA ports
1394 support
Gigabit LAN
Passively cooled Northbridge
SPDIF output (fringe feature, but lots of boards have it)
Sound from a chip better than Realtek's - I am NOT paying $100 for a sound card in 2005.
Prefer Via chipset, since I don't particularly want to maintain another disk image
Don't care about PCI-express or AGP. Whatever.

Right now the only thing that look it they come close to my specs is the
Gigabyte GA-K8N Ultra-9, which has Realtek sound.

Albatron has a board that fails by having just 2(!) SATA ports and by not including SPDIF support for the Via Envy sound chip (which, if you care about sound at all, is a much nicer source). But BIG plus for being Via and not nVidia.

The nicer MSI boards have SB Live chips on board but MSI puts those thrice-damned 40mm fans on top of the northbridge.

How utterly annoying.

I still haven't made the jump to socket 939 myself yet because I can't find a board that really grabs me in its feature list. I've always been attracted to high end boards with lots of integrated solutions (except video) Currently I think the top end 939 based boards are still a little spartan in what they offer for the money.

More than 4 SATA ports is a must have for me but so far the only implementation I have found to give more than 4 ports is via outdated Silicon image chipsets. The only Sil chipset that provides 4 additional ports is the 3114 which is very outdates compared to what the company now makes but alas no-one implements newer chipsets except in 2 channel guise.

1394b support should now be on all boards but it isn't. And where's Firewire 800

Gigabit Lan is generally a given today with minor exceptions. Dual Gigabit Lan is nice and handy.

The onboard Realtek doesn't really bother me even though I have it plumbed into expensive Denon AV equipment. Guess I'm going tone deaf in old age. I would want to see something better then SB Live before I would go weak at the knees in anticipation of how much better it sounds as opposed to Realtek. I certainly wouldn't pay a premium for something better unless it was a very substantial improvement.

Never going back to VIA after Nforce 2 Ultra 400GB (Epox 8rda6+pro)
All previous boards I had in recent years were VIA based and bugs and glitches were so common. The later nforce chipsets simply work as they should out of the box.

PCI-e is really frustrating the hell out of me. I want to see mobo's and add on cards that utilise the potential bandwidth other than for silly 8x8 spilt SLI graphic cards.

Currently we have setups with 16+1 and 16+4 etc and very little to place in the damn slots. I'd like to see boards with an 8+8 split where the second 8x slot is removed from the graphics side of things and made available for high end raid cards etc. Currently I'm only aware of one PCI-e Raid card and one motherboard that allows the use of it in the second SLI slot most other boards have issues in detaching the second 8x slot for other than graphics card use. The increased bandwidth potential is there but no-ones seriously exploiting it.

Need some desktop mobo's that give some of the bandwidth benefits of PCI-X on server and work station boards without the high price. I want a normal desktop board that I can put some serious storage onto and not have a bottleneck. With the need for large storage capacity today thanks to video I don't think its such an unusual or big ask.

SPDIF
Very useful. Inputs and outputs would be nice. One of the reasons I purchased this mobo was because it had coaxial SPDIF out rather than only an optical out which was more common then. The idea of having to purchase a 15 foot toslink cable to integrate my PC to HT and the expense of such was major determining factor in what I bought. Also any tight arse company that makes the SPDIF connections an optional extra is also off my buying list.

NB fans don't bother me these days as the rest of my system has so much active cooling that one more fan is not noticeable. Easily replaced anyway with a cheap Zalman heatsink if its a bother.

That gigabyte mobo you're looking at is nice but I'm still looking for something with a bit more. It just hasn't been made yet

 

[LiamC]

What I want to know is what boards _will_ support X2. There is lots of *mumble, mumble* "if it supports FX then it'll support X2." But that doesn't convince me. A 4400+ will be my next upgrade, & I'd really like it if I could plug it in to an AGP S939, so I don't have to upgrade my video card, but if I have to...