Why Windows Causes Stupidity

[Tannin]

Windows 2000.

XP sucks. Big time.

Whoever wrote that it is a "much improved" version of W2K has beed pulling his pud too much. What a joke. XP is a almost entirely nothing but rewarmed Windows 2000 with zooming windows, Product Activation, DRM, a terminally broken search tool, a huge pile of useless, CPU-sapping eye-candy, and not one single feature that can actually be called useful.

 

[CougTek]

What are you doing online at this hour. Sleep, SLEEP!

 

[timwhit]

Tannin, have you used 2003 Server yet? If not, you should really check it out.

 

[Buck]

Windows 2000.

XP sucks. Big time.

Whoever wrote that it is a "much improved" version of W2K has beed pulling his pud too much. What a joke. XP is a almost entirely nothing but rewarmed Windows 2000 with zooming windows, Product Activation, DRM, a terminally broken search tool, a huge pile of useless, CPU-sapping eye-candy, and not one single feature that can actually be called useful.

You forgot the 'much improved driver base'. Windows 2000 isn't much better with inherent drivers than NT 4.0. Two days ago I just set up a Windows 2000 system with an Asus V7100 GeForce2 MX video card -- 16 color, 640 x 480 resolution, until I installed the driver from the CD -- that happens much less with XP.

 

[mubs]

Maybe someone around here has an extra Windows 2003 license available that they could help jtr out with for cheap...

A quick check shows that a copy of Win 2k3 is ~ $600. Other than the free trial at MS, can it be had for less?

 

[timwhit]

I bet Mercutio knows a way.

How about an academic copy? Anyone have access to those?

 

[Adcadet]

This place has some decent tips on how to optimize XP. Granted, the best optimization might be a Linux install... :wink:

 

[mubs]

Another quaetion: some sw will not install on a "server" OS; it's also difficult to get drivers to run on server OSes. Have these issues been a problem with 2003?

 

[Adcadet]

Another quaetion: some sw will not install on a "server" OS; it's also difficult to get drivers to run on server OSes. Have these issues been a problem with 2003?

IIRC Madden 2004 would not install on S2003 (or some other program), but I know Madden 2005 will (though performance sucked big time).

I too was wondering if there was a way to change the OS identifier to read XP to avoid such problems. I never found the answer.

 

[timwhit]

Another quaetion: some sw will not install on a "server" OS; it's also difficult to get drivers to run on server OSes. Have these issues been a problem with 2003?

I haven't had any of these issues. All of the applications that i have wanted to use install just fine. I can make a list if anyone wants to know. And I can install something to see if it works for someone, as long as it is not spyware infested.

I did have a bit of a problem getting ATI's control panel to work, but I finally got the whole annoying display control panel to work. The drivers worked fine right off the bat.

I don't play games, other than minesweeper, so I don't know about game compatibility. Plus, the fan on my video card died, so I don't want to risk burning it out by playing any 3D games.

 

[Adcadet]

oh, I know what didn't worth - SPSS, but that was because my university didn't buy a license for Server 2003 or something (afraid I'd try to "serve" the application?).

 

[mubs]

A list of sw known to work with S2003 would be awesome; maybe it can be in a new thread in the Toolbox Ref. Section? Not that I have the moolah for a new system or for S2003.. Tannin'll be happy to know I'm still on Coppermine/W2k!

 

[Bozo]

Doom3 would not load on 2003 for me. I eventually got it to load with a crack.

I haven't had any problems with XP Pro. Maybe Home is different.
My present install has been running for over a year. It's even been moved from a single drive to a RAID0 setup. Here is one of the best XP tune up guides I've found. http://www.tweakguides.com/TGTC.html

Bozo :mrgrn:

 

[jtr1962]

Games are almost a non-issue for me. The only ones I play are MS Train Simulator (which uses Direct X), Flight Simulator, and Fly!. Now one thing I might have a problem with is that my CAD PCB tools are still DOS-based. They were purchased over 10 years ago, and aren't used frequently enough to justify spending several hundred on Windows versions. Also, I'd have to learn the new versions (not hard but not worth investing the time given that I only do a few boards a year). Anyway, does 2K, 2K3, or XP have a DOS emulator? It's not a show stopper if they don't since I can always keep an older machine with Win98SE. It just makes it harder in that I need to switch machines to do PCB work, and then transfer the files to my main machine for uploading to the PCB fabs.

 

[timwhit]

jtr, if you want me to try CAD PCB tool to see if it works you can send it to me and I will test it for you on 2003

 

[Tannin]

Darn it, now I can't find those linky things that I checked out. One (was it yours, Tim) was a 170 page PDF (or 170k, I forget) and there is no way I'm ever going to read a massive great PDF like that if I don't absoluetly need to. As Tea would say, PDF Zuckz! It's horrible to read. (In fact, I'll let you into a secret: everyone thinks the "p" in "PDF" stands for "portable". Nope: it really stands for "printable" - because on anything except paper, reading PDF is a mild form of torture, suitable for classification with extended sleep deprivation, being forced to stand naked in the snow, being sent to bed without your dinner, and whatever else they normally do to prisoners in Guantanamo Bay.

(Tannin, last I heard, there wasn't much snow in Cuba.)

(Shows how much you know. They fly it in specially. What do you think all those C17s and C5Bs are for?)

Oh.)

The other one was interesting, but it turned out to be a list, pretty much, of the things Kristi and I always do to every Windows installation that passes through our hands, be that new build or upgrade or anything else - if you bring your computer to us, you get it optimised whether you wanted it or not - largely because I'm dammed if I'll waste my time working on the thing if it's riddled with eye candy and MSN and realplayer and assorted other crap. Some small differences though, which made itinteresting.

Finally, adding a couple of out of the box drivers for stuff that you were going to have to update with more appropriate versions anyway does not count as a "much improved" feature, Buck. It's barely even a blip on the radar.

 

[Buck]

Finally, adding a couple of out of the box drivers . . ./quote] I thought they added three?

 

[Mercutio]

My Windows PCs are all Server 2003 Web Edition. Grey-market versions start at about $250 or $300 (about $50 more than XP Pro, retail). Microsoft hands out legit, full and legal copies of Server 2003 at almost all its training sessions and tech conferences. Usually, if you're affliated with a school, there's a way to get a free or cheap version (at the last job fair at my local Purdue campus, they were literally giving Server 2003 and Visual Studio to every computer or engineering student who stopped to talk to them). Microsoft Partners, Vendors and Action Pack subscribers get some number of free licenses and the ability to download it directly from MS.

I received copies in all of the above ways (well, I've never paid for it for myself, but I have for others).

Personally, I haven't run across anything that *I* have wanted to run that I couldn't get to work. Server 2003 is fast - not in the same way Linux is - but fast for Windows and it doesn't have any of the shit that makes XP too obnoxious for me to use.

As far as 2000 goes, It's still just fine for me as well, but then, I sysprep everything and roll my own install image. The only thing that doesn't work for me out of the box is maybe the sound device. Even if you didn't want to do that, you could build a better installer with nLite or something.

 

[Tannin]

Does 2003 Server require WPA Tim?

If so, I ain't playing. I will not willingly pay, with my own money, for a product that I can only use with somebody else's special permission. WTF did I pay that monety for if I don't get unfettered access to the product? That just sucks.

Once 2000 is no longer usable, we will see what we will see. It might be time to switch over to *nix then.

 

[timwhit]

The version I installed didn't require activation. I used a volume license though.

 

[i]

Anyway, does 2K, 2K3, or XP have a DOS emulator?

Dunno. But Linux has DOSEMU. I think it's supposed to work quite well. Anyone here used it?

 

[mubs]

I have a DOS-based dBase-IV program that runs fine in a command window in Win 2k Pro.

 

[Handruin]

Does 2003 Server require WPA Tim?

If so, I ain't playing. I will not willingly pay, with my own money, for a product that I can only use with somebody else's special permission. WTF did I pay that monety for if I don't get unfettered access to the product? That just sucks.

Once 2000 is no longer usable, we will see what we will see. It might be time to switch over to *nix then.

The non volume license versions do require WPA. We ran into this problem at work a few times with recloning virtual machines. The volume licensed version fixed it.

 

[Mercutio]

DOSEmu is fine, except that it doesn't do sound.
Bochs, Xen and VMware are all viable alternatives as well.

 

[ddrueding]

WPA is annoying, but I've never had it take longer than 5 minutes start to finnish. (That's worst-case, having to call them up and read the number aloud twice)