Windows 10

[Tea]

• Main lappy: Win 8.1 pro (Newish T-Series Thinkpad, 16GB)
• Main desktop: Win 8.1 pro (Pentium-G, 8GB, five (ish) 4TB hard drives
• Workshop mule: XP Pro (Can't even remember what the CPU is! Doesn't matter, the 2TB HDD is what it's there for. Gets used a lot.)
• Netbook: XP Home (Some tiny Atom thing, used surprisingly often. Goes OK for what it is. One day I'll replace it with a tablet. If I can ever decide which one.)
• Spare lappy: Win 7 pro (Old T-Series Thinkpad, 8GB. Used seldom except for helping out in the workshop with (e.g.) data transfers where I need AHCI & newish Win version.)
• Accounts: OS/2 (Some ancient single-core AMD CPU. Used seldom 'cos I hate doing the accounts! Gets a good thrashing every now and then when the accountant roars me up and I have to catch up a whole years worth of accounts in a few days. Still does what it does better than anything I could replace it with.)
• Spare-spare laptop: (planned, not in use yet) I have an ancient Thinkpad (old enough to have a proper-shape screen!) which originally shipped with Win 2000. All I want to run on it is DOS-based accounting software. Plus I need a way to back it up to memory stick, network, or CD-ROM. Prefer not to network it 'coz it's nice to have an air-gap on your accounts system, and modern Windows versions get funky when you ask them to use old network protocols. Depending on driver availability and what we can do with screen resolution, I might run OS/2, XP, Windows 98 or even DOS on it. In general, Windows NT-family products (2000, XP, Vista, 7, 8 and 10) are horrible things to run DOS software on. OS/2 is the best by far but it's been ages since I set an OS/2 box up and I'd have to waste hours remembering how to do it. I seem to remember that the Win9x family ran DOS stuff OK in full screen mode, have to try that to refresh my memory. Or, if I can figure out a way to make backups with it, there is always the real ape's retro OS, PC-DOS 7. (Do I have a really really old copy of Nero lying around somewhere? Maybe I could ask Tannin to knit me one.)

 

[Handruin]

Thanks guys. So maybe W10 isn't all that bad; maybe ok if run with all the protection like Anti-beacon.

I also love Handy's idea of using Linux for mainstream use and W7 in a VM for Window's specific things. I do have a i5-3570k, 16 GB RAM and enough disk space, so this should be quite feasible. To get started on this, I'll try to install Linux in a dual-boot config (with my existing W7). That way I can ease into this instead of jumping in cold turkey.

I will wait on this since Linux bug imperils tens of millions of PCs, servers, and Android phones.



I'll need to find an LTS release with the fix for this.

Take a read here if you're concerned with the zero-day bug and want to attempt patching it on your own.

 

[Chewy509]

I've got WIn10 running in a VM only for Visual Studio... (ensure my personal projects build cleanly on Windows), and for the very rare remote assistance session with my parents. My wife's and kids laptops are all Win7Pro.

 

[mubs]

Thanks for the link, Handy.

 

[Howell]

I also love Handy's idea of using Linux for mainstream use and W7 in a VM for Window's specific things.

And you can go either way with your base system and your vm. I would actually start with a linux vm and keep your stable w7 base. Document your install procedures and changes from default and feel free to wipe it out and start over. This is the fastest way for me to learn but still maintain a stable environment for web research and documentation.

 

[Bozo]

Thanks Howell, that helps a lot. I'll do some research and decide if I want to jump on the W-10 bandwagon.

Can the regulars here help by telling me who's all using W-10 on their main/primary machine (as opposed to a test or "play-with" machine) ? Thanks.

My computers are running Windows 7. Have been playing with Mint Linux though.

 

[mubs]

Thanks Howell. I downloaded an Ubuntu VM from osboxes.org but had two problems:

1) couldn't get it to install VMWare tools in the VM; it spent some 4 hours then barfed. I'll unpack the compressed file and try again.

2) osboxes says the root password is the same as the normal user:

Username – osboxes
Password – osboxes.org

For Root user account
Password – osboxes.org

But I couldn't get into su mode using that password. Ran out of time a couple of days ago and gave up.

 

[Mercutio]

You can always boot into single user mode and reset the root password.

 

[Handruin]

Thanks Howell. I downloaded an Ubuntu VM from osboxes.org but had two problems:

1) couldn't get it to install VMWare tools in the VM; it spent some 4 hours then barfed. I'll unpack the compressed file and try again.

2) osboxes says the root password is the same as the normal user:



But I couldn't get into su mode using that password. Ran out of time a couple of days ago and gave up.

Which version of Xubuntu is this? Installs I've done have come with the open source version of the VMware tools already installed as a package. I've not had to update them for things to work fine.

 

[Chewy509]

Which version of Xubuntu is this?

Re-reading the post history, mubs is using pre-canned installations from a 3rd party (osboxes.org), rather than installing the OS himself in a VM. It's possible the VMware tools which are being installed are not compatible with the VMWare version he is using?

I've not had to update them for things to work fine.

Likewise. The only exception was installing Ubuntu 14.04 on a Mac with VMWare Fusion 8...

 

[Handruin]

Re-reading the post history, mubs is using pre-canned installations from a 3rd party (osboxes.org), rather than installing the OS himself in a VM. It's possible the VMware tools which are being installed are not compatible with the VMWare version he is using?


Likewise. The only exception was installing Ubuntu 14.04 on a Mac with VMWare Fusion 8...

I read that it was pre-canned as an appliance which is why I was asking which version of the OS it used. True, it may not be the right version for the VMware version he's using.

 

[mubs]

You can always boot into single user mode and reset the root password.

How would I boot into single user mode? I thought all desktop Linuxii booted into single user mode only?

Which version of Xubuntu is this? Installs I've done have come with the open source version of the VMware tools already installed as a package. I've not had to update them for things to work fine.

With Xubuntu (which was suggested to me for my portable computing environment on a USB stick), I downloaded from the Xubuntu site, was able to install really easily, install tools, etc. Absolutely no problem.

For playing with Ubuntu (related to my misgivings about W10), I downloaded the canned package for Ubuntu_14.04.3-32bit from osboxes. They make it very clear it that the canned package does not have VMWare tools installed. So compatibility with VMW Tools is not the issue. The problem arose because they don't include Tools and my installation tried to download and install it.

Re-reading the post history, mubs is using pre-canned installations from a 3rd party (osboxes.org), rather than installing the OS himself in a VM. It's possible the VMware tools which are being installed are not compatible with the VMWare version he is using?

I read that it was pre-canned as an appliance which is why I was asking which version of the OS it used. True, it may not be the right version for the VMware version he's using.

I was running Player 6.x. Whenever there was an update, it would ask me and I would let it. On a lark, I checked VMW's website and was surprised to see version 12 (the previous was v7, they skipped a bunch of version #s). Even manually asking ver 6.x to update told me there were no updates. Since I wasn't sure of the compatibility of my existing VMs (some of which are quite important to me), I first upgraded to 7, ran all the VMs, then upgraded to 12, then ran all the VMs again. I don't remember under what version I tried the canned Ubuntu 14.04. Which is why in an earlier post here or in the Linux Noob thread I said I would try it again now that my Player is on the latest version. Will do this in a couple of days.

Thanks all.

 

[sedrosken]

I'm not certain about how to get into a single-user mode, but I do know that all the *buntus and the things that base off them in essence heavily restrict access to the root user.

 

[Handruin]

I'm not certain about how to get into a single-user mode, but I do know that all the *buntus and the things that base off them in essence heavily restrict access to the root user.

I wouldn't say they heavily restrict access because it's very easy to unlock the root user in *buntu. They're just forcing you into a good habit of not using it all the time.

Steps to use Recovery Mode:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecoveryMode

 

[Howell]

And it is likely that you can't ssh into the box as root by default. Which is also a better practice.

 

[Handruin]

And it is likely that you can't ssh into the box as root by default. Which is also a better practice.

You're correct. You cannot by default.

 

[Mercutio]

Off the top of my head, at the grub prompt, hit e, then add the word "single" after the word "splash" in the grub config, then boot with F10. You'll come up in init mode 1 with a passwordless root prompt and you can sudo passwd root so it's something you actually know. Edits to the running grub config aren't saved.

Yes, it's scarily easy to bypass someone's root password if you have physical access to the machine and don't care if they know you did it.

 

[mubs]

Thanks guys.

 

[Stereodude]

Do I have this right that I now can install Windows 7 on a new machine, activate it, then clean install Windows 10 (Nov 2015 update) with the already activated Windows 7 key and have Windows 10 be happy and activated?

 

[sedrosken]

You can install Win10 with the 7 key directly now, is my understanding of the matter.

 

[Clocker]

My process was, install Win7. Do the free upgrade to 10. Create Win10 fresh install media. Wipe and fresh install 10. THen Win10 will automatically know the correct key for your hardware.

If you change hardware, you will need to call MS to get a new key from them, which they will provide without too much trouble (I had to do it). Just not as easy to deal with hardware changes as it was in the past with this upgrade path from a previous OS. Before you could do it online or sometimes they require the automated phone system. With Win10 that is upgraded from a previous OS, I needed to actually talk to someone.

If it is a new Win10, non-upgrade, it would be easier to change hardware and reactivate.

 

[Stereodude]

You can install Win10 with the 7 key directly now, is my understanding of the matter.

I don't think that's correct unless the Windows 7 key has already been activated on that hardware.

 

[CougTek]

Just the name Spartan sounds awful, like it is bare bones.

I prefer the software I use to be lean and efficient, not bloated. Hence, Spartan is a better name for a software than Fatso, Sumo or Buddha.

 

[Mercutio]

I don't think that's correct unless the Windows 7 key has already been activated on that hardware.

I've found that I can use Windows 8 product keys from fresh installs of the updated Windows 10 media from November.

 

[Stereodude]

8 or 8.1? Have you tried the same with 7?

 

[Mercutio]

8 or 8.1. And you have to start with the November 2015 Installation media, which I have but was generally pulled from public access. I haven't tried with 7 because Windows 7 keys actually have value in and of themselves whereas the only thing I'm ever going to do with a Windows 8 key from this point on is install Windows 10.

 

[Stereodude]

8 or 8.1. And you have to start with the November 2015 Installation media, which I have but was generally pulled from public access. I haven't tried with 7 because Windows 7 keys actually have value in and of themselves whereas the only thing I'm ever going to do with a Windows 8 key from this point on is install Windows 10.

Someone on Hardforum said they've successfully clean installed Windows 10 on new hardware with a Windows 7 key using the Nov 2015 media several times.

There are people in the FS section selling keys for Windows 7 Pro for $20-25 that the sellers swear up and down are real retail keys bought in bulk from MS. They've got a lot of positive heat and the buyers swear the keys work without issue. They're also selling keys to other Windows versions as well. It seems strange that you can use a Windows 7 Pro key to clean install Windows 10 Pro on a new system instead of buying a Windows 10 Pro key ($20 vs. $65 in the case of one seller) without at least first installing Windows 7 Pro, activating it and then clean installing Windows 10 Pro with the same key. I understand how the latter case makes works. The process of activating Windows 7 Pro effectively gives MS some sort of HW fingerprint which is recognized and causes Windows 10 to activate on the same HW and it's not really paying any attention to the key. When clean installing on new HW, MS can't recognize the HW, so the OS trusts or validates the key?

 

[Stereodude]

If I make a backup of a Windows 7 system, upgrade it to Windows 10, and then restore the backup of Windows 7... Can I clean install Windows 10 on the system sometime after 7/29/16 when the 1 year free offer is over and have everything be happy? Or should I do the clean install prior to 7/29/16 make sure it works, and then make a backup of the Windows 10 install for restoration later after 7/29/16 when I want to make the move from Windows 7 to 10? I presume the latter case should be basically foolproof with regards to Windows 10 being activated.

 

[Mercutio]

Correct. I have every confidence that it'll work just fine. Remember that a hardware ID is generated and passed during activation regardless, so they're probably just assuming that the key that passes the static "legit check" at install time is fine and can be assigned to the new Windows 10 box.
I've also been able to activate multi-use Windows keys from upgrade installs without issue.

 

[mubs]

8 or 8.1. And you have to start with the November 2015 Installation media, which I have but was generally pulled from public access.

Is there a later version available at MS for the same purpose?

BTW I have a couple of copies of Vista which I never used. What a waste.

 

[Howell]

They have value as stepping stones to 10, same as 7.

 

[Stereodude]

They have value as stepping stones to 10, same as 7.

Since when?

 

[mubs]

MS' website clearly says only W7 and later are eligible for free W10. I checked before posting.

 

[Howell]

Err, I don't know what I was thinking.

 

[sedrosken]

Honestly I think the only reason MS didn't extend the upgrade offer to users of Vista as well is because they are so few in number and have had almost nine years to upgrade now and still haven't.

 

[CougTek]

It's probably more because they prefer that people with computers more than 7 years old replace their systems rather than keep using them.

 

[Stereodude]

I figured they didn't want to mention the word Vista again anywhere.

 

[Mercutio]

Better theory is that Vista machines are much more likely to have an unsupported CPU configuration and so they can't take the upgrade anyway. Why get people's hopes up?

 

[mubs]

You have to start with the November 2015 Installation media, which I have but was generally pulled from public access.

Is there a later version of W-10 available at MS for the same purpose?

Do we know?

 

[Mercutio]

As far as I'm aware, the 1115 media is the newest release that was made available.