Windows 10

[Stereodude]

It's not free. Thousands of dollars of my time will be lost figuring out all the spyware and updating crap. That doesn't even include software compatibility issues. I was hoping to build a new 8.1 computer later thus year or early 2017, but read somewhere that MS will not allow it.

I have a hard time believing that anything that works with 8.1 won't work with 10, but I suppose there could be some corner cases. 8.1 and 7 have just about as much spying nonsense in them too unless you are super vigilant about what updates you install. I'm sure eventually MS is going to combine them with critical patches in such a way you have to take them.

You can still build a new Windows 7 or 8.1 computer. MS won't stop you. You just can't use Skylake (or later) hardware to do it.

 

[Mercutio]

Essentially all the telemetry crap from 10 has been back-ported to 7 and 8 at this point. Something like Spybot Anti-Beacon can be used to remove it temporarily, but only until Microsoft decides to toss it all in with another round of critical updates.
There are real problems with 10: search is a regression from 7/8 and the Start Menu and Metro apps sometimes just... stop working. But even with that, it's still better than what came before it.

 

[Mercutio]

You can still build a new Windows 7 or 8.1 computer. MS won't stop you. You just can't use Skylake (or later) hardware to do it.

Even that's not entirely true. Microsoft won't be providing drivers. That doesn't mean drivers won't be made available. Will Intel stop writing system drivers for old platforms? I'm guessing that it won't, if only because not every large corporate customer is going to want to move their complete hardware and common operating platform on Microsoft's timeline.

 

[Stereodude]

There are real problems with 10: search is a regression from 7/8 and the Start Menu and Metro apps sometimes just... stop working. But even with that, it's still better than what came before it.

What sort of search are you referring to? The search in File Explorer seemed the same to me in my brief messing with it. I don't use any metro apps, so I don't know about that one.

 

[Mercutio]

What sort of search are you referring to? The search in File Explorer seemed the same to me in my brief messing with it. I don't use any metro apps, so I don't know about that one.

I find that search from the Start Menu or in a File Explorer window:
1. Breaks a lot. The front end is a modern-style app. Modern Style apps seem to randomly stop working on Windows 10. We've talked about that.
2. Seems to prioritize internet results over local files (look at what comes up first). And the internet results are from Bing, which is just a big old steaming shit-cherry on top of everything else.
3. Doesn't like doing full text search in files outside your Documents and Onedrive Directories no matter what your Library or Indexing settings are.

Since those are all things that worked well or at least better in Windows Vista, 7 and 8, I'd call that a regression.

 

[Stereodude]

Can you take a screenshot of what you're talking about? Internet results? I must have that crap disabled because I don't see internet results.

 

[Mercutio]

It's pretty easy to see on my classroom PCs, since they're in a relatively vanilla state. Basically, you start typing and Internet Searches immediately start rolling in, in real time. Wait a few seconds and maybe some local files matching your results will show up, even if what you're searching is the direct, full name of an executable in your %PATH%.
I see it most often since I occasionally have to watch slow typists type slowly, but as far as I can tell, Windows 10 checks internet first, then local applications, local settings (CPL, MMC et al) and then other files. I base that on the order in which search results populate. It's more difficult for me to model on my personal laptop since my settings are also all customized and running on ridiculous hardware.

 

[ddrueding]

The app search from the start menu in 10 is my biggest complaint, as it very rarely works for me.

Example:

In Win 7, 8, or 8.1 I can hit the windows key and type "Photoshop", the program called Photoshop that is installed on my computer appears as the top result, pressing enter launches it.

In Win10 I do the same thing and it asks if I want to use Bing to search the internet for "Photoshop" without even offering the locally installed program as an option.

 

[Mercutio]

Yes that. Exactly.

 

[LunarMist]

WTF is wrong with MS, isn't there a way to disable searching on the internet? Isn't that what browsers are for?

 

[LunarMist]

Even that's not entirely true. Microsoft won't be providing drivers. That doesn't mean drivers won't be made available. Will Intel stop writing system drivers for old platforms? I'm guessing that it won't, if only because not every large corporate customer is going to want to move their complete hardware and common operating platform on Microsoft's timeline.

Is it just drivers or won't MS let you do anything? At this point I'm probably OK with installing an OS, updating only once and then disabling all further updates of any kind.

 

[Mercutio]

Is it just drivers or won't MS let you do anything? At this point I'm probably OK with installing an OS, updating only once and then disabling all further updates of any kind.

Right now, no one knows but I'm guessing Intel isn't going to keep making Ivy Bridge and 6-series chipsets just because 20% of their corporate customers standardized on Windows 7 and don't see a reason to switch.

 

[LunarMist]

I have the HAswells. What is after that and next?

 

[mubs]

Well, Office 2007 help always brings up internet search results instead of the local help. I find this irritating and frustrating, but don't know how to disable the internet search. The irony is that the internet search results are always crappy.

 

[Chewy509]

Well, Office 2007 help always brings up internet search results instead of the local help.

In the help system in Office 2010 (should be similar on '07), on the Help Window, in the bottom right corner you should see: Connected to Office Online (or similar). Click on that, and a context menu should appear that lets you "Show content only from this Computer". That will put the help system in Offline mode, which will use the local help system.

 

[Mercutio]

You can also choose not to use online help the first time MS Office is run for a given user profile. It's on one of those screens you click past because you really just wanted to do something in Excel.

 

[mubs]

Thanks guys. Done. It's an idotic default on MS' part.

Coming back to Win-10, Handy's link several posts back about making registry changes to force even wired internet connections to be metered connection seems to have worked wonders for me. Even Windows Update is concerned about my Internet usage!

 

[Howell]

That's wild. It works nearly the same but better for me and I don't remember making any flipping any specific switches. I search for "putty" and I get suggestions broken up by sections in half a second.

"Best Match", which would launch if I pressed enter, "Apps" = other guesses that are applications, "Store" = matched in the store, and then "Web". The order is inconsistent though. "fa" finds "FastStone" as a best match but then also offers to search the web for facebook, the next section is Apps, but the next 2 sections are folders and then documents. I had wondered whether the facebook search was a search within facebook (which I don't have installed) or a search for the word facebook ( this), so I clicked it. Now the web search appears at the top until I type enough to rule it out.Maybe the search indexer is corrupt or stopped and it doesn't know what programs are installed.

My Windows search service is set for Automatic (Delayed) and is running. Note: Mine is an upgrade from W7, not a clean install.

 

[Mercutio]

I've observed incorrect behavior on dozens of machines regardless of how they came to run Windows 10. Internet results load first. For me, it's nearly always easier to bring up a Run command or type the name of the program from a shell prompt than to bother using the Search box. Yes, Windows 10, I'm absolutely certain I meant to run Task Scheduler and not do a Bing for Schedule tools.

 

[ddrueding]

It also seems to be an either/or situation. On some installs (my Surface Pro) it works perfectly every time. On others (my Lenovo laptop Win10 install) it never works. Also doesn't work on Server 2016 TP4, BTW.

 

[mubs]

Time to upgrade daughter's W8.1 laptop to W10.

I plan to, from her laptop, download the ISO or Flash-bootable version and then upgrade offline to ensure it goes smoothly. This will not be a clean install but an upgrade. At some point in the future, I may or may not do a clean install from the downloaded media. I presume if I do, there will be no problems with activation because the upgrade would have been activated already.

I have purchased an SSD to install in her laptop.

Q1: Should I upgrade to W10 first on the HDD, then move that installation to the SSD, or should I move the W8.1 installation to the SSD first and then upgrade to W10?

Q2: In the former scenario, will there be a problem with W10 licensing once it is moved to the SSD since the OS drive has changed?

Many thanks!

 

[Chewy509]

Migrate the Win8 installation to the SSD, then upgrade. The rational, is that if the upgrade fails, you have a copy of the original win8 installation to fall back to.

Licensing, MS are happy either way.

 

[ddrueding]

I'd agree with Chewy on this one.

 

[mubs]

Thanks Chewy & DD.

 

[mubs]

Guys, I need help!

I did a Windows update and then went to defrag all the partitions in prep for the move to SSD. Was surprised to see Defrag list 4 extra partitions with odd names (more later). So I go into Disk Admin, and see this:



Note that all 6 unlabelled partitions have 100% free space !!

The Laptop came with C & D; I created E & F. What the hell are the 6 other partitions? I've never noticed anything odd about the HDD setup before. The W8.1 installation got corrupted about a year ago, and I had to use the recovery partition to put W8 back on the boot partition, then upgrade to W8.1 from MS. Maybe the monkeying with partitions happened then.

Defrag shows only 4 of them, labelled:
PBR_DRV
WINRE_DRV
\\?\Volume{registry key}\
\\?\Volume{registry key}\

Google god says PBR_DRV & WINRE_DRV are related to one-touch recovery and are installed by Lenovo.

So how do I handle the move of the OS to the SSD (240 GB)? My gameplan is:

1. Backup Data (E) and Misc (F) to an external and delete those partitions
2. Shrink the OS partition to 120 GB
3. Move the whole HDD contents to the SSD - including the mystery 6 partitions
4. See if W8.1 boots and works properly from the SSD
5. When satisfied with 4, upgrade to W10
6. When satisfied with 5, image the W10 installation and hose the rest of the partitions on the SSD since they are not relevant to W10. Except the EFI System Partition. I guess that will still be required.

Help? Suggestions? Comments?

Thanks!

 

[Tea]

Defrag a drive to prepare to move the data? Great thinking there Mubs!

(Remind me to carefully sand down, fill, prime and paint that old shed of mine to prepare for next week when the chap with the bulldozer arrives to knock it down and build a new one.)

Your best plan: just do a nice, clean install of Win 8 on the new drive and copy files across as desired..

I'd say your partition table is looking a bit sad. I wouldn't want to be basing my new install on those shonky, error-prone foundations. I really wouldnh't.

 

[Mercutio]

You probably could do the work you need with something like Partition Magic, but you're also risking the possibility of killing something the laptop want in order to boot. Starting over is going to be easier if you can take the time to do it.

 

[mubs]

Thanks Merc. I'm leaning towards a clean install of W10.

The laptop came with W8, and was upgraded to 8.1 via MS. So I guess the product key is for 8. If I use a tool to find the W8 product key (OEM I guess), and try a clean W10 install on the new SSD using that key, is it likely to activate?

 

[Mercutio]

For all two of the other Windows 10 users, if you're on the fast update release cadence, you can get Adblock Plus for Edge now.

 

[Stereodude]

The laptop came with W8, and was upgraded to 8.1 via MS. So I guess the product key is for 8. If I use a tool to find the W8 product key (OEM I guess), and try a clean W10 install on the new SSD using that key, is it likely to activate?

I you reinstall clean on a system that has already has Windows 10 happily running on it, it will activate automatically. During install you can skip entering any key.

 

[Howell]

Some of the partitions are actually needed and we'll reappear on fresh install, but some are related to MS recovery environment (PBR=push button reset) and Lenovos particular implementation of it. Since you are moving to Windows 10, the OS install files are readily available as well as the Lenovo tools which I happen to like. So no real need to keep it on the hard drive.

 

[mubs]

Thanks guys.

I you reinstall clean on a system that has already has Windows 10 happily running on it, it will activate automatically. During install you can skip entering any key.

SD, you already mentioned this earlier in this thread. I have also clean-installed W10 using a previously unused W7 Pro Technet key.

My question was, can I extract the Win 8 key from the laptop, and directly clean install W10 (on the new SSD) using that key for activation? If I can, I save one W7 key.

Some of the partitions are actually needed and we'll reappear on fresh install, but some are related to MS recovery environment (PBR=push button reset) and Lenovos particular implementation of it. Since you are moving to Windows 10, the OS install files are readily available as well as the Lenovo tools which I happen to like. So no real need to keep it on the hard drive.

I did figure that I wouldn't need the additional partitions for W10 since once it was installed, I would image the installation and could always go back to the image if needed. Daughter initially resisted a clean install since a ton of progs will have to be re-installed; I've almost brainwashed her into believing this is the best course of action; to bite the bullet up front.

 

[Stereodude]

My question was, can I extract the Win 8 key from the laptop, and directly clean install W10 (on the new SSD) using that key for activation? If I can, I save one W7 key.

I don't know if you can use a previously used key for a different Windows flavor or not. But, if you want to save your W7 Pro key why not run the upgrade, make sure it's activated, wipe it, and the clean install? It'll take an extra half hour or so, but you can guarantee no problems and you can keep your W7 Pro key.

 

[mubs]

Sigh. You're right SD, that's what I'll probably do. Thanks.

 

[Mercutio]

Something surprisingly, shockingly non-trivial in Windows 10: Restoring the default Start Menu tiles.

The powershell import-startlayout command is broken on Windows 10. I mean it just doesn't work for normal invocation. You can use it during a Deployment scenario, but it'll fail if you try to run it interactively or as part of a script. Even if it worked, it only changes the Layout for newly-created accounts, not existing ones.

The files that make up the Tile Layout are %AppData%\Local\TileDataLayer\ and are permanently in use by a Local System via TileDataModelSvc, which is one of those things that is flagged un-stoppable, unpausable and un-alterable by the OS. Even if I elevate to a cmd or Powershell with System-level privileges (say, with psexec -s), it seemingly doesn't want to stop or get disabled. Changing this incredibly minor data is on par with trying to change the logged-in user account's ntuser.dat file using filesystem tools.

There's a facility for controlling some parts of the tile configuration from GPOs, but of course that's off the table for non-Pro Windows.

The solution seems to be to copy the files from another account that's not logged in, to the account that needs reset while IT'S not logged in. Which means setting up a scheduled task or something completely non-interactive. It's not a huge deal, but I can't believe how little control I have over this.

 

[Stereodude]

My biggest annoyance with Windows 10 is the that the modified dates of folders don't always update. NextPVR record shows to .ts files that are placed in existing folders. Some of the time the view in File Explorer will show the folders with the dates corresponding to the newest files. Most of the time it doesn't until another program accesses those files. Doing a refresh doesn't help. It's a pain because I want to see what folders have a new recording in them, and the dates aren't updating.

XP x64 didn't have this issue.

 

[sedrosken]

Either I'm not running into this issue or I'm just not noticing. The last version you listed as it working properly on being XP x64 makes me curious... does 7 or 8 have the same issue?

 

[Stereodude]

Either I'm not running into this issue or I'm just not noticing. The last version you listed as it working properly on being XP x64 makes me curious... does 7 or 8 have the same issue?

I've not noticed it on 7 or 8.1. I only have one 8.1 machine. I have several with Windows 7. I should point out I haven't tried running NextPVR on any of them. The prior system that also ran NextPVR had XP x64 as the OS. I think it may have something to do with user accounts. I believe the NextPVR software recording feature runs as a service which means it's not run as my account which may partially explain the behavior, but I can't account for why the dates update some of the time. Sometimes after I manually go into a directory I know should have a new file in it and then browse back up one level the date on the folders containing new recordings from the prior night will update, but not always.

 

[Howell]

You could run the service under your account as a test.

 

[sechs]

Has anyone else run into this problem?

For a period of time just before my screen saver kicks in, my screen goes blank. The monitor is still on and awake, but the display is black. Moving the mouse doesn't bring back the display, however hitting a key on my keyboard does.

This is a clean install of Win10, but I have futzed with the power settings, so I don't know what, if anything, I may have changed to cause this.