Windows 10

Handruin

Administrator
Joined
Jan 13, 2002
Messages
12,888
Location
USA
I haven't read a single positive thing in there about your new HP. Why keep it even at $500? There are so many better options.
 

Santilli

Hairy Aussie
Joined
Jan 27, 2002
Messages
5,077
It's already taken back.
Followed your advice, and I agree.Kind of funny that a 300 dollar chrome book works better then a HP, costing twice as much.
 

Santilli

Hairy Aussie
Joined
Jan 27, 2002
Messages
5,077
Ten years ago certain people suggested that I stop using enterprise software and hardware, and use consumer stuff, since it had a shorter compatibility cycle etc.
i took your advice, and David was kind enough to set me up with his excellent, cutting edge stuff.
End result is 10 years later, my video card is still running, though it eats tons of power, and is 10 times slower then what I just put in the box.
The motherboard was also heavy duty, and has survived as well.
I just moved everything into a new version of the case.

The point is also that without competition, Intel hasn't been upgrading chips, etc.

End result is 10 years later, I'm still running Windows 7 Ultimate, on a chip that is still half as fast as cutting edge stuff right now, and plenty adequate for what I do.

So, even though I service a couple Windows 8 machines, I haven't worked with 10 Home, etc.

This HP was pretty amazing, because it sucked as badly as some of the stuff from the 90's, yet at the same time, the specs, i5 8th generation 12 gb ram, most indicated that it would run 10 quickly and well.
Such was not the case.

I approach this sort of like trying to find a woman you like. If you don't bother talking with women in general, when the one you want pops up, it's like a job interview, you suck, and don't get it, because you get nervous.

But, if you practice interviews, dating, whatever, when the job, or woman comes along you really want, you recognize it, and are able to make the connection or get the job.

Also, HP has in the past, made quality stuff. The 4000 series printers are still going strong, 20 years later, and they have retained value as refurbished products because for various reasons, HP printers now offered, pretty much are terrible.

My concern is HP is so clueless that they actually have such terrible components, and startup procedures. It's sort of a thing where they make a product, and expect to sell it, no matter what, and the consumer is stuck with it.

I find that sad, and negotiating this mire of shit to find a quality product is a challenge, since most companies don't make value, high quality, 17.3 inch laptops.

I never thought i would be using a Chromebook, by Acer, as a standard for performance, buiild quality, etc.
 

Newtun

Storage is good
Joined
Nov 21, 2002
Messages
275
Location
Virginia
But HP may be cluefull. They and CostCo work out a big deal for a proprietary laptop line with impressive-seeming hw specs, and lots of CostCo customers buy in and don't have the background to realize how they've been gypped.
 

Handruin

Administrator
Joined
Jan 13, 2002
Messages
12,888
Location
USA
Ten years ago certain people suggested that I stop using enterprise software and hardware, and use consumer stuff, since it had a shorter compatibility cycle etc.
i took your advice, and David was kind enough to set me up with his excellent, cutting edge stuff.
End result is 10 years later, my video card is still running, though it eats tons of power, and is 10 times slower then what I just put in the box.
The motherboard was also heavy duty, and has survived as well.
I just moved everything into a new version of the case.

The point is also that without competition, Intel hasn't been upgrading chips, etc.


End result is 10 years later, I'm still running Windows 7 Ultimate, on a chip that is still half as fast as cutting edge stuff right now, and plenty adequate for what I do.

So, even though I service a couple Windows 8 machines, I haven't worked with 10 Home, etc.
I don't recall that suggestion but I also feel like your definition of enterprise hardware/software may not be properly aligned with the market. I'm sure that could be a debate on its own. In the past 10 years Intel has upgraded its chips and made significant advancements. If they had more competition perhaps us as consumers would have seen more advancement but to think that in 10 years little has happened isn't really true.

This HP was pretty amazing, because it sucked as badly as some of the stuff from the 90's, yet at the same time, the specs, i5 8th generation 12 gb ram, most indicated that it would run 10 quickly and well.
Such was not the case.
Those hardware specs with a Core i5 and 12GB RAM actually will run a computer quite well. There are many systems on the market that use the i5 because it's a great balance between budget and performance. Whatever HP did to fuck that up is 100% on them and not on the specs of those chips or Windows 10 for that matter.

I approach this sort of like trying to find a woman you like. If you don't bother talking with women in general, when the one you want pops up, it's like a job interview, you suck, and don't get it, because you get nervous.

But, if you practice interviews, dating, whatever, when the job, or woman comes along you really want, you recognize it, and are able to make the connection or get the job.
This analogy doesn't really make sense to me because there is tons of information freely available in both audio/video and written form that provide you with ample feedback to make a good decision on a piece of computer hardware. In addition to that, if you happened to buy a piece of hardware and experience it first-hand, you can simply return it with little to no consequence. You can't do any of this with a woman. Well...maybe some if one were to specifically pay for companionship but the consequence is that you'll likely be out of a significant amount of money.

Also, HP has in the past, made quality stuff. The 4000 series printers are still going strong, 20 years later, and they have retained value as refurbished products because for various reasons, HP printers now offered, pretty much are terrible.
In my personal and professional experience I cannot agree with the statement that HP made quality stuff. With the small exceptions of their HP ProCurve Networking equipment and their enterprise Blade Server C7000 chassis and servers. Many of their rack servers are bloated and slow and plain annoying to use as are the majority of their past consumer-level desktop stuff.

My concern is HP is so clueless that they actually have such terrible components, and startup procedures. It's sort of a thing where they make a product, and expect to sell it, no matter what, and the consumer is stuck with it.

I find that sad, and negotiating this mire of shit to find a quality product is a challenge, since most companies don't make value, high quality, 17.3 inch laptops.

I never thought i would be using a Chromebook, by Acer, as a standard for performance, buiild quality, etc.
Overall there are more review sites and YouTube channels these days that you should be able to easily fall into a decent laptop without much effort. Then head over to Slickdeals and look for good prices.
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
14,980
Location
USA
Greg was always at one extreme or another. IIRC it was suggested that a mid-grade or high-grade modern desktop system (back then) was better than the archaic enterprise stuff of even earlier times. The Dudering built him a decent setup, but I would not expect anyone to keep using it forever.
Buying too cheap is not a good idea. Last, but not least, I have no idea how computer gear is similar to being rejected by a potential partner. :rolleyes:
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
14,980
Location
USA
Not to belabor the point, but it is a consumer grade HP... Why would you even consider one of them let alone buy it?
In 2017 I helped a friend buy a 17" HP laptop at the BestBuy. I think it was on sale for $1000 (probably being closed out).
IIRC it has a 7th generation i5, 8GB RAM and a 1TB HDD. The display is a fairly decent 1920x1080. It has one USB-C and several more USB 3.0 ports. The boot time is about 20-30 seconds and performance is fine for the user, who likes the number keypad and uses it for business purposes.
 

Chewy509

Wotty wot wot.
Joined
Nov 8, 2006
Messages
2,971
Location
Gold Coast Hinterland, Australia
Likewise, as sd mentions, HP stuff orientated towards business users tends to be decent, stuff orientated towards mass consumers can be very hit/miss...

HP Probooks and Elitebooks tend to be decent across the board, but their Pavilion can be very hit/miss (especially the Intel ones, the AMD based ones tend to be ok, but never great). The only problem I've seen recently (and this extends to Dell and now Lenovo as well), many of the entry level business stuff tends to be rebranded consumer stuff, so even the entry level business stuff can be fairly poor in some instances...

As for Windows 10, I'm personally finding as time goes on, the experience of booting/running Windows 10 from a HDD (especially 4500rpm laptop drives) is becoming worse... It's like MS don't test their stuff on older equipment or slower HDDs to see what the performance impact of their "new" features are...

I only recommend looking for a laptop with SSD as a minimum these days. (having NVMe is better though).
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
14,980
Location
USA
As for Windows 10, I'm personally finding as time goes on, the experience of booting/running Windows 10 from a HDD (especially 4500rpm laptop drives) is becoming worse... It's like MS don't test their stuff on older equipment or slower HDDs to see what the performance impact of their "new" features are...

I only recommend looking for a laptop with SSD as a minimum these days. (having NVMe is better though).
MS doesn't seem to test Windows much if the recent screw-ups are any indication. I doubt that they care about performance with HDDs. :(
 

Santilli

Hairy Aussie
Joined
Jan 27, 2002
Messages
5,077
For me, I'm at a point where I don't feel bad about trying a laptop, and returning it with Costco.
It's pretty clear these companies are trying to move old, garbage components, and get high prices for them.

What I've been looking for is a 17..3 inch, with a SSD, NVMe would be nice, but not necessary, 1080 screen, great keyboard, and easy to type on.
I find that given those components, for what I do, the processor, ram, and memory shouldn't be an issue. Price in the 500-700 range.
That plays video, and streaming video...

I don't see why these companies keep trying to push mechanical drives in laptops, when SSD's have become dirt cheap.
On the other hand, if you are using motherboards with substandard chips, you don't want people finding out their bus is throttled at 50-75mb/sec by a 2 dollar motherboard chip, and you have a huge inventory of old mechanical drives...

This issue also makes me think that even though the specs on my so's Dell are pretty good for the 7th gen chip, and ram, perhaps the reason Dell
doesn't want you to install an SSD is the motherboard has throttled bus speeds.

Buying a 'gaming' quality laptop requires fans, a ton of heat, and it's possible the components won't last long.
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
14,980
Location
USA
Maybe Panasonic still makes the Toughbooks for law enforcement/military needs, but I think their consumer/business laptops are long gone.
The Toughbooks are priced for their market and not designed for watching videos or whatever you do.
 

Santilli

Hairy Aussie
Joined
Jan 27, 2002
Messages
5,077
53 and 54 are pretty close. However,
the only one in real price range is the 53. 14" screen.
Not great for old people.
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
14,980
Location
USA
CF53 is archaic. I think your price range is unrealistic and you can find something decent with a 17" 1080 IPS display for about $1000 at a good sale.
 

Santilli

Hairy Aussie
Joined
Jan 27, 2002
Messages
5,077
2011 launch date CF53.
2014 for 4th version.

Most of the bigger screened laptops are using standard hard drives.
They have NOT reflected the low prices in the SSD market in their pricing.

Now, thanks to HP, I'll make sure the device has a SSD, and the other components are capable of handling the speeds.

Panasonic has never put a substandard component in anything I've used from them. Their prices reflect that...
They too, along with refurbishers, are overcharging for SSD's.
 

Santilli

Hairy Aussie
Joined
Jan 27, 2002
Messages
5,077
Not much difference in specs between the 53 and 54. Same, but in a lighter case, and the 54 costs twice as much, or 3X.

Time is always a good thing, as prices drop.

Isn't pre-tax time a good buying time, as prices drop????

Problem is inventory isn't moving, so a lot of this stuff has out dated components...
 

Santilli

Hairy Aussie
Joined
Jan 27, 2002
Messages
5,077
I don't recall that suggestion but I also feel like your definition of enterprise hardware/software may not be properly aligned with the market. I'm sure that could be a debate on its own. In the past 10 years Intel has upgraded its chips and made significant advancements. If they had more competition perhaps us as consumers would have seen more advancement but to think that in 10 years little has happened isn't really true.



Those hardware specs with a Core i5 and 12GB RAM actually will run a computer quite well. There are many systems on the market that use the i5 because it's a great balance between budget and performance. Whatever HP did to fuck that up is 100% on them and not on the specs of those chips or Windows 10 for that matter.


This analogy doesn't really make sense to me because there is tons of information freely available in both audio/video and written form that provide you with ample feedback to make a good decision on a piece of computer hardware. In addition to that, if you happened to buy a piece of hardware and experience it first-hand, you can simply return it with little to no consequence. You can't do any of this with a woman. Well...maybe some if one were to specifically pay for companionship but the consequence is that you'll likely be out of a significant amount of money.


In my personal and professional experience I cannot agree with the statement that HP made quality stuff. With the small exceptions of their HP ProCurve Networking equipment and their enterprise Blade Server C7000 chassis and servers. Many of their rack servers are bloated and slow and plain annoying to use as are the majority of their past consumer-level desktop stuff.



Overall there are more review sites and YouTube channels these days that you should be able to easily fall into a decent laptop without much effort. Then head over to Slickdeals and look for good prices.
My mistake. I checked the passmark stats, and in the same price range, the current chips are fast enough to consider replacement, meaning well over 3x the current chip I have, for the same price range.
That said, for what I do, I see no reason to upgrade, until something breaks, or I decide to game some more...

The price chart for the 940 indicates what I was talking about. It held value around 800 down to 500 dollars from 2011, and didn't really drop off to 300 until last year, when AMD started competing again.
 
Last edited:

sedrosken

Allergic to Sunlight
Joined
Nov 20, 2013
Messages
1,010
Location
The Sticks
Basically it "plugged the holes" so to speak in terms of telemetry, or at least as much as can be done under Windows. I'm assuming the free version will no longer be updated, which means it'll rapidly become out of date and near-if-not-completely-useless.
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
14,980
Location
USA
Anti-beacon is available for $10. I suspect the MS already sends the data by other trafficking that the Spybots cannot control.
 

sechs

Storage? I am Storage!
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
4,659
Location
Left Coast
In addition to being free, Spybot Anti-Beacon was dead easy to use.

I could talk people through downloading and setting it up without much fuss.
 

Santilli

Hairy Aussie
Joined
Jan 27, 2002
Messages
5,077
Anyway to get a free copy of Windows 10 to copy onto a Dell laptop?
Seems they imbed the activation code on the motherboard?
 

Chewy509

Wotty wot wot.
Joined
Nov 8, 2006
Messages
2,971
Location
Gold Coast Hinterland, Australia
Did you install W10 onto it any time? If so, just grab the latest ISO from MS and install. It should activate, as the prior installation/activation would have been recorded by MS...

Otherwise, keep 8.1 or fork over some cash for W10 upgrade. (IIRC you can purchase direct from MS online store). or...
 
Top