Windows 8

Mercutio

Fatwah on Western Digital
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You basically have to have a Core i-series CPU to get the features required to make Hyper-V go. In typical Intel fashion, it's not enabled line-wide but rather an artificial point of differentiation between chips.
I've also found that many, MANY consumer laptops can't enable virtualization extensions even though their CPUs technically support them, because the option doesn't exist in the BIOS. Last time I taught Server 2008 stuff in a classroom, I had hoped to let my students use their own notebooks but out of a dozen Pavilions, Satellites, Inspirons and Travelmates, the only system that handled the VM properly was a S*ny i7 machine.
 

CougTek

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Ok, Windows 8 just pissed me off solid a few minutes ago. I applied my Media Center key and it started making modification to the OS, but without any warning, it restarted the computer. No message, no choice, nothing. I had remote sessions opened and didn't have the change to properly close the applications I was using at that moment. That's how Microsft thanks me for buying their new operating system?

Fuck you Microsoft.
 

P5-133XL

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Ok, Windows 8 just pissed me off solid a few minutes ago. I applied my Media Center key and it started making modification to the OS, but without any warning, it restarted the computer. No message, no choice, nothing. I had remote sessions opened and didn't have the change to properly close the applications I was using at that moment. That's how Microsft thanks me for buying their new operating system?

Fuck you Microsoft.

When I applied mine, It gave an immediate warning not to run anything as it was being installed and that it would reboot shortly. Within a minute it locked up (mouse froze but the HD light blinking madly) with the only word on the screen being rebooting. I gave it an hour then manually pressed the reset button and it finished installing.
 
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Tannin

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What is a media center key and why are you using it?

That would be my question also, though purely rhetorical. I just don't understand why anyone would want to use Media Centre when there are several excellent third-party packages that are so much smaller, faster, and all-round nicer to use.

Also, if you login as administrator, you have absolutely no access to any metro apps.

You mean there is one worth using? I have yet to hear rumour of even one that offers anything of consequence you can't already get in a non-monopoly package in the ordinary way. (Not that this invalidates your bug report, of course.)
 

P5-133XL

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TYou mean there is one worth using? I have yet to hear rumour of even one that offers anything of consequence you can't already get in a non-monopoly package in the ordinary way. (Not that this invalidates your bug report, of course.)

No If you are logged on as administrator, Windows 8 will not allow any metro application to be run at all (It refuses to open them). I.e. Microsoft must think of them as holes in the security system. I suppose that the next step will be to prevent the administrator from executing any program or script except applications/scripts that come with the OS itself.
 

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Fatwah on Western Digital
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The App Store relies on an affirmative ID system. It could just be that they don't want people installing App Store apps as administrator because it's semi-anonymous or might associate the app with the wrong account.

Plus, Microsoft doesn't really want ANYONE using the named administrator account on the desktop any more.
 

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Fatwah on Western Digital
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Someone asked me today how to cut/copy/paste in the Metro interface. I'd never tried and my own strategies for dealing with Win8 involve pretending Metro does not exist.
I can select one or even multiple files. But the UI's only option once files have been selected is to delete them. No cut/copy/paste and none of the usual keyboard shortcuts do anything.

Does that seem like a silly oversight to anyone else?
 

ddrueding

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Yes it does. Pretending Metro doesn't exist is my preferred method as well. The only time I run into it is when I'm previewing pictures and haven't changed the default program yet. Anyone else notice that the default Metro picture viewer doesn't support left/right arrows to switch to other pictures in the same folder?
 

MaxBurn

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Yes it does. Pretending Metro doesn't exist is my preferred method as well. The only time I run into it is when I'm previewing pictures and haven't changed the default program yet. Anyone else notice that the default Metro picture viewer doesn't support left/right arrows to switch to other pictures in the same folder?

Is the win 7 style picture viewer still there? That picture viewer was one of the big things I liked from 7.
 

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I'm a big fan of XnView, but I've found that messing with the default image viewer in Windows can break the association that makes Explorer generate thumbnails for folders that are in icon view.
 

Tannin

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Hmmm ... you know, I'm finding it difficult to really object to placing restrictions on the named administrator account .... you see such screaming horrors come in where all you can really do is marvel that the system ever actually worked and the user still actually has a bank account. On the other hand, if you have logged in as administrator, you probably want and need access to third-party tools, so on balance, a bad idea.

As to dealing with Metro by pretending that it does not exist .... err ... you mean there is another way?
 

Tannin

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Worth telling this, I guess .....

Bloke bought a system last week. We went for Win 8 with Classic Shell and ObjectDock. User is wedded to Outlook, has an Office 10 pro licence.

So we fiddled about for a long time doing the data transfer from his old beast - a Pentium IV 1700, would you believe! I used my office machine for the transfer from his twin IDE drives to my big SATA drive, then plugged the user's new 2TB SATA into my machine to copy stuff across to there. (Can't go direct because the old girl doesn't have SATA and the new one doesn't have IDE. My workshop machine - by design - has both.)

PROBLEM!

I set the new beast up to use AHCI, on the theory that it will be faster and with native support in Win 8, trouble-free. (I never, ever enable AHCI on XP 'cause there s no native support for it.) Copied the data over onto the new drive no worries .... but the new machine can't read it! So far as the new machine is concerned, the 150GB of data I just copied onto the drive does not exist! Turn off AHCI and it can't boot! Plug the new drive back into my machine, it is all there. Anyway, I pulled my own drive out and connected it up to the new machine in an external USB caddy. Slow but it worked, eventually.

Did all the Windows updates, installed assorted third-party browsers and such like as usual. Transferred the Outlook data, got the account working OK to receive, set it correctly to send - can't test directly because it's physically connected to my cable rig, not his satellite dish, but so far as I can tell, all set right. Retrieved the keys and unregistered his stupid Trend Micro AV, installed it on the new box. Tested. That was last week.

This week the machine is back. He's been onto his ISP support desk, and they have screwed it horribly. Apparently he had some sort of problem, presumably sending mail 'cause I know for a fact he could receive OK. For some reason completely incomprehensible to me, they have "fixed" that by:
  • 1: Switching him from Microsoft Outlook 2010 to whatever that pox-ridden toy email Metro app is called.
  • 2: Telling him that the system won't work because "Windows 8 doesn't do POP3". (Which is rubbish, he is using Outlook, not Metrotoymail.)
  • 3: Failing to explain how the hell an inability to use POP3 can cause a problem with sending email!
  • 4: Failing to explain how it is possible for them, a 21st century ISP, to offer an email service that does not include IMAP as well as POP and SMTP. (Which is what they claimed.)
  • 5: Further failing to explain how their "IMAP non-capable" mail server could, in fact, collect its mail perfectly well using IMAP, as I saw for myself before the system ever left the building!
  • 6: Requiring him, to set up a new live.com/hotmail account which he doesn't like, use, or understand, and which does not contain any of his mail 'cause it's not the address all his friends have.
  • 7: probably some other rubbish I forget

Making it all worse, his idiot son (20-something but none the brighter for all that) has been playing, and we are now booting into Metro and all the stupid live tiles are flashing away like mad and his internet bill is huge already.

But that's not all: Windows 8, for reasons best known to itself, has started downloading updates for Office. Now I religiously do all the Windows updates, browser updates, Flash player, Java, media players, AV software updates, the lot. But I didn't think to do Office updates 'cause (a) who cares anyway? and (b) I so seldom see MS Office outside of the corporates these days that I tend to forget about it. (Most people seem to have switched to Open Office or Google Docs - presumably 'cause they don't like the stupid interface in Office 2007 and up.) Anyway, Windows 8, apparently without being told, started getting every damn Office 2010 update. More data use charges for my mate! We are talking serious dollars now - satellite providers charge for data as though they had to dole it out in a solid gold teaspoon.

It gets worse: some of the updates failed to install, so they looped, around and around and around. He tries to deal with this by individually hand-installing 28 different updates.

Anyway, I looked at the machine today. It turns out that there were three issues:

1: Office 10 Service Pack 1 hangs on install. I tried downloading the standalone installer, same thing. This turns out to be a Trend Micro AV bug. Turn off Trend Micro and it installs fine.

2: Two or three different One Note update bugs clog up the install and make it fail. One at a time I find them and tell the stupid update program to ignore them and never to mention them in polite company again. Hell, neither my customer nor I even know what One Note is! Well, I know that it's some useless thing which no-one uses and it comes with some of the Office versions and I remember looking it up once just to see what it did and what it was good for (turned out to be nothing, or at least nothing worth remembering).

3: Outlook account settings borked. Some fiddling, and not a little swearing at the asinine ribbon UI "feature" which is primarily designed to make obvious functions difficult to find, results in a working mail system again. Partly because it's brute-force simple and I like brute-force simple, partly because this is a customer who likes simple and isn't good at complex or subtle computer stuff, but mostly just to stick it up the moron ISP help desk who said Windows 8 doesn't do POP3, I set it up to use POP. Works perfectly, of course.

But then again, it worked perfectly when I sent it out last week. Who knows what next week will bring?
 

P5-133XL

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Hmmm ... you know, I'm finding it difficult to really object to placing restrictions on the named administrator account .... you see such screaming horrors come in where all you can really do is marvel that the system ever actually worked and the user still actually has a bank account. On the other hand, if you have logged in as administrator, you probably want and need access to third-party tools, so on balance, a bad idea.

I know Microsoft wants no one to use the Administrator account and I really understand their reasons. That being said, It's been many years since I've had to deal with any malware on that account for I just don't do risky behaviors.

I've run the same account since the very beginning through lots of Windows versions. I really don't want to have to start over from scratch with a new account. Reinstalling and transfering all the data that has accumulated over years is a time consuming pain that I don't want to do unless it is absolutely necessary. The lack of Metro apps, is not enough of a reason...

The only reason I even noticed the Lack of Metro apps is because occasionally I have to wait for something to complete and I distract myself with Hearts/Solitare/Minefield and the Windows 8 upgrade removed them all. The have been replaced with the games app that I can't run. It just annoys me that I have to create a secondary user and logon to it to distract myself while whatever is running on the administrator account finishes in the background. Further, because I'm now using a different account, I can't get feedback for when the activity finishes so I end up wasting time.
 

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Fatwah on Western Digital
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[*] 4: Failing to explain how it is possible for them, a 21st century ISP, to offer an email service that does not include IMAP as well as POP and SMTP. (Which is what they claimed.)

Not to take away from an otherwise breathtaking rant, but assloads of ISPs don't support IMAP. The usual bullshit excuse is that they don't have storage or bandwidth to support that application. Here in the US, large ISPs by and large go one step further by directing users to webmail services (slathered with ads, natch) without informing them that the option might exist to use a local mail client. Comcast, the largest single ISP, only offers IMAP to business customers.

One presumes that there's a local equivalent to Gmail, though. Gmail DOES support IMAP and moreover, it also supports sending mail as an alternative identity, collecting mail from POP3 inboxes and all manner of security BS, all with a fair minimum of fuss. Microsoft's new Outlook.com email service is also quite flexible in that regard.

So rather than deal with breathtaking intransigence and stupidity, I suggest to almost everyone I see who is still using an ISP's email service, that they register with Google or Microsoft instead. It's a good idea for pretty much everyone.
 

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Fatwah on Western Digital
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Battery life on my T420 appears to be about half what it was under Windows 7, even with current drivers for everything. I'm investigating, but one likely culprit seems to be the nvidia switchable graphics. I note that all my multi-monitor controls only function properly in the nvidia control panel, but not the Windows-native one.
 

ddrueding

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Interesting. I just updated my T410 to Windows 8 Pro. It has nVidia NVS 3100M; not sure if that is switchable graphics or just dedicated.
 

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Fatwah on Western Digital
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It's theoretically switchable if both show up in device manager, I think. I'm not sure which is being used by my notebook but I do know that it's hot on the rear left side and that the system fan is running a lot more than it was under 7. I've reinstalled most of the Lenovo apps just to see if that fixes anything but so far I haven't seen anything.

I also think it might not really be sleeping/hibernating when I tell it, since I'm seeing substantial changes in power levels when I leave it unattended for an hour or so.
 

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OK, I found part of the problem: If I use the "sleep" mode from the Settings Charm, my Thinkpad does not ever transition to Hibernate but rather seems to stay in the instant-on state even after six hours without use. If I tell the system to Hibernate using Classic Shell (Hibernate is not one of my choices from the Charm), it seems to Hibernate properly.

Jury is still out on the switchable graphics issue.

My other Windows 8 machine might also be having these issues, but the difference between having a battery that lasts for 1:15 and :45 isn't THAT big. On my T420, it's the difference between having a four hour battery and and six to eight hour battery, so it's very, very obvious.
 

mubs

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I read somewhere that Win 8 never really shuts down when you ask it to; it just goes into some kind of deep sleep, which is why it "boots" so quickly. I believe you have to write a script for it to power off.
 

mubs

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I suggest to almost everyone I see who is still using an ISP's email service, that they register with Google or Microsoft instead. It's a good idea for pretty much everyone.

The first time I faced this problem (got off Compuserve), I started using a 3rd party email forwarding service for ~ $15 a year and handing out that email address to everyone. At will one could change where the 3rd party forwarded your mail to. Subsequently I discontinued the 3rd party service and went with web-based email.

I can't understand numerous friends who use their work email for personal stuff, and every two years or so send an email announcing a change to a new email ID at their new employer. Personally I think it's incredibly stupid to use work email for personal stuff.
 

ddrueding

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Owning your own domain is ~$7/yr. That is permanent; you own the whole thing and can do whatever you want with it. I've even set this up for non-geeky individuals that are tired of changing their e-mail address every few years.
 

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Fatwah on Western Digital
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I read somewhere that Win 8 never really shuts down when you ask it to; it just goes into some kind of deep sleep, which is why it "boots" so quickly.

As far as I can tell that is correct, but when I choose "Sleep" my notebook used to go in to hibernate after some additional period of inactivity and it does not seem to be doing that.

Also, hey, has anyone looked at the mess that is Windows 8's built-in backup software? Windows 7's actually works pretty well if you have the Pro version. In Windows 8, the tool to do full backups is actually called "Windows 7 Backup" and hidden down in a corner of the also-very-poorly-named "File History" which is name of Winodws 8's backup functions. Holy crap that's stupid.
 

P5-133XL

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As far as I can tell the Win8 backup is identical to Win7 backup and it is much easier to get to than your description. Go to the control panel and click on the Windows 7 file recovery icon.

I don't consider Win8's File history feature to be a proper backup.

P.S. Win7 backup has never been exactly a joy to use.
 

P5-133XL

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I'm finding Win 8 to be a lot less stable than Win 7 i.e. lots of crashes. I do have to admit that the non-clean upgrade from Win 7 that I used may be a significant factor.
 

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Fatwah on Western Digital
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As far as I can tell the Win8 backup is identical to Win7 backup and it is much easier to get to than your description.

Windows 7's backup was a substantial improvement on Vista's or any other desktop version of Windows, but File History and "Windows 7 File Recovery" is a step back, if only because of the confusion of nomenclature. If you use the search charm for "backup", File History is what comes up. Nothing about the other thing at all, particularly not with a nice, easily-understood name like "Backup and Recovery Center."
The functionality is there and in the end that's what is important, but I'm sure it will cause no end of confusion for end users.
 

mubs

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I believe you have to write a script to truly power off a Win 8 machine. I can find the source for you if you want the details.
 

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Fatwah on Western Digital
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I know how to work the shutdown command. But power management should be doing something that it is not.

In other good news, as of Tuesday, ninite's installer will once again replace Windows Defender with either Avast or Avira. That makes me happy, since Defender is a giant pile of suck.
 

P5-133XL

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I really do not like that Win8 does not support Microsoft Security Essentials. Though, When I google there is supposed to be a beta of MSE that works with Win8. I have not yet tried it.

I agree that Defender sucks.
 

timwhit

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What is the difference between Defender and MSE? My Windows 8 computer has Endpoint Protection on it, which looks a lot like MSE.
 

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Fatwah on Western Digital
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Defender and MSE are fundamentally the same thing as Endpoint Protection, other than the management aspect. They both block or remove the same viruses and malware and use the same definitions and they all have for-shit heuristics, which is the biggest problem with all of the above.
 

mubs

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Am thinking I'm glad I stayed with Win-7... Never been one to be on the bleeding edge. Last wave of the trailing edge, in fact :)
 

LunarMist

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Yeah, reading all this Windows 8 stuff makes me cringe. I'm sure every new MS cluster**** is fascinating to people in IT, but I just started on Win 7 in October 2012. It will probably last the rest of my days.
 
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