Windows 8

[Howell]

Apparently, getting windows to run on hardware with limited resources is going to be what pushes them toward efficiency and modularity. What Linux had going for it out of necessity.

 

[Chewy509]

Ars Technica has an update on Win8, and some of the changes MS are thinking about the UI...

http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/ne...in-desktop-users-over-to-the-start-screen.ars

The 2nd image (the one full of icons) reminded me of the Win3.1 interface!

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows/history and http://www.guidebookgallery.org/screenshots/win31

 

[sechs]

Have they decided to get rid of the happen-chance design by committees of engineers that don't talk to one another?

 

[Mercutio]

Since no one else has mentioned it, there is a new build of Windows 8 available for download as of today. I wasn't terribly excited by the last one, but I do happen to have a nice 22" touchscreen sitting around so I suppose I'll give all that a whirl later this week.

 

[sechs]

I sounds like it may be difficult to navigate around with a keyboard and mouse.

 

[Bozo]

And, you need a key to install Windows 8 unlike Windows 7 where the key could be put after you were up and running. Hmmm...

 

[MaxBurn]

I guess I'll try throwing it in a VM, any tips on vmware settings? I was thinking of prepping it like it's win 7.

 

[Clocker]

A new Consumer Preview is available today:

http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/hot-deals/1172954/

 

[Handruin]

I guess I'll try throwing it in a VM, any tips on vmware settings? I was thinking of prepping it like it's win 7.

If you're going to use VMware products, you'll need to use Workstation 8.x or it won't boot under older version of workstation. I believe it will work using windows 7 as the profile options.

 

[MaxBurn]

I only have player or fusion to work with from vmware but I figure the latest fusion should do it. Still over an hour to download, they must be getting hit hard.

 

[Bozo]

I installed it...removed it after 30 minutes. Worthless on a desktop.

 

[Chewy509]

I don't know what MS is trying with Windows 8...

Windows 8 on ARM won't support x86 emulation, won't support AD/Domains, etc.
Windows 8 on x86, will use a tablet focused UI for all desktops (unless you turn it off via registry/GPO or know heaps of keyboard shortcuts).

Have they lost direction? Or have a crystal ball we don't have?

 

[MaxBurn]

The windows 8 killswitch.

http://thehackernews.com/2012/03/ki...(The+Hackers+News+-+Daily+Cyber+News+Updates)

Actually this looks like a good thing.

 

[Bozo]

Apparently Windows 8 was designed by and for 15 year old girls. "It's soooo cute"

 

[BingBangBop]

Don't forget Windows Server "8" for that beta was also released today.

 

[Bozo]

Don't forget Windows Server "8" for that beta was also released today.

It has the same GUI as Windows 8. I guess MS wants 6 year olds to like it too.

 

[BingBangBop]

It has the same GUI as Windows 8. I guess MS wants 6 year olds to like it too.

As dumb as it is, they just don't want to support multiple GUI's and the lowest common denominator in this case are Windows Cell Phones.

The second thing is that they want the guaranteed income stream and total control that comes from forcing everyone to buy all apps from their store. That way they can force all developers to give them a % of the cost. They can say no to an app that they don't want offered. They will control how things are offered in their store i.e. always putting their products first in the list. They can limit piracy and security issues because everything is bought from them and gets vetted and if they make a mistake by selling something that competes too well with what Microsoft is offering, they get to apply their kill-switch to pull the product from all machines everywhere (Do I hear a pending lawsuit here).

Both of those goals apply to servers just as much as desktops.

Isn't it nice all these great services Microsoft will be offering everyone with this new OS (Sarcasm)

 

[Mercutio]

I actually don't mind the aesthetics. As I said, I have a touchscreen here and I'm going to install Windows 8 on that so that I can get some idea of the touch part of the experience. I'm also going to go ahead and run a couple extra monitors, because something I'm really curious about is how the windowing UI works now with multiple displays.

I certainly could fire up the server 8 beta as well. I have a bunch of Core 2 Quad machines with gobs of RAM sitting around my apartment that I'm not using for much of anything.

 

[Mercutio]

I don't think they can force an "app store" on x86. They probably can for the new ARM stuff, but there are too many legacy binaries and independent developers out there that need to be able to run to push everything through whatever qualification process to make that the only way to install applications.

 

[BingBangBop]

I don't think they can force an "app store" on x86. They probably can for the new ARM stuff, but there are too many legacy binaries and independent developers out there that need to be able to run to push everything through whatever qualification process to make that the only way to install applications.

I contend that it is only a matter of time. As people get used to the cell phone business model with their PC's acting like glorified cell phones Microsoft will be at the ready when cell phone mentality takes over.

 

[MaxBurn]

I honestly can't figure out how to switch to new apps once I have left the home screen. Or get back to the home screen. Or on the desktop how to find the start menu.

I'm frigging lost, can't even shut it down gracefully. At the moment I can alt tab between calendar and the desktop but I don't see how to exit and go back to the start.

Nice UI fail there.

Edit: I'm on a mac and I didn't think about looking for the windows key. Honestly I never use the windows key ever on PC's so I guess I have to start. I have actually been known to take that key off the keyboard so I don't accidentally hit it.

 

[BingBangBop]

Getting started with Windows 8 GUI

 

[MaxBurn]

Thank you.

This will be a bit of a shock to existing Windows users (which is to say, virtually every person on earth who has ever owned a computer), and getting to grips with the Windows 8 interface is going to require some effort.

No kidding.

 

[Handruin]

The windows 8 killswitch.

http://thehackernews.com/2012/03/ki...(The+Hackers+News+-+Daily+Cyber+News+Updates)

Actually this looks like a good thing.

Looks like it's not for the entire OS, just apps...

Anyone worried about Microsoft having complete access to your computer can rest easy for now. The company has stated that they can only “kill” programs downloaded from its new Microsoft App Store.
...
Any software loaded from a flash drive, DVD, or directly from the Web will remain outside Microsoft’s control.

 

[Handruin]

I honestly can't figure out how to switch to new apps once I have left the home screen. Or get back to the home screen. Or on the desktop how to find the start menu.

I'm frigging lost, can't even shut it down gracefully. At the moment I can alt tab between calendar and the desktop but I don't see how to exit and go back to the start.

Nice UI fail there.

Edit: I'm on a mac and I didn't think about looking for the windows key. Honestly I never use the windows key ever on PC's so I guess I have to start. I have actually been known to take that key off the keyboard so I don't accidentally hit it.

I found the same frustrations when I tried the first preview. What I found during the demo was a heavy reliance on the windows key on the keyboard to get to things I would normally use the mouse for. I haven't tried this release, so I don't know if the windows key still holds the same amount of importance.

 

[Mercutio]

I contend that it is only a matter of time. As people get used to the cell phone business model with their PC's acting like glorified cell phones Microsoft will be at the ready when cell phone mentality takes over.

The problem with that is that there are so many small shops and developers working with some tiny, tiny market. Microsoft makes tools for development and presumably new stuff would integrate into Microsoft's offerings, but what about folks who are writing code with non-Microsoft tools (Delphi or GNU software, for example)? There's still a metric assload of legacy stuff out there that small businesses can't afford to update. Are they just going to be shut out of Windows from now on? Is Microsoft just going to tell everyone to virtualize and pay for more Windows licenses and management headaches?

 

[MaxBurn]

Well I confirmed our monitoring product doesn't work in IE10. Not really surprise as it relies heavily on actives and a little java for graphs here and there. I see some actives controls in security though, I thought that was gone?

 

[MaxBurn]

How the UI is supposed to work. Seems good once you get that touch screen tablet.

http://www.theverge.com/2012/3/1/2835346/windows-8-vs-ipad-feature-comparison

 

[BingBangBop]

The problem with that is that there are so many small shops and developers working with some tiny, tiny market. Microsoft makes tools for development and presumably new stuff would integrate into Microsoft's offerings, but what about folks who are writing code with non-Microsoft tools (Delphi or GNU software, for example)? There's still a metric assload of legacy stuff out there that small businesses can't afford to update. Are they just going to be shut out of Windows from now on? Is Microsoft just going to tell everyone to virtualize and pay for more Windows licenses and management headaches?

Yep, Microsoft will just plain quit supporting Win 7 and earlier. The programmer/developer will eventually be forced into the Win 8 app business model. It really isn't much different than when Microsoft changes driver models like between XP and Vista so that the HW manufacturers were forced to either write new drivers for old HW or quit supporting the old products. Just look at all the old sound cards, scanners, and printers that just plain became useless upon Vista's release. As an example I have to keep around a virtualized XP mode just so I can scan with a perfectly good HP Scanjet 5370C when HP refused to update its drivers upon Vista's release. It is amazing what a monopoly can force people to do if they want to stay in business.

So yes, I believe that Microsoft wants a piece of every software that is sold for PC's so they will eventually force everyone to buy through their app store. I'm sure they are looking at Apple and Android's app stores and saying if they can get away with it then why can't we get a piece of that action too. There were a few baby steps with Microsoft's desktop gadgets store and their live games store but Windows 8 app store is going to be a big leap forward towards that goal.

Non-Microsoft tools are just an app to be sold in a Microsoft store. The developer will still be able to choose a Microsoft dev tool or someone else's as long as it is purchased from Microsoft. Those tools will be forced into modifications so as to be able make apps that are Microsoft approved and can be sold in the Microsoft store. The alternative will be to limit themselves to Win 7 or earlier or a non-Microsoft OS. There will be a transition between now and later but eventually It really won't be much different than the current Apple IOS development tools state.

 

[Bozo]

I somehow managed to get to the Defrag utility. (don't ask me how, it was an accident) There the OS recognized the SSD it was loaded on and had a button to TRIM the SSD. That was neat. But not neat enough to purchase Windows 8.
I pity the IT people if they decide to downgrade to Windows 8. The help line will melt.

 

[ddrueding]

I'm glad I decided to run with Win7...it will hold the company up until at least version 9. We did the following 98->XP->7 (with the majority of the users still on XP and the last 98 box going away a month or so ago).

 

[MaxBurn]

I thought I read somewhere that microsoft went to a staggeringly long ten year support timeframe for EOL security updates? Going to be a long time before we are forced from 7.

 

[Mercutio]

XP will have had something like 19 years by the time it's completely removed from Microsoft's web site.

I'm still building and selling XP machines. In some cases that feels completely ridiculous and retrograde, but it's the only option that will maintain application compatibility in an environment I can fully support. I get a lot of people now asking why they're getting new PCs with XP, and usually the answer is "Because three applications that absolutely everyone in your office needs to have don't work properly with anything newer and your boss hasn't figured out how to replace them yet."

Speaking of Win98, one of my customers has a commercial sewing machine thingie that has only ever had a driver for Windows 98. I'm patiently waiting for the day I get to replace the PC that runs it, because I'm sure the installation will be amusing.

 

[ddrueding]

Speaking of Win98, one of my customers has a commercial sewing machine thingie that has only ever had a driver for Windows 98. I'm patiently waiting for the day I get to replace the PC that runs it, because I'm sure the installation will be amusing.

Yup, I have one of those as well. Special PCI card with direct interface to the software will make virtualizing it very difficult.

 

[Bozo]

We still have equipment and diagnostic programs running on DOS 6.2. We have a few computers running W98 because the software was never upgraded.
And one lonesome 1998 vintage Gateway running Windows 2000.
Moving to Windows 7 has been painful. Windows 8 is out of the question.

 

[Chewy509]

Re: App Store.

I can't see it being enforced too hard that applications can only be installed from the store. There is a lot of software that can only be installed for certain customers due to either government regulations or that companies only deal with certain industries, not to mention in-house software development. (I can really see companies uploading medical industry-specific software to the app-store - NOT).

I also got another MSNDAA account through Uni (I now have 4 different MSDNAA accounts), and listed as available is MS-DOS 6.22... (As well as Win98SE, Win2K and everything since).

 

[Mercutio]

Windows 2000 should not be available through MSNDAA. Nor should Window 98. Both were distributed with Microsoft's infringing Java runtime and they were pulled years ago.

I got as far as installing Windows 8 on a system with a Planar screen that supports multitouch today, but I didn't really have time to do anything but get it to a desktop before I got called away. I'll have impressions sometime early next week.

 

[LiamC]

In case anyone missed it, treat the Metro screen as you would the run command under XP or the search box under Visa/7. The metro screen is one big run command Works well

Also, If you go to the desktop (via the Metro icon) you can then open up explorer and there is a control panel icon in the new ribbon interface. I just used that to get a Control Panel icon on the desktop.

Win8 starts really fast, and I like the new Task Manager, but the schizoid interface is "not so nice"

 

[MaxBurn]

Server 8 appears to be more of the same. Knowing where the shut down is in win 8 didn't help, had to resort to powershell to shut it down. It's like they have forgotten UI needs to be intuitive, but I guess windows never really has been that way.

 

[sechs]

This is starting to look like a skipper.

Any news on Windows 9?