Wireless Router & cards

[mubs]

I will be purchasing a 4-port wireless router + desktop wireless adapter + notebook wireless adapter. I need to buy by March 24, and need to buy in store.

The setup will have to work well through brick walls. There will be open space between the router and the PCI adapter, but it's not line of sight but curved, going through doorways.

I could skip the notebook adapter if I have to, but the desktop adapter is very important.

What would you folks recommend? People say these things die after 6 months, and that would be a real bummer. Would it be too much to ask for decent performance and a couple of years of life?

 

[Nitsirk]

For what its worth, I have never had one die after 6 months but any of the wireless routers I have used at work or home have never lasted over 2 years.

 

[timwhit]

All the Wireless Linksys routers I have used have died or developed problems within a year.

 

[Sol]

If you use an open source firmware you can up the power on Linksys' WRT54G routers... Might help with the brick wall, I'm not sure if you can change the antennas on them though which could also be helpful...

I'm guessing there is some reason that Cat5 and a hammer drill is out... It's not the simplest solution but it won't be beat on cost, speed or reliability...

I use wireless for my Wii but I try to avoid it for anything that I actually care about having connected more than occasionally. I use a Linksys router which is the most reliable brand I've used (Belkin suck, or used to at least... Can't recall what else I've seen). That's not to say I've seen one working for longer than a year though so I'm not necessarily contradicting timwhit.

 

[ddrueding]

WRT54G and WAP54G are both great products. I've used a LOT of them and do have about 10-15% fail within 2 years. They are a cheap commodity product, what more do you want?

There are aftermarket firmwares available that can up the power significantly; I've used these with success as well, without a noticeable decrease in reliability.

 

[Adcadet]

I have an old Linksys BEFW11S4 which has been running just fine now for 6 years at least. My wireless PCMCIA card in my laptop, a Linksys WPC11 has also been working for for at least 5 years as well (although I did think that I lost it...it turned up again). Both are 802.11b, of course, not g.

 

[CougTek]

D-Link stuff works great, except for their scouring security problems.
Linksys stuff works great except for their scouring reliability problems.
Belkin stuff works but only at short range, at least the few products I've used.
Trendnet just plain doesn't work. Merc had good luck with them though.
The only brand that never let me down so far has been SMC.

 

[Fushigi]

I've been using Netgear stuff for a few years now. The 634U was not a good product; had lockup issues, possibly from overheating. The 624 seems to be pretty good. I'm currently on the WNR854T (pre-N w/Gigabit) and it's been great. My wife uses a Netgear SuperG PCI card in her desktop and it works just fine. No brick walls here but her PC is on another floor across a hallway so the signal is travelling through a floor and 3 wood-frame walls.

My anecdotal knowledge of Linksys is similar to what's already been said: Some swear by it, others swear at it.

 

[mubs]

Thanks folks, a mixed bag as usual. I'm checking out reviews at Le Egg....

 

[Fushigi]

My router died a couple of days ago so I have to retract my 'great' comment. However, after talking with Netgear tech support they are sending me a replacement unit.

Their support folks are definitely not US-based. However, they were unfailingly polite and suggested the replacement hardware themselves; I never had to get upset. Of course, we had to follow their script when I'd already done darn near everything already but I can accept that.

 

[Mercutio]

I've gone out of my way to buy the WRT54GL routers rather than the current WRT54Gs. The extra $10 gives a router with 8MB RAM rather than two, and a router running Linux rather than whatever the proprietary OS on the 2MB model.

The current-model GLs seem to be living longer than the Gs. In my ever-growing pile of dead routers, I don't have ANY GL models. I note that I have to mail order the GLs; the Gs come from Staples or Best Buy when I need them. As I understand it, the GLs are the "original" G model. The current Gs are an even cheaper version.

 

[mubs]

Thanks guys. I actually held off buying; I probably will sometime in mid-late May, and spring for an N-version. Any suggestions y'all can throw at me will be welcome. I'm looking primarily for the router/AP and something for 2 desktops. This time I should be able to buy mail-order because of longer time-frames involved.

Not sure about something for my notebook, which is getting really long in the tooth. That has cardbus slots and no built-in wireless. Most new laptops come with built-in 'g' for sure, no 'N', and one cardbus and one Express slot.
I should probably hold off buying noteboook thingies for now.

 

[ddrueding]

At home I have a Linksys router with 802.11n and a gigabit switch. Very fun.

The local Fry's only sells WRT54GLs, they don't even have the Gs.

 

[sechs]

I've gone out of my way to buy the WRT54GL routers rather than the current WRT54Gs. The extra $10 gives a router with 8MB RAM rather than two, and a router running Linux rather than whatever the proprietary OS on the 2MB model.

The latest G models run VxWare, which is a proprietary, third-party, embedded operating system. The theory is that the cost of licensing the OS is less than the cost of the extra memory on the Linux version. We're talking about $10 for 6MB of memory.

My theory on pushing the GL is, not only is the firmware open-source, but the manufacturer encourages third-party development. The "hacked" firmwares are really quite stable and add many features. Particularly for folks like us, $10 is a pretty good deal for all of this value-added.

 

[mubs]

At home I have a Linksys router with 802.11n and a gigabit switch.

Which ones - model #s please?

 

[ddrueding]

Which ones - model #s please?

WRT350N

 

[mubs]

That doesn't look like it supports jumbo frames? Datasheet mentions nothing about it.

 

[P5-133XL]

That doesn't look like it supports jumbo frames? Datasheet mentions nothing about it.

Are there any wireless routers that support jumbo frames?

 

[mubs]

I asked cause I don't know :-D. It kinda sucks that they don't. Like my bizarro "DSL" modem that has an RJ-11 for the internet and o-n-e Ethernet port. I have to use an Ethernet switch along with it if I want a 2nd connection.

 

[CougTek]

Are there any wireless routers that support jumbo frames?

Not exactly a router, but I'm pretty sure this one does.

 

[ddrueding]

It apparently does support Jumbo Frames, at least for me. I have my TeraStation set up to use 7418-byte packets. I noticed a significant speed increase when I made the change and no corrupted data.

 

[P5-133XL]

Not exactly a router, but I'm pretty sure this one does.

I know a managed gigabyte switch will do part of the job: You place the machines with Jumbo Frames on a seperate virtual network to the devices that don't. You still need that expensive Jumbo-Frame professional router to route between the two networks. An expensive solution for the normal consumer.

I believe you can do this using a server with dual Gigabit ethernet interfaces and allow it to operate as a router. That way you can place the Jumbo Gigabyte network on one network interface; the non-Jumbo frame router<->Cable modem<->Internet on the other interface. Then you configure the server to route and do the jumbo-frame conversion between them. Typically cheaper.

 

[sechs]

Like my bizarro "DSL" modem that has an RJ-11 for the internet and o-n-e Ethernet port. I have to use an Ethernet switch along with it if I want a 2nd connection.

Sounds like you have a normal broadband modem. As a standard part, most cable and DSL Internet providers that I have seen give you a single-port modem because they only support using one computer on the connection. You pay extra for more ports, and it's certainly not worth it.

 

[Sol]

I was looking at switching over my basic wireless router for one with QOS since my internet connection is my source of all data and my phone and it's a pain to stop the information flow when I want to talk with my family.

I looked at the Linksys WTR54Gs and ended up looking at an Asus router that uses the same firmware but more memory and the option of hooking up an external hard drive and using it as a torrent box, which is good...

It was at this point that I realised what I really wanted was a Linux server and a switch. I guess once you've had the flexibility of working like that it's hard to go back...

 

[mubs]

Sounds like you have a normal broadband modem. As a standard part, most cable and DSL Internet providers that I have seen give you a single-port modem because they only support using one computer on the connection. You pay extra for more ports, and it's certainly not worth it.

Nah, my very first DSL connection, circa 1999, from the erstwhile Pacific Bell was a router/switch with 4 ethernet ports. I still have it in a box somewhere. When I moved, and signed up for the same service again, they gave me another one that was similar.

What I can't remember is if the WAN connection was an RJ-11 or the telephone wire got put into some kind of a small telephone outlet kinda box and came out at the other end as an ethernet cable that then got plugged into a WAN ethernet port.

The SMC router/switch I am using solely as a switch now has an thernet port for the WAN. If my WAN connection was an RJ-45, I would have looked into ditching the ISP's router and using my SMC instead.

So now I have:

1-pait telephone wiire --> ISP DSL modem --> ethernet cable --> SMC (router) 4-port Switch. Then to PC and Linksys Vonage adapter.

 

[ddrueding]

If you have DSL and the device supplied by the telco includes a switch, it is a multi-purpose device; including a DSL modem, NAT-capable router, and switch (at least). Just connecting your SMC (ethernet) router to the phone line would not work, as it doesn't have a DLS modem in it (DSU).

 

[sechs]

Nah, my very first DSL connection, circa 1999, from the erstwhile Pacific Bell was a router/switch with 4 ethernet ports.

You probably got the four static IPs, as well. That's an extra now.

 

[mubs]

DD, you're right. Prob is, as one gets older, memories fade. My memory's always been weird. I can remember things that go back very far (I must have been 4-ish ?) and I can't remember things from a few years ago. Before everybody jumps up and says that's the way it works in old people, true, but my memory's been like that forever. It's more like selective archiving and discarding the rest.

Sechs: I got only one dynamic IP. I guess they threw in the extra ports to encourage use. Pacbell always openly said they didn't care if you shared the connection. When wireless routers first showed up, in So. Cal. they started to offer free 4-port wireless routers with a 1-year contract.

 

[Fushigi]

My replacement router arrived and was installed with no problems. Netgear's tech support gets a B+ overall.

A coworker recently had her DSL modem (AT&T/SBC) die out of warranty. We replaced it with a new 'AT&T' branded combo unit from Best Buy that includes the DSL modem, 4 port switch & G wireless.

 

[sechs]

Pacbell always openly said they didn't care if you shared the connection. When wireless routers first showed up, in So. Cal. they started to offer free 4-port wireless routers with a 1-year contract.

Maybe you used a different PacBell than I have, but, until relatively recently, more than one computer on a single IP was strickly verboten, if rarely enforced. And it's okkay now only if you use their equipment.

 

[mubs]

I was in S. CA. The only thing they cared about was that you didn't run a server (causing large volume uploads). Maybe they had different policies north vs. south.

 

[mubs]

The time has come to buy (The March deadline came and went). Should I buy n or stick with g? I will pretty much be going with one mfr for the router/access point and the client devices. I was hoping n would be ratified by now, but it still seems to be in limbo. The n standard would perhaps work better in brick buildings?

 

[ddrueding]

I have and N router and currently only have g devices. N simply isn't that much more expensive, you might as well go for it. Linksys has a very nice selection of routers, APs, and NICs.

 

[Adcadet]

I have and N router and currently only have g devices. N simply isn't that much more expensive, you might as well go for it. Linksys has a very nice selection of routers, APs, and NICs.

Looks like the cheapest G routers are about $45, whereas the cheapest N routers are $87. N USB adaptors start at $70 whereas G adaptors start at $35. I rarely use wireless for anything but syncing data to/from my Dell Axim, but I have thought about networking my new home with 802.11N. I suppose the cost premium for n could be worse, but for my new home I'm thinking I'll stick with my old B router and run 100 base-T cable to the various rooms.

 

[sechs]

Unlike 802.11b, g is pretty acceptable for most purposes.

Given the choice between cheap/cheaper and mature g hardware and more expensive and relatively new n hardware, I'd go for the g.

 

[time]

I'd go for the 100Base-T. Wireless is for when you don't have Cat 5e/6.

 

[time]

I wouldn't hold out too much for 802.11n. I've only spent 15 minutes reading up on it, but in most situations it will use the same frequency (and channels) as 802.11b/g. Any improvements appear to be due to spatial multiplexing, i.e. multiple antennas - something I don't believe you'll see on consumer-level devices at this point in time.

I'd also be extremely skeptical that shipping hardware (and firmware) incorporates all the numerous 802.11n revisions since November 2006. And then there's this:

On 9 March 2007, Letter Ballot 97, the 30-day Technical vote to approve Draft 2.0, closed. They were announced by IEEE 802 leadership during the Orlando Plenary on 12 March 2007. The ballot passed with an 83.4% approval, well above the 75% approval threshold. There were approximately 3,076 unique comments, which will be individually examined for incorporation into the next revision of Draft 2.

The estimated 802.11n publish date is now March 2009.

Good luck.

 

[mubs]

Still researching! Will post in a day or two. Thanks everybody for your input.

 

[mubs]

I'm beating this issue up because reliability is paramount. I'm taking it back home, and a dead router is no good to me, and there will be no warranty to speak of. I need a router (WAP, actually), and for clients, 1xUSB and 1xdesktop adapter. It makes sense to buy everything from one manufacturer as a matched set. I would have liked an N model, but want at least a fast G (MIMO etc.). Plain vanilla G only if I absolutely have to settle for that.

I spent quite a bit of time looking at reviews on Newegg (I realize they filter bad reviews). My criteria are:
a) It must have the highest number of eggs (5 is max)
b) It must have a high number of total reviews - a 5 rating given by each of 3 reviews doesn't tell much about the product.
c) The breakup of the reviews must be favorable. The 5 is an average. I pay attention to how many reviewers gave fewer stars. Also the combined 5-E and 4-E scores.

Based on these, here's my ranking of the top 5 models - sorted on # eggs and # reviews. G+ means it's faster than plain-vanilla G; I resorted to this because each mfr calls it something different. The 5-E etc. refers to %age of reviews that have given that many eggs to the product.

Brand      Model     Type   Egg$  Eggs   # Revs   5-E   4-E   3-E   2-E   1-E
Linksys   WRT54GL      G     $63    5      534    82%   11%    3%    2%    2% 
Buffalo   WHR-G54S     G+    $50    5      250    72%   18%    4%    4%    2%
Buffalo   WHR-HP-G54   G+    $60    5      196    77%   11%    4%    5%    3%
ZyXEL     X-550        G+    $80    5      116    82%   11%    1%    1%    5%
Linksys   WRT150N      N    $100    5       12    75%   17%    8%    0%    0%

Only one 'N' model is in the top 14; the Linksys WRT150N with 5 eggs. But that's from only 12 reviews, and only 75% of the 12 gave 5. The rest of the N models, regardless of brand, are far behind.

The Buffalo WHR-HP-G54 is faster than the WHR-G54S according to their website. It's got a decent enough rating. The WHR-HP-G54 also has an external switch that toggles between router and WAP modes. It is a MIMO Turbo-G 125 High-Speed Mode device.

For client adapters we have:

Brand     Model        Type  Egg$  Eggs  #Revs   5-E   4-E   3-E   2-E   1-E
Buffalo  WLI-CB-G54HP    G+   $40    5     62    75%   13%    5%    2%    5%
Linksys  WUSB54GS        G+   $60    5     39    74%   15%    3%    5%    3%
ZyXEL    M-302           G+   $54    5      9    67%   22%   11%    0%    0%
Linksys  WMP54G          G    $50    4    167    60%   19%    7%    4%   10%
Buffalo  WLI-TX4-G54HP   G+   $57    4     99    69%   21%    1%    4%    5%

Picture's a bit different here. Note that there are no N adapters here (the top score for an N adapter is 3 out of 24 reviews). Looking at the combined 5-E and 4-E scores, the Buffalo WLI-TX4-G54HP scores well. It's actually a 4-port Ethernet hub (or switch) with an antenna and can be shared by 4 Ethernet devices. It is also a MIMO Turbo-G 125 High-Speed Mode device, so will match the Buffalo Router/WAP.

Router/adapter combo wise, Buffalo wins. If you think otherwise, speak now or forever hold your peace!

I plan to buy (in a couple of days after publishing this RFC) the Buffalo WHR-HP-G54 MIMO Router/WAP and two of the matching WLI-TX4-G54HP MIMO Ethernet Converter.

Thanks to everybody for your valuable input.

 

[ddrueding]

If reliability/stability is paramount, to me there is no question.

WRT54GL/WUSB54GS