Apple makes the hate list

Mercutio

Fatwah on Western Digital
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My boss brings me her notebook this morning.

She says "I can't get itunes to work"

I try to run itunes. Version 6, the one that came out maybe a month ago with the video support.

I double-click on iTunes. The computer goes "ding". itunes does not start.
I think "Oh well, I will uninstall and reinstall it."

Except it's not in Add/Remove programs.
Hit the program files folder. Yup. It's there.

Try to start from the .exe instead of a shortcut. Nope. Computer goes "ding". What does "ding" mean?

Download an updated installer, fresh from the web site.
The installer gives me the option to remove itunes or repair it. I try both. In either case I get "error 1605", which a quick google tells me is an InstallShield error. I'm told to upgrade my installshield engine and use a "Windows Installer Cleanup Tool". itunes doesn't show on the list of things I can clean up. Quicktime and the ipod service do. I go ahead and remove those.

OK. Fine. Done.

The computer goes "ding" and I *still* get error 1605 when I try to reinstall.

So I hit Apple's support pages for itunes. There are eight or nine suggestions there that seem like they might be related, but most of them lead back to the Installshield support site.

I try all those things. The computer still goes "ding" and I *still* get error 1605.

I run an SFC on the machine. The computer goes "ding" the next time I try to start itunes.

Finally, against all hope, I call Apple. Maybe there's something they haven't published, or maybe this is a new issue.

Apple won't talk to me until I find the serial number for a new ipod or I cough up $50. What the ipod has to do with an itunes problem, I don't know.

Fortunately, one of the women I work with has a new ipod. Good thing. Apple won't talk to you unless you've purchased their hardware.

I calmly explain to the apple tech (LeeAnn, if anyone wants to know), what I have done prior to my call. LeeAnn identifies herself as a *windows support specialist*.

I ask her if she knows what "ding" means, or if there's some support information other than that available on Apple's web site for this problem.

LeeAnn asks me to repeat the things I did. This takes me about five minutes. I reference Apple's support pages, as I can read them off the firefox tabs in front of me. At the end of everything, LeeAnn says "I need to check on this. Can you hold?"

LeeAnn is gone just under five minutes. When she picks back up, she starts reading verbatim off one of those support web pages. I say "I have already done the the steps on that page." She starts in on another page, that I have also read. This time, I just start reading ahead of her, for she is pissing me off. I say "Is there any additional support information that you can provide me, other than the information that I already got off your web site?"

She says "Not for this issue. Have you contacted your computer manufacturer?"
I say "This is not an issue for my computer manufacturer, this is an issue with Apple's software on a Windows computer."
She says "Well have you contacted Microsoft?"

I think this very well might've been the point where I snapped.

I say "No. This is a problem with the functionality of *APPLE'S* software. Windows is otherwise behaving normally. I ran a program to verify that." (Furthermore, I know Windows installer was working, as I installed my bundle o' antispyware apps from an .msi file earlier that morning while I was troubleshooting).
She says "What program is that?"
I say "SFC"
She says "I thought that sounded funny. It might've messed up our software."
I said "Do you know what it is?"
She said "No."
I said "Can you do anything but read off your support web pages?"
She said "I am not trained to support beyond what's on our support site." In other words, Apple's PAID SUPPORT REPS do NOTHING but read off their web site.
I say "Is there someone else to whom this problem can be escalated?"
She says "I guess you could contact the Music Store Support." To my knowledge, no one has used the music store on the computer in quesiton, and the support THERE seems to deal with download and credit card issues.
I say "But there's no tier 2?"
She says "No."
I say "What if I just want to remove itunes? Can you help with that?"
She starts telling me how to get to control panel, to Add/Remove programs.
I say "No. We've talked about that already. That doesn't work. Are there manual removal instructions?"
She pauses and says "No... is there anything else I can help you with?"
I say "Can you tell me why your program goes DING and doesn't start?"
She says "I don't know why it would do that... but I can e-mail you a list of common iTunes problems."
I say "What if I chose a for-pay support option?"
She says "So you don't want our list of common itunes problems?"
I say "No, I already saw that list. It's on your web site."

Seriously, this was like talking to a fencepost with a southern accent.

In conclusion: iTunes as an application does not use standard windows UI elements or behaviors. itunes inclues DRM. iTunes can't handle access for two different music collections without a 3rd party application. Apple essentially doesn't support it, but blames your problems on Windows.

And this is the fucking future of music.
 

sechs

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iTunes is for the Macintosh. Do you have a Macintosh?

Problem solved.
 

paugie

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I am reading this at 6:00 in the morning.

I know you have gone through a lot of aggravation in this. Yet, I have been entertained. And educated... May I thank you.

Definitely will keep coming back to SF. Lots of knowledge here.
 

Tannin

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On the scale of great rants in history, I give this one a 8.5. 8.5-level rants are rare and precious. And the conclusion is ..... itunes is Quicktime writ with a lower-case "i" in front of it.

Thanks for posting.
 

timwhit

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Did you ever end up fixing the problem?

Did you try removing all traces of iTunes from the system (clearing the registry, system folders, etc.) and then reinstalling?
 

Mercutio

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I don't have anything else to try, actually.
I tried renaming the program folder and deleting all things apple from the registry (after I made a backup). Didn't help.

This is a computer that was used by an ADULT. No spyware, no p2p crap, no IM software.

My boss had itunes 5 installed and was using it to organize her MP3 collection.
According to her, itunes stopped working after an upgrade to version 6.

I have a 7GB backup of her personal files being removed from this machine in preparation for its reload. There's nothing else I can do.
 

LiamC

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timwhit said:
Did you try removing all traces of iTunes from the system (clearing the registry, system folders, etc.) and then reinstalling?

It shouldn't be that hard in the first place. I aspire to write software that "good". I can't believe people get paid to write crap like that.

Merc's encounter with "Tech Support" reminds me why I dislike Apple/Dell/HP/Microsoft et. al. Their "help" is not very helpful.
 

timwhit

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Can anyone remember a time when tech support was actually helpful?

The only one I can think of right now is Watchguard, I was calling about their Firebox SOHO 6. I couldn't get the VPN to work and they told me that it was because I needed to update the firmware. It would have been nice if this was documented on their support site, but at least they were able to tell me what to do.
 

Fushigi

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timwhit said:
Can anyone remember a time when tech support was actually helpful?
Thread drift ... IBM iSeries support via 800-IBM-SERV is still knowledgeable and helpful. You call, describe the problem to the human drone calltaker who then forwards you to the appropriate department where actual humans who are trained to know the products reside. No waiting on a callback and generally under 3 minutes on hold. If the tech (ctual technicians!) doesn't know, they can escalate. And the escalatees can escalate again to the developers as needed.

Most, although not all, of the support group is in the same facility as the developers. And they go through something like 90 or 180 days of training before they take calls. Sometimes developers take turns doing support.

Typically, my issues are resolved on the same phone call.

Now, this doesn't come cheap, but when your problems are resolved within minutes instead of hours or days, the money is well worth it.
 

Handruin

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I read this thead while I was in class today and I had to chuckle out loud. I'm sorry you wen't through that Merc, but I got a kick out of the whole event. Thanks for sharing in great detail. This is yet another reason why I'm glad I avoided an ipod during my search for an MP3 player. iTunes (windows) was the major reason for not buying an ipod.
 

CougTek

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Shit, I have friends who have iPods (well, not them, but their kids do). So this means I'm the one who will end up dealing with that crap.

So I guess I should stay clear of iTunes 6 if iTunes 5 is installed and working?
 

Bozo

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Good Tech support:
A few years ago I puchased 12 Cheetahs. They were installed in 6 computers in a RAID 1 setup. I had 4 Cheetahs fail in a two day period. I called Seagate and explained what happened to the first 'tech'. I was put on hold imediately. When he returned I was on a conference call with tech supports lead tech and two engineers. The problem was resovled in about 45 minutes. Seems I got a bad batch of cables.

Bad Tech support: Anything Dell.

Bozo :mrgrn:
 

ddrueding

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As I think i mentioned in another thread, the iPod hardware is very nice. You don't have to use iTunes just like you don't have to use notepad. It just happens to be the free software that came bundled with your hardware.
 

Santilli

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Bozo said:
Good Tech support:
A few years ago I puchased 12 Cheetahs. They were installed in 6 computers in a RAID 1 setup. I had 4 Cheetahs fail in a two day period. I called Seagate and explained what happened to the first 'tech'. I was put on hold imediately. When he returned I was on a conference call with tech supports lead tech and two engineers. The problem was resovled in about 45 minutes. Seems I got a bad batch of cables.

Bad Tech support: Anything Dell.

Bozo :mrgrn:

Why I love Seagate, and stay with them.

gs
 

Santilli

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My girlfriend has an Ipod, and, I have to go look at her computer to see what version of icrap I loaded on it.

My hate is the bundled Quicktime, and icrap, when, I don't NEED icrap, at all...

gs
 

ddrueding

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Merc,

While I understand that the existence of alternative software doesn't help your current dillema, I was simply reminding those thinking of not getting an iPod because of iTunes that they aren't mutually inclusive.
 

CougTek

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Santilli said:
:cry: :beer: :idea: :jumpin: :errr: :cheers:
Is that your version of "weiuagh"?

Or "a;fljgh",
or "fjagharrh",
or maybe even "ajkrhgkajdrdnv"?

These are all results I get when I type randomly on my keyboard, just like Greg seems to have done with his mouse cursor in the emoticon window.
 

Groltz

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Mercutio, here's what I'd suggest:

1st: Go into
Code:
C:Program FilesInstallShield Installation Information
and find the sub directory that was for the iTunes install. You'll have to dig around inside the sub-directories a bit to determine which one is the one you're after since they have names like "{1B76E871-9DF0-4447-8393-69D145E38251}" Typically they hold an .ini that will give away which program it references. Delete the relevant sub directory.



2nd: Go into
Code:
C:Program Files
and manually delete the iTunes directory.



3rd: Delete any other iTunes directories on the drive, such as the ones that might get created in:
Code:
C:Documents and SettingsAdministratorApplication Data
C:Documents and SettingsDefault UserApplication Data
C:Documents and SettingsAll UsersApplication Data
C:Documents and SettingsAdministratorLocal SettingsApplication Data
C:Documents and SettingsAdministratorMy Documents
and so on. There are many more places than just those. Use Search to find them all.



4th: Get Registry Crawler and run it. (Ask me if you want it emailed to you) Make sure ALL the search boxes are checked.
rc.jpg

Delete every registry search hit that it finds. You might want to search and delete entries found with other obvious search words, although "APPLE" might find stuff that's built into Windows that shouldn't be deleted.

Obviously, this sort of effort is for when you've exhausted all the normal means to evict a piece of software. I find it necessary on rare occasions when the installshield logs gets corrupt or some other unforeseen glitch keeps an uninstaller routine from functioning.

Good Luck.
 

Tannin

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What's the matter with you, Cougtek? Can't you read plain English? Any fool knows that :cry: :beer: :idea: :jumpin: :errr: :cheers: means "ajkrhgkajdrdnv". How you could mistake it for "weiuagh" or "fjagharrh", well, I have no idea.

Of course, I think what Greg meant to say was "hjhfggsaasw", which is spelt :evil: :eekers: :mrgrn: :crnval: :cherry: :boom: :nono: :king: :idea: :aok: :nono: :stpd:
 

timwhit

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Who wants to vote to disable all smilies? I hate those damn things. I especially hate the ones that move.
 

Tannin

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Despite my little joke with Coug just above, I very rarely use them, Tim, so a global disable wouldn't upset me. I wouldn't actually vote for it, as my eye filters them out quite effectively (the still ones at least), but it wouldn't bother me either way.
 

Groltz

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timwhit said:
Who wants to vote to disable all smilies? I hate those damn things. I especially hate the ones that move.

Go into your profile and turn "Always enable Smilies" to "No" :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
 

i

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Using your favorite web browser (Mozilla), right click on a smiley, and then select the option, "Block Images from this Server." StorageForum will now appear as bland as you desire.
 

Groltz

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I think that pref is for posting smilies, not viewing them.

I guess so...

Couldn't resist the "thousand points of smilies" to Tim's post, though. :mrgrn:


Back to the topic: I did some idle searching too and it looks like several people have been stumped by the nefarious "Error 1605" on various forums. Makes me want to consider an alternative when I get around to buying an MP3 player.
 

LOST6200

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you could alway sdo liketh esilly guy (me). Surf with teh images off.
 

timwhit

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I don't care about using one smilie if warranted. I care about using 10-20 for no reason. I hate moving smilies.

Just squeeze your rage into a bitter little ball and release it at an appropriate time. Like that day I hit that referee with a whiskey bottle.
 

sechs

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CougTek said:
Shit, I have friends who have iPods (well, not them, but their kids do). So this means I'm the one who will end up dealing with that crap.

Might try to convince folks to try MediaMonkey. It has iPod support.
 

sechs

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timwhit said:
Who wants to vote to disable all smilies? I hate those damn things. I especially hate the ones that move.

You have similies that move? Where?
 

GMac

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Returning to the topic at hand - iTunes 5 was a bug-ridden disaster which lasted no more than 10 minutes on my PC before being completely uninstalled (along with the accompanying version of Quicktime). Fortunately the uninstall shield worked, it didn't break anything on the way out and the previous version (which fortunately I'd kept) went back on without too many problems (had to reimport a few missing albums, but it started seeing my CD drives again). I've since upgraded to version 6 (although again it missed some of my music folders which had to be manually imported), so it sounds as if you've been unlucky Merc. Anyone who got version 5 to work properly in Windows is more than a little fortunate, as most of the stories I've seen & heard of surrounding it have been nearly as grisly as the one Merc mentions (which is why it was pulled by Apple rather smartly and replaced by version 6).

GM
 

Santilli

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It's a bit funny, really. For the longest time, I had to tolerate on the mac, awful, expensive, garbage software from MSFT.

Now, with the success of the iPod, it appears Apple is putting out their usual beta software, promised to work for the two pc's they tested it on...

Welcome to the world of the Maclot...or, former Maclot...
:wink: :mrgrn:

GS
 

Tannin

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Santilli (nd changed around a bit by me) said:
For the longest time on the Mac, I had to tolerate awful, expensive, garbage software from Microsoft. Now, with Itunes on my PC, I have to tolerate awful, expensive, garbage software from Apple.

Well, OK, I admit I haven't ever tried Itunes. But I have more than enough stored-up loathing left over from many and various traumatic experiences with Quicktime that I'd rather forget. Of course, when the alternative is Realplayer .......
 

Santilli

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The great thing about the ipod is apparently the person who bought the darn thing for her went through the torture, and, managed to get the songs loaded.

God Bless Him.

On this machine, not on my machine, it sits dormant, hardly ever used...

GS
 
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