problem Computer Rebuild

[LunarMist]

One of the older small computers is dying and I need to

 

[tazwegion]

Time for a face lift then too perhaps as well as a hardware overhaul

 

[ddrueding]

Are you planning a complete replacement? If not, can you give the specs of the build and what you would like to try and keep? Is the small size still important to you?

 

[LunarMist]

Something happened to my post.

Her motherboard is crapping out, so I need to replace MB, CPU and RAM. The budget is limited to under $500, so I was looking at 2500K, Z68 µATX board, 2x4GB DDR3 1600 RAM, with option to add more RAM later. Is that a reasonable plan? I'm not sure about the board; is the GA-Z68MA-D2H-B3 OK or perhaps it should be something else?

 

[time]

That appears to be the pick of the µATX motherboards right now. I have one here that was going to be built today, but I've been too busy and too tired - should have a report for you by your tomorrow.

I assume you want the 2500K for the HD3000 IGP? Otherwise I'm sticking to the 2400 as the best bang for the buck, cause I don't overclock other people's systems (any more).

And what's with the DDR1600? Are you planning to overclock?

 

[LunarMist]

I actually found 2x2GB DDR3 1600 in a drawer, so I will start with that. I will be using the internal video if that is what you mean by the HD3000. I wil O/C a little if it is feasible with the stock fan, but it may not be so necessary if the CPUs are good as people claim. It will be replacing a C2D.

 

[CougTek]

I hope the RAM stick you found were in anti-static bags and not between your stockings. Either way, run a Memtest pass once they are installed.

I summed up your items and it should cost you ~400$ plus the shipping. I don't know how noisy the other old components are, but in case the rest of the system is fairly quiet and that you want to keep it that way while overclocking the CPU, I recommand spending a small part of the remaining budget on a decent tower heatsink. While a i5 2500K is a relatively low-power processor, the heatsink Intel provides with it is patheticaly small. It will be able to keep the processor at a safe temperature if you overclock moderately, but the fan will produce an annoying amount of noise. A Cooler Master Hyper 212+, Xigmatek SD1283 GAIA, Thermaltake Contac 30, Scythe Mugen 2 Rev.B or any other decent tower heatsink in the ~25-35$ range will be a huge improvement.

 

[LunarMist]

The memory was only used for a while when I was building the 980X system so there is no reason it would not work now. Of course I can buy more, but I wanted to make sure that the CPU/board work well first.

The old system is plenty quiet in this ATX case with the two 120mm fans on low. I cannot remember what cooler is on the Wolfberg C2D now, though I think it is an OEM one from a C2Q. The fan noise is only noticeable under full load, which is not very often as the fan is running on the auto setting in the BIOS.

Are any of the heat sinks mentioned short enough for the µATX case or are there other options? I want one that will be reasonably quiet at the auto setting under idle conditions. It can be noisier under full load, but not obnoxious.

 

[Sol]

I have a 2500K in my system, with the auto-overclocking on the motherboard enabled and the stock heat sink the CPU got disturbingly hot under heavy load. I'd definitely recommend a good after market heat sink, especially because these things overclock like champs (mine readily hits 4.5Ghz) and it kind of feels like leaving performance on the table not to. I think Thermalright do a fairly low profile heat sink for smaller cases (AXP-140 RT) which should still do the job a hell of a lot better than the pathetic chunk of metal Intel ship with the CPU.

 

[CougTek]

None of the heatsinks I mentioned would fit inside the NSK2480. Sol's AXP-140 would, but it's an expensive piece. A cheaper alternative would be the Scythe Big Shuriken, while the most effective heatsink you could use would be the Noctua NH-C14, with only the bottom fan installed. Other possbilities are the Silverstone NT06-E and Prolimatech Samuel 17. You could pair any of those heatsink with a low noise PWM 120mmm fan like the Scythe SY1225SL12LM-P and you woulde get vastly supperior cooling without noise increase.

 

[time]

Here's some cold water.

4.5GHz represents a just noticeable 22% overclock over the default 3.7GHz 'turbo boost'. To achieve that you have to spend money on a bulky aftermarket cooler.

Alternatively, an extra $100 will get you into the equivalent i7 with a marginally higher clock and hyperthreading.

But your user is coming from a Core 2 Duo. A measly 2.6GHz Pentium G620 can match almost all stock-clocked C2Ds and is very likely much faster than what they had. An i5 2500K boosts this by 42%, as well as doubling the number of cores.

So you're at least tripling the CPU power, but AFAIK you're not adding a SSD. Is this the right balance?

 

[LunarMist]

The system has a Wolfberg something or other CPU running 3.50G (mild O/C), with a 40GB StormForce SSD for OS/apps and some often-changed files, 300GB VelociRaptor drive for primary data, and 1.5TB 72000 RPM drive for bulk storage, with an internal (removable bay) 2TB 5400 Samsnug drive backing it all up via sync. The user thinks the system is fast. Of course it is very responsive and nice to use due to the SSD and VelociRaptor , but not so great for converting a large folder of NEFs or CR2s. After looking at all those wide coolers, I think it best to stay with stock for now.

I'm not sure how well mixed RAM works, but if it is not running too fast I hope it is feasible. If so, there will be 12GB, but if not 8GB should be enough for now.

 

[Stereodude]

You have a Volkswagen in the case? That's impressive!

 

[time]

Trust you to have an 'ultimate' setup even in a lesser PC.

I'll reduce my estimate from triple the power to 2.5x, bearing in mind that most of that is from doubling the number of cores.

 

[LunarMist]

Well, maybe more like a 2009 Honda civic.

 

[LunarMist]

Trust you to have an 'ultimate' setup even in a lesser PC.

And it is so cheap, too. I suspect that with a large HSF it would be equal or better than my 4.3GHz hexagonal-cored 980X system at some things.

The main problem is that everything will have be reinstalled/repurchased. That is more costly and time consuming than the hardware update.

 

[ddrueding]

The main problem is that everything will have be reinstalled/repurchased. That is more costly and time consuming than the hardware update.

I'd give you better than 50/50 that you'll be able to recover the install you have to work with the new hardware.

 

[LunarMist]

Yes it runs, but requires reactivation due to "hardware changes." I don't have any more XPP 32 OEM discs.

 

[ddrueding]

That we can solve.

 

[Sol]

If you're replacing the motherboard due to a hardware failure just call MS and they should reactivate with the replacement motherboard. They always have for me anyway (Not that I've needed to do it more than a couple of times).

 

[LunarMist]

The 2500K is pretty good at the standard turbonic boost of 3.7GHz. The 980X is ~35%faster on DPP at 4.3GHz, but of course it has the hexagonal cores not to mention being ~5 times the price 10 months ago. The 2500K would convert files at about the same rate if it were at 5.0GHz. PTGUI is noticeably slower, but I don't have enough RAM yet.

 

[LunarMist]

If you're replacing the motherboard due to a hardware failure just call MS and they should reactivate with the replacement motherboard. They always have for me anyway (Not that I've needed to do it more than a couple of times).

I thought that was only for retail discs.

 

[CougTek]

I would tell them anything but the motherboard changed. Reinstallation due to virus infection or hard disk drive replacement, but not motherboard failure/replacement. According to their EULA, the licence is tied to the motherboard. So replacing the motherboard for any reason might void your licence.

 

[LunarMist]

Are all of the PCIe slots usable for anything, or is the first one only designated for the video cards?

 

[time]

No idea. Based on what others here have experienced, I'd only rely on trying it yourself.

I can't try it on the one I've got here because the Samsung HDD turned out to be defective, so the PC is inoperable.

 

[LunarMist]

Well it is a Samsung, so no surprise there.

 

[CougTek]

I've put PCI-E 1x wifi cards into PCI-E 16x slots before and it worked fine. PCI-E is PCI-E. As long as the card is PCI-E, it'll work.

 

[time]

Someone reported that Asus (?) said they only tested with a graphics card in the 16x slot - was it ddrueding?

 

[Bozo]

I use mostly Intel motherboards, but I have put NICs and RAID controllers in the PCI-E x16 slots with no problems.

 

[LunarMist]

Usually they do, but on one µATX board I had the first slot was only usable for video, and that was the only 8/16 slot. Perhaps that was unusual, but I'm not very familiar with not using a video card.

BTW, does the video for the 2500K play a BR disc? I'm wondering about getting a BR/DVD-RW.

 

[ddrueding]

Someone reported that Asus (?) said they only tested with a graphics card in the 16x slot - was it ddrueding?

What I ran into was that if there was anything in the PCIe slot, the motherboard disabled the onboard graphics. The system would still boot headless, and the slot would work for the RAID card I stuck in it, but the perfectly good onboard video couldn't be turned on. I blame ASUS and their traditionally crappy ways.

 

[LunarMist]

The old board is a Gigabyte G45-something that does the same. I just put a 1x SIL3132-based card in the first slot and it booted with display, but cannot find the driver for the card. I assume that means it is OK to use other cards in that slot.

 

[Bozo]

Is it posible to go into the BIOS and tell it to use the onboard graphics?

 

[ddrueding]

That was my complaint. It was not possible on the ASUS board I was using.

 

[CougTek]

I've never seen an Asus board where you cannot set the primary graphic source from onboard or PCI-E source and I've seen quite a few. Unless the board came from an OEM box. Even their ultra low-end, 50$ boards have that setting.

 

[time]

The fact that you've used quite a few Asus boards does not negate the fact that Ddrueding had a problem. It just means you haven't had the same scenario.

Lunar, I'm afraid I didn't have the energy to try it on the GA-Z68MA-D2H-B3 I had here; I figured you could just try it yourself.

I expect Ddrueding's experience was a one-off, but still worth remembering when making assumptions about these commodity-style products.

 

[time]

FWIW, I wasn't especially impressed by Z68. I noticed that the drivers are all pretty much the same as for H67. A cynic might suggest that in fact there is no hardware difference between H61, H67 and Z68, just software limiting for marketing purposes.

Frankly, if you're not going to use a 3rd generation SSD with 6Gb/s SATA, there is NO return on the significant extra cost over a H61 that I can see, and definitely none over a H67.

IMO, the SSD caching capability is just more Intel farting - I mean marketing. If you can afford their ridiculous 20GB SLC, you can afford a dedicated SSD boot drive, and the former can't hold a candle to the latter.

 

[Sol]

Some budget chipsets don't have enough PCI-E lanes to have both the on-board graphics and the PCI-E 16x slot functional at the same time. I guess that shouldn't apply to a Sandy-bridge system using the Intel graphics though since they're not connected via the PCI-E bus anyway.

 

[LunarMist]

FWIW, I wasn't especially impressed by Z68. I noticed that the drivers are all pretty much the same as for H67. A cynic might suggest that in fact there is no hardware difference between H61, H67 and Z68, just software limiting for marketing purposes.

Frankly, if you're not going to use a 3rd generation SSD with 6Gb/s SATA, there is NO return on the significant extra cost over a H61 that I can see, and definitely none over a H67.

IMO, the SSD caching capability is just more Intel farting - I mean marketing. If you can afford their ridiculous 20GB SLC, you can afford a dedicated SSD boot drive, and the former can't hold a candle to the latter.

The board was only $80, so not bad.

 

[time]

I had to pay AU$132 (excluding tax), and that was the best deal I could find at the time.