Coronavirus

sedrosken

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The Red Cross needs blood. I'm O-, or so all the junk mail they've sent me over the years says. I'm scheduled to donate Tuesday at a rural church roughly 25mi away, I know the area, I used to live there. I'm going in dressed to the gills, who knows what I've come into contact with where I work and with the asymptomatic transfer rates being so high... well, one benefit is I'm actually doing something to help for once, the other is that apparently as part of procedure they have to screen you for COVID now.
 

Chewy509

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Interesting article on effectiveness of face masks...

https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/04/should-you-wear-a-face-mask-heres-all-the-data-we-have/

In short, most cloth/paper masks are useless, unless designed for a N95 rating, or for medical use (eg face masks warn by dentists).

But ultimately, for best protection it appears that a full milspec NBC setup including full face mask would be required...

Found this site for those whom deem themselves at extreme risk: http://approvedgasmasks.com/mask-kits.htm

As someone who has done NBC training (example setup: https://www.australiangasmasks.com/mk-iv-nbc-suit) I wouldn't be too keen to get all kitted up...
 

Newtun

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Sorry, but as an Ugly American, (and as a true American, I mean a citizen of the United States of America, not those un-American Mexicans and Canadians, nor, of course, Central or South Americans :)), the only NBC I'm familiar with is one of our major TV networks.
 

Chewy509

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Sorry, NBC = Nuclear Biological Chemical. Typically used to denote an operating state in which 1 or more of the elements are present on the battlefield or in the local environment. Some of the chemical weapons developed are pretty scary, especially what's called "blood agents". (In short Blood Agents either break down or solidify the blood and other liquids in the human body, and some are capable of acting in seconds or mere minutes after exposure).

Depending on the news source, some are indicating (and I personally don't believe this), that Coronavirus is an escaped biological weapon designed by the PLA/Chinese Government in a lab just north of Wuhan.

Note: There have been several independent studies into the above scenario, and all indicate that the virus has not undergone any human manipulation, therefore the assertion that Coronavirus is an escaped biological weapon is highly unlikely.

On another note, local news papers are now reporting that several wet markets in China are back up and operating as normal... Unsure of what to believe in this instance...
 

jtr1962

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Latest data for NYC:


It looks like keeping people home and social distancing is finally having an effect. The number of hospitalizations and deaths might be plateauing. However, look at the numbers of cases. We're approaching 1% of the population confirmed positive and we're mostly testing just those sick enough to be admitted to a hospital. The actual number of people who had it or have it could be 10% to 20% of the population.

At least one person who works in my brother's hospital has died from this. Health car workers are going to make up a significant percentage of casualties.
 

DrunkenBastard

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I don't know if we can trust the roll off on those graphs, they do have a note saying "Due to delays in reporting,
recent data are incomplete"

What's scary to see are the packed subway cars I'm seeing there on the news. Less riders so less trains and therefore still crowded. Hard to see how to handle that, maybe taxis/rideshares supported by the local government to get a little more separation for essential commuters?
 

jtr1962

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What's scary to see are the packed subway cars I'm seeing there on the news. Less riders so less trains and therefore still crowded. Hard to see how to handle that, maybe taxis/rideshares supported by the local government to get a little more separation for essential commuters?
There wouldn't be enough drivers for that to work. I don't think there's any easy answers here other than distributing N95 masks to anyone who still needs to go outside to work.
 

snowhiker

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The Australian government is now publishing summarised data:

https://www.health.gov.au/news/health-alerts/novel-coronavirus-2019-ncov-health-alert/coronavirus-covid-19-current-situation-and-case-numbers

The number of reported new cases per day is now dropping, however, I can't find the daily testing rates to bring context to the per day new case rate.
This. Without data on the number of tests being performed any data regarding new cases or infection rates is not all that useful.
 

time

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Are there any ways to oxygenate the blood if a person's lungs are compromised to the point that a ventilator is ineffective? That might potentially be a big help here, keeping patients alive until they fight off the infection and their lungs heal enough to breathe without assistance.
BBC News Report:
St Thomas' Hospital has experience in treating coronavirus patients in its ICU. For extremely serious cases it can use a life support machine called ECMO (extracorporeal membrane oxygenation) which replaces some of the function of the heart and lungs. There are only a handful of these machines around the country.
 

Handruin

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Australia isn't going to be alone in the tough decisions on what to do next. I'm assuming none of this will be easy to figure out how to reopen business as usual for citizens.


While some have been reluctant to claim victory against COVID-19 just yet as the true extent of community transmissions is not known, University of Melbourne epidemiologist Tony Blakely believes Australia does have the infection under control and has bought itself time to consider what the next steps should be.

In his opinion, Australia has three choices and each of these come with potentially serious consequences.

In order for Australian life to return to normal, there are only two ways that the virus can be defeated, either a vaccine is found or Australia develops “herd immunity” which means about 60 per cent of the population, or 15 million people, need to be infected.

So we can either wait it out for up to 18 months and hope the vaccine is developed quickly, or we can slowly infect Australians, knowing that some people will die.
 

Chewy509

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time

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A little surprised that no-one mentioned that the British Prime Minister, who has had COVID-19 for 10 days, was admitted to hospital.

A day later, he was moved to the ICU: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-52194875

I looked it up, and whereas you might normally fancy your chances of coming out the other side of ICU, figures from the UK show your odds of this with COVID-19 are only about 50%!

Of course, Boris will have the best possible doctors, but this virus seems to mock physicians' efforts. The telltale everyone is looking for is whether they intubate him on a ventilator (as opposed to oxygen-supplemented CPAP). Your odds of surviving that are poor - again, regular treatments seem to be completely ineffective with COVID-19.
 

Handruin

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I debated mentioning it but figured most already read the headlines. Several of the other online forum-like areas I participate have discussions about his recent diagnosis. The threads tend to focus on contrasting self-conflict of having any feelings for the guy due to the harm/suffering he has caused with his own actions. The discussions remain mature but the undertone is, karma's a bitch. I have little insight into those claims so I refrain from participating.
 

Newtun

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Thanks for the updates, Time. Regarding your earlier comment on ECMO, perhaps Boris could benefit from that, if it is even an option. It seems like another drastic last resort. I don't know which St Thomas' Hospital your report was referring to; I was born there (the one in Akron, Ohio :)).

But I'm sure none of us would seriously wish ill upon anyone else, whatever their political persuasion or position.
 

Handruin

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The Guardian is reporting that Boris Johnson is stable.
Boris Johnson remains in intensive care on oxygen but without the need for a ventilator and does not have pneumonia, No 10 has said.

As Dominic Raab, the foreign secretary, led his second daily coronavirus response meeting on Tuesday, Downing Street said at lunchtime on Tuesday that Johnson was “stable” overnight and remains “in good spirits”, despite his admission to intensive care at St Thomas’ hospital in London on Monday evening.

No 10 would not confirm whether the prime minister was still communicating with officials or ministers by phone or whether he was in contact with family, but said his medical team were keeping Downing Street informed.
 

sedrosken

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Well damn. My pulse was too high to give blood. 112 when their threshold is 100 -- I had a cup of coffee earlier not thinking about it and I don't like needles on the best of days. I drove 25 miles for nothing.
 

jtr1962

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A little surprised that no-one mentioned that the British Prime Minister, who has had COVID-19 for 10 days, was admitted to hospital.
As far as I can tell, it seems to be mostly a precautionary measure so that he has access to care immediately should his condition become life-threatening.

St Thomas' Hospital has experience in treating coronavirus patients in its ICU. For extremely serious cases it can use a life support machine called ECMO (extracorporeal membrane oxygenation) which replaces some of the function of the heart and lungs. There are only a handful of these machines around the country.
In other words, we can directly oxygenate blood but there aren't enough of these machines to make any significant difference in the impact of the virus.
 

Chewy509

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Not surprising naval ships are being hit hard:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/31/us/politics/coronavirus-aircraft-carrier-theodore-roosevelt.html

But note: I didn't see it mentioned in the above NYTime article, is that the Captain of the Carrier was relieved from command...

https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/04/aircraft-carrier-captain-lost-his-command-because-of-catch-22-covid-19-dilemma/
It seems the Navy Secretary who fired the Captain has resigned (more likely forced to quit) over the handling of the incident.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/04/acting-navy-secretary-resigns-after-ousting-captain-calling-him-stupid/
 

Handruin

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I'm interested to see what comes from opening Wuhan or ending a lockdown and how China may spin a recovery or hide more problems. Will we see a large second wave of infected and deaths? I can't imagine they got close to a herd immunity level of infection.


China on Wednesday ended its lockdown of Wuhan, the city where the coronavirus first emerged and a potent symbol in a pandemic that has killed tens of thousands of people, shaken the global economy and thrown daily life into upheaval across the planet.

But the city that has reopened after more than 10 weeks is a profoundly damaged one, a place whose recovery will be watched worldwide for lessons on how populations move past pain and calamity of such staggering magnitude.
 

DrunkenBastard

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A little surprised that no-one mentioned that the British Prime Minister, who has had COVID-19 for 10 days, was admitted to hospital.

A day later, he was moved to the ICU: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-52194875

I looked it up, and whereas you might normally fancy your chances of coming out the other side of ICU, figures from the UK show your odds of this with COVID-19 are only about 50%!

Of course, Boris will have the best possible doctors, but this virus seems to mock physicians' efforts. The telltale everyone is looking for is whether they intubate him on a ventilator (as opposed to oxygen-supplemented CPAP). Your odds of surviving that are poor - again, regular treatments seem to be completely ineffective with COVID-19.
Apparently he was shaking hands vigorously with everyone prior to being diagnosed.
 

Handruin

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You may remember I edited SD post regarding his video. The same woman who made his linked video also made one of these 5G conspiracy videos that are being taken down all over.


YouTube has banned all conspiracy theory videos falsely linking coronavirus symptoms to 5G networks.

The Google-owned service will now delete videos violating the policy. It had previously limited itself to reducing the frequency it recommended them in its Up Next section.

The move follows a live-streamed interview with conspiracy theorist David Icke on Monday, in which he had linked the technology to the pandemic.

YouTube said the video would be wiped.

During the interview, Mr Icke falsely claimed there "is a link between 5G and this health crisis".
 

snowhiker

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I'm interested to see what comes from opening Wuhan or ending a lockdown and how China may spin a recovery or hide more problems. Will we see a large second wave of infected and deaths? I can't imagine they got close to a herd immunity level of infection.

As China's death toll drops below 5% (and eventually 2%??) of worldwide total, any sympathy for China will rapidly turn to blame and hate. I wouldn't be surprised if China dropped quarantine restrictions to get China's overall infections and deaths back up to support their narrative.

New York State now has more confirmed cases than any other country except the US. Unbelievable how badly we botched this.
Trump's and the Federal Government's response was probably a fine line between protecting the economy and preventing panic. Even a few "minor mistakes" or a few days or 1-2 weeks of delay caused disastrous results. Especially when exponential disease growth takes place.

If Trump closed the borders, grounded airlines, put CDC, FEMA and Homeland Security on hot-standby, imposed Federal business closures and forced social distancing a few weeks earlier he'd be called the biggest racist, alarmist, Anti-Chinese, fascist, idiot, etc, etc, etc in the history of the world. And if COVID-19 turned out to be less dangerous and disastrous then the economic hit from the above closures and shutdowns would be disastrous in and of themselves. And since ALL politicians are "forced" to be more concerned with their own re-election than the health, safety and well-being of their constituents we get Trump's slow response.

There is even a little bit of room to discuss the possibility of the press effecting the way Trump acted or didn't act regarding his COVID-19 response. With Trump constantly being ripped into by the press from day one, Trump's PR advisors probably look at the political implications of all presidential actions more thoroughly before taking quick action. A "maybe this will blow over," or "go away in a week" so lets not take any action we can be blamed or ripped for mind-set takes place.

This isn't a Trump only situation, but can be applied more generally to all politicians and leaders. Before social media a 90% or even 55% correct response would be seen as a "good job" and receive a "pat on the back" for doing a good job. But today a 97% correct response means there was a 3% failure. And that 3% failure is what the press sees and amplifies beyond belief and common sense. So decision making tend to overly consider, "How do we handle the tiny failures that will be blown out of proportion," Vs "How do we do mostly the correct thing."

I'm not a Trump apologists or believe he did everything/anything right but the perception that we'd only have 27 infections and 4 deaths if Trump just acted correctly and immediately is ridiculous.
 

jtr1962

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As China's death toll drops below 5% (and eventually 2%??) of worldwide total, any sympathy for China will rapidly turn to blame and hate. I wouldn't be surprised if China dropped quarantine restrictions to get China's overall infections and deaths back up to support their narrative.
I really hope their government isn't that callous. I know they generally don't give a shit about human life, but even by their standards restarting a pandemic is beyond the pale. And doing so will make things for them even worse on the world stage since the restarted pandemic will undoubtedly spread outside their border.

There are two things China can do here which will help their image. One is to shut down the wet markets, and this time for good. Allow regular inspections by other countries to make sure they really are enforcing the ban. Number two is to pressure other countries to shut down their wet markets. They can only credibly do that if they shut down their own first. With loss of natural habitat driving species with unknown diseases into inhabited areas, keeping wet markets open anywhere in the world practically guarantees we're going to see stuff like this on a regular basis. It seems every 5 to 10 years we get a new disease. What happens if something comes out with the transmission of Covid-19 but the mortality rate of Ebola? Sure, the entire human race won't die, but enough of it will to pretty much bring about the end of modern civilization. So let's shut down these wet markets everywhere, not just in China. Consider that we got off fairly easy this time but let's not push our luck.

Trump's and the Federal Government's response was probably a fine line between protecting the economy and preventing panic. Even a few "minor mistakes" or a few days or 1-2 weeks of delay caused disastrous results. Especially when exponential disease growth takes place.
Remember that some areas, like California, handled this much better than others. Trump wasn't the problem in my opinion. The local leadership was. I blame deBlasio for the mess in NYC more than anyone. He was encouraging people to celebrate Chinese New Year's when in all likelihood his experts were telling him the virus was already here. Even worse, since he's a lame duck Mayor with no real political future, he had absolutely nothing to lose by erring on the side of caution. He didn't. And as of today there are over 4,000 dead NYC residents as a result.

I'm not a Trump apologists or believe he did everything/anything right but the perception that we'd only have 27 infections and 4 deaths if Trump just acted correctly and immediately is ridiculous.
No, the numbers wouldn't be that low but I think if we took action sooner we might have had numbers similar to North Korea or Japan.
 

Newtun

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Personally, we're doing OK, thanks. I wish the same for you and all of our members (current and former).

In our area, we have had some "hot spots". One rehab/healthcare facility has had 35 deaths so far.

I picked the wrong time to retire, October of last year. So we won't be getting any economic "stimulus".

Luckily, we are not in dire need, unlike the many people in various industries such as food and other personal services, "gig economy" jobs, etc.
 

snowhiker

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I'm about to hit the grocery store for the first time in nearly a month. I'm not concerned about catching COVID-19 but I'm uneasy about any store/public protocols I should be following.

Will there be a line to get into store?
What will be available for purchase?
Quantity limits on "staple items?"
Do I wear mask?
Gloves?
Should I bring isopropyl-alcohol wipes?
Should I leave items in car for a few days before bringing them into house?
Should I wipe everything down?
If I cough/sneeze because of allergies or just dust are people going to look at me funny?

Lots of stupid OCD type shit for me to worry about. sad-faced-LOL.

If I didn't run out of half-n-half for my coffee I wouldn't need to go to grocery store for at least another week or two. I could probably go another 3-4 weeks before I actually ran "really low" on food. Still have some (to a little) pasta, frozen meals, burgers, hot dogs, bacon, oatmeal, breakfast cereal, can; beef, chicken, tuna, chili, beans, etc. But it would be plain meals, just a can and water.

I need lots of bread/rolls/buns that I can put in freezer. I have bacon in fridge but no bread for sandwiches. PB & J but no bread. Tuna but no bread. Soup but no rolls. Chili but no bread. Hot dogs but no buns. Burgers but no buns. Chicken patties but no buns. Cheese but no bread. ACK!!!
 

Newtun

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I should have added context to my posting just above; that local rehab/healthcare facility has now had 39 deaths, out of 190 beds.

Also, I went for a walk of around a couple of miles this morning, and only about 10% of the people I saw were wearing masks.
 
Last edited:

Handruin

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I'm about to hit the grocery store for the first time in nearly a month. I'm not concerned about catching COVID-19 but I'm uneasy about any store/public protocols I should be following.

Will there be a line to get into store?
What will be available for purchase?
Quantity limits on "staple items?"
Do I wear mask?
Gloves?
Should I bring isopropyl-alcohol wipes?
Should I leave items in car for a few days before bringing them into house?
Should I wipe everything down?
If I cough/sneeze because of allergies or just dust are people going to look at me funny?

Lots of stupid OCD type shit for me to worry about. sad-faced-LOL.

If I didn't run out of half-n-half for my coffee I wouldn't need to go to grocery store for at least another week or two. I could probably go another 3-4 weeks before I actually ran "really low" on food. Still have some (to a little) pasta, frozen meals, burgers, hot dogs, bacon, oatmeal, breakfast cereal, can; beef, chicken, tuna, chili, beans, etc. But it would be plain meals, just a can and water.

I need lots of bread/rolls/buns that I can put in freezer. I have bacon in fridge but no bread for sandwiches. PB & J but no bread. Tuna but no bread. Soup but no rolls. Chili but no bread. Hot dogs but no buns. Burgers but no buns. Chicken patties but no buns. Cheese but no bread. ACK!!!
Depends on your area but there may not be a line. I'd suggest seeing what hours your store might have given all of this and if they dedicated any times for seniors/special needs so that you avoid those hours assuming you do not need them.
  • Availability is the question. My stores are still void of paper products but most everything else is available. You'll just have to go shopping to figure it out. My stores do have limits on certain items due to hoarding so you may have the same.
  • My local stores are also now banning canvas bags; yours may also so you'll need to use the store bags.
  • I would wear gloves during the shopping. Take one off when checking out at the register before touching wallet/cards/etc.
  • I would wear a mask of some kind if you have one for other people's protection.
  • I recommend having the wipes/sanitizer for when you get back into your vehicle. Wipe before getting in and/or before and after touching door handles/trunk etc.
  • We leave non-perishables for 3-4 days in a dedicated location in my house before introducing them into our normal kitchen supply.
  • Perishables you'll need to sanitize then store per usual.
  • Don't worry about the cough/sneeze. People may judge but you'll have to ignore it. If you have to, do it into your arm and leave the mask on, that's why you're wearing it anyway. Think of it this way...other people such as yourself are concerned of the exact same thing. If anyone says or does something, they're the asshole, not you. I strongly doubt they will anyway because they'll want to avoid you. :)
I don't typically each much bread anyway so maybe it's a new opportunity to get more creative when eating things without it.
 

Newtun

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I should have added context to my posting just above; that local rehab/healthcare facility has now had 39 deaths, out of 190 beds.
That facility made the NBC Nightly News national broadcast this evening.
 

DrunkenBastard

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Went to Wegmans today for a good Easter shop, picked up a huge bone in ham and a leg of lamb amongst other things. Only restrictions they have are only a max of 1 item from each family size pack of meat (i.e one big pack of pork chops+1 big pack of mince etc). Also single quantities of first aid items (bandages etc). I think people have finally maxed out on the amount of groceries they can store in their house and started consuming some of it.
 

snowhiker

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Depends on your area but there may not be a line. I'd suggest seeing what hours your store might have given all of this and if they dedicated any times for seniors/special needs so that you avoid those hours assuming you do not need them.
  • Availability is the question. My stores are still void of paper products but most everything else is available. You'll just have to go shopping to figure it out. My stores do have limits on certain items due to hoarding so you may have the same.
  • My local stores are also now banning canvas bags; yours may also so you'll need to use the store bags.
  • I would wear gloves during the shopping. Take one off when checking out at the register before touching wallet/cards/etc.
  • I would wear a mask of some kind if you have one for other people's protection.
  • I recommend having the wipes/sanitizer for when you get back into your vehicle. Wipe before getting in and/or before and after touching door handles/trunk etc.
  • We leave non-perishables for 3-4 days in a dedicated location in my house before introducing them into our normal kitchen supply.
  • Perishables you'll need to sanitize then store per usual.
  • Don't worry about the cough/sneeze. People may judge but you'll have to ignore it. If you have to, do it into your arm and leave the mask on, that's why you're wearing it anyway. Think of it this way...other people such as yourself are concerned of the exact same thing. If anyone says or does something, they're the asshole, not you. I strongly doubt they will anyway because they'll want to avoid you. :)
I don't typically each much bread anyway so maybe it's a new opportunity to get more creative when eating things without it.
My multi-hour shopping adventure...

Most stores are closing one or two hours earlier than normal. The 24-hour WinCo is now closed from 10p-7a. All the grocery stores have set aside 1 to 1.5 hours, starting at 6am or 7am, for senors. I started shopping at 2:30pm. The two stores I went to both had the yellow caution tape entrance lines setup, but neither store had a line and I could just walk right in.

I don't have a mask but I had a bandana tied around my neck just in case. Didn't use it for most part. Only a few seniors had masks. I think I saw one person with rubber gloves on. I probably need to make a mask or use a different material as the bandana was so hot and uncomfortable I could not wear it for longer than 5 minutes without taking it off. I did bring a gallon zip-loc bag with several isopropyl-alcohol wipes to wipe cart and to wipe hands occasionally after touching various items.

First was Fry's Marketplace. No line to get into store. No person outside keeping track of the number of people entering store. Employee was wiping down all the carts are they are being returned by other employees from parking lot. People maintained social distance for the most part but nobody was super anal about it. People quickly walked by each other closer than 6 feet or quickly grabbed an item off shelf. I simply hung back a bit, or if an aisle already had 3+ carts in it I just circled around from next aisle over. Check out lanes had signs on ground saying "wait here" to help people maintain social distance. The checkout registers now have a 2x3 foot sheet of plexiglass so there is a physical barrier between customer and checker. ALL store employees were wearing masks and gloves.

Fry's was out of a few things and I forgot a few things so I went to second store. Second store I went to was Safeway. I don't normally shop there as it's more expensive but it was on the way home. Safeway has stricter social distance policies. Employee outside one entrance/exit had a clicker and was keeping track of number of people coming into store. Store has a 100 person limit. The other entrance/exit was closed and blocked off. Signs on floor at start of each aisle telling people only two carts per aisle and only "one-way-traffic" per aisle. Same signs on floor of checkout registers reminding people to keep their distance.

Like your experience Fry's didn't have paper products. TP, paper towels and napkins were still empty. Rice, pasta (but sauce was OK), flour and other necessary items to bake bread were still gone. Only item limits (max 2 each) I saw was on dairy products, milk, butter, cream, and such. Bottled water was available, although my Arrowhead brand was out. Bread was good. Meat looked good. Didn't notice fresh chicken. "Generic store brand" Bag frozen chicken available. Still less selection and variety than normal. Store can't keep the Marie Callender's Chicken Pot pies in stock for shit however. Pandemic or not. Fuckers. Anyways...outside, rice, pasta, flour, paper items, store mostly stocked.

Neither store banned canvas bags but said you had to bag your own if you brought them from home. I didn't wear gloves or wipe down my car before re-entry. I also didn't quarantine non-perishables or wipe down fridge/freezer items.

I guess with under 1,700 COVID-19 cases for Maricopa County, AZ (3.82M pop) people, myself included, are not being super cautious or following strict disease prevention protocols.

Except for fresh produce I can easily go another five or six weeks now with the food I have. And I have another two weeks after that of say alive supplies. TP still good as I bought two 30-packs from Costco in late Feb and just cracked one open last week. As long as the 6 quarts of half-n-half from my coffee doesn't run out I'm good.
 

sedrosken

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There is even a little bit of room to discuss the possibility of the press effecting the way Trump acted or didn't act regarding his COVID-19 response. With Trump constantly being ripped into by the press from day one, Trump's PR advisors probably look at the political implications of all presidential actions more thoroughly before taking quick action. A "maybe this will blow over," or "go away in a week" so lets not take any action we can be blamed or ripped for mind-set takes place.
This bit really got me thinking. I hadn't really thought of it that way and the more I do, the more it makes sense. Then again, Trump's always the type to do what he wants, damn the press. His people will fervently support him either way -- they're like a damn cult. Wouldn't be at all surprised if they don't push for a constitutional amendment to make him president for life, the way some of them act. Not that I'm trying to reopen the political discussion at all -- just an observation.

I've seen so many comments on the news videos on YouTube and such asking stuff like "how can they say things are looking better when we keep having record-setting deaths" and I can't help but shake my head -- the people dying today are the people who were infected weeks ago. That we're seeing less people going in is promising fewer deaths for the future.
 
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