Coronavirus

DrunkenBastard

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What I'm finding really interesting is that there are countries with extremely low case fatality rates. Singapore has 25,346 confirmed cases but only 21 deaths. That's a case fatality rate of only 0.083%. Qatar has 26,539 cases and only 14 deaths, for a CFR of 0.053%. Both of these countries were well over 10K cases 3 weeks ago, so it's not a matter of having 25K+ cases now but zero only a week ago, which might explain the very low numbers. Even using numbers from 3 weeks ago as the divisor gives you case fatality rates not much over 0.1%. Are some countries just really good at treating cases? If so, then this means other countries, like the US, are really bad at it.

I wonder if the CFR with proper, timely treatment might be well under 0.1%, instead of the 0.5% to 1% that we're seeing in most places. We should ask Qatar and Singapore what they're doing to save nearly everyone who gets sick.

Or might it be possible that in some places, perhaps including Russia, the virus mutated to a far less lethal form? Singapore and Qatar didn't start getting many cases until early April. Ditto for Russia. Meanwhile places like Italy and the US already had lots of infected people probably well back in February.
Not sure about Qatar but Singapore and Russia have very controlled press (dare to say something bad about the ruling political party and be locked up etc). You won't hear something the government doesn't want you to know.
 

Newtun

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From: Trump says he’s taking hydroxychloroquine against Covid-19 despite FDA warnings:

Trump said he was taking hydroxychloroquine – a drug approved to treat malaria, lupus and rheumatoid arthritis – in response to the coronavirus threat.

But the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has been warning since April that the drug should not be used for that purpose because it could cause irregular heartbeats and other cardiac trauma.

The drug is not approved as a treatment for Covid-19 and Trump has not been diagnosed with the disease, to public knowledge.

Trump’s claim to be taking the drug was made as he attacked an administration whistleblower who went before Congress last week and described internal pressure to endorse the drug as an effective coronavirus treatment.

The whistleblower, Rick Bright, was the former director of a federal agency in charge of vaccines.

On Monday, Trump called Bright a hypocrite and then riffed on the supposed benefits of the drug, which the FDA advised has “not been shown to be safe and effective for treating or preventing Covid-19”.

“You’d be surprised at how many people are taking it … The frontline workers many many are taking it,” Trump said.

“I happen to be taking it. I happen to be taking it. I’m taking it, hydroxychloroquine. Right now, yeah. A couple weeks ago I started taking it. Because I think it’s good, I heard a lot of good stories … I take a pill every day.”

Sean P Conley, Trump’s physician, said in a memo that after “numerous discussions” with the president “for and against the use of hydroxychloroquine, we concluded the potential benefit from treatment outweighed the relative risks”.

Previously, Trump had endorsed the injection of disinfectants or light into the body to fight coronavirus – recommendations that were followed by a spike in calls to poison control centers.

But Trump had never before claimed to be trying one of the home remedies himself.

A string of studies around the world have suggested that hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine do little to prevent or treat Covid-19, and the FDA has cautioned against the use of either drug for Covid-19 outside of the hospital setting or a clinical trial “due to risk of heart rhythm problems”.
 

Handruin

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Sounds about right...he's a con man.

Don't forget, nobody knows this stuff better than he does...
 

jtr1962

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If nothing else, this might make the election a nonissue. If he kills himself taking this, I doubt Pence will get enough votes to become President.

I know Trump wasn't the brightest bulb on the string, but this just shows the depths of his ignorance.
 

Handruin

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If nothing else, this might make the election a nonissue. If he kills himself taking this, I doubt Pence will get enough votes to become President.

I know Trump wasn't the brightest bulb on the string, but this just shows the depths of his ignorance.
I agree, I don't think Pence would be able to carry on in the event Trump kills himself.

The depth of his ignorance combined with his fragile ego makes for a very conforming party. If you don't do exactly what he wants even when it's incredibly ignorant, you're gone and then made fun of. That builds a party of "yes" people which helps almost no one but Trump.
 

jtr1962

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Handruin

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Maybe...at the very least he has all the traits and symptoms of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Here are some symptoms...of which anyone can observe right from Trump's weekly public addresses. No need to rely on any questionable media source...observe it yourself. I'm not a doctor, I'm simply pointing out how every one of the symptoms listed below has been observed by him...sometimes on a weekly basis.


Symptoms
Signs and symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder and the severity of symptoms vary. People with the disorder can:
  • Have an exaggerated sense of self-importance
  • Have a sense of entitlement and require constant, excessive admiration
  • Expect to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it
  • Exaggerate achievements and talents
  • Be preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate
  • Believe they are superior and can only associate with equally special people
  • Monopolize conversations and belittle or look down on people they perceive as inferior
  • Expect special favors and unquestioning compliance with their expectations
  • Take advantage of others to get what they want
  • Have an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others
  • Be envious of others and believe others envy them
  • Behave in an arrogant or haughty manner, coming across as conceited, boastful and pretentious
  • Insist on having the best of everything — for instance, the best car or office
 

jtr1962

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Yep. I've noticed the same. For what it's worth narcissistic personality disorder leads exactly to the kinds of brutal dictatorships I mentioned under the right circumstances. Thank goodness for our system of checks and balances, at least so far. Give Trump another term though, and he might find ways around those. Remember Hitler came to power in a strong democracy.
 

Handruin

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Yep. I've noticed the same. For what it's worth narcissistic personality disorder leads exactly to the kinds of brutal dictatorships I mentioned under the right circumstances. Thank goodness for our system of checks and balances, at least so far. Give Trump another term though, and he might find ways around those. Remember Hitler came to power in a strong democracy.
I also have concerns that if he does not win another term, he will do his best to be like an abusive spouse, abusing to the nation. He may likely take down anything and making things as bad as he can on his way out in spite. This is what the country elected and we have to all deal with it. Unfortunately Biden isn't much to write home about either.

Everything happening with covid and how it's affecting people's livelihood is a real example of how messed up our entire system and economy are. If Warren's proposed medicare-for-all seemed alarming to folks for costing around $20.5 trillion over 10 years ($2 trillion a year). We've basically given that to the citizens in stimulus in the matter of months and likely more than that amount coming again soon. Having healthcare covered for all is especially relevant with covid.
 

Handruin

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You know it's bad when Fox news has negative comments and reactions to Trump taking hydroxychloroquine...
 

jtr1962

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I also have concerns that if he does not win another term, he will do his best to be like an abusive spouse, abusing to the nation. He may likely take down anything and making things as bad as he can on his way out in spite. This is what the country elected and we have to all deal with it. Unfortunately Biden isn't much to write home about either.

Everything happening with covid and how it's affecting people's livelihood is a real example of how messed up our entire system and economy are. If Warren's proposed medicare-for-all seemed alarming to folks for costing around $20.5 trillion over 10 years ($2 trillion a year). We've basically given that to the citizens in stimulus in the matter of months and likely more than that amount coming again soon. Having healthcare covered for all is especially relevant with covid.
Totally agree with everything. Biden is better than Trump in the way a glass of lukewarm milk is better than sour milk but seriously, what an uninspiring choice. The Democrats complain about Trump winning, but maybe if they ran and picked better people in the primaries this wouldn't have happened. In any case, I think Biden's VP pick is going to really matter here given the high likelihood he won't be able to finish out his term.

I can easily see Trump destroying anything he can between election day and January 20 if he loses. Heck, he might even try to get us into a military conflict with China or Russia just to hand his successor even more shit to deal with, as if this virus and the deep recession/possible depression on the way isn't already enough.

Yeah, given what this is costing us, Medicare-for-all seems a bargain by comparison. The problem is the opponents never look at the other side of the ledger. Besides people not dying of preventable conditions because they can't afford to see doctors, companies will no longer have health insurance bills for their employees. That money can directly fund Medicare for all. In essence, despite the sticker shock at the price tag, overall we might be spending less on healthcare for better results. The only difference is more healthcare dollars will go to the government instead of to private insurance companies. I don't see what the difference is but the GOP has a fundamental problem with stuff like that. If a stupid corporation makes money they're happy, but if it costs less for government to provide the same service they see it as more big government.
 

Handruin

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Totally agree with everything. Biden is better than Trump in the way a glass of lukewarm milk is better than sour milk but seriously, what an uninspiring choice. The Democrats complain about Trump winning, but maybe if they ran and picked better people in the primaries this wouldn't have happened. In any case, I think Biden's VP pick is going to really matter here given the high likelihood he won't be able to finish out his term.

I can easily see Trump destroying anything he can between election day and January 20 if he loses. Heck, he might even try to get us into a military conflict with China or Russia just to hand his successor even more shit to deal with, as if this virus and the deep recession/possible depression on the way isn't already enough.

Yeah, given what this is costing us, Medicare-for-all seems a bargain by comparison. The problem is the opponents never look at the other side of the ledger. Besides people not dying of preventable conditions because they can't afford to see doctors, companies will no longer have health insurance bills for their employees. That money can directly fund Medicare for all. In essence, despite the sticker shock at the price tag, overall we might be spending less on healthcare for better results. The only difference is more healthcare dollars will go to the government instead of to private insurance companies. I don't see what the difference is but the GOP has a fundamental problem with stuff like that. If a stupid corporation makes money they're happy, but if it costs less for government to provide the same service they see it as more big government.
Cynically my opinion on Biden winning the nomination is because it fits the DNC narrative of wanting a moderate candidate. There is so much money in the DNC that I honestly believe the DNC would rather have Trump than say Bernie/Warren/etc who are progressives. Their wealth will persist under Trump as much as it would under Biden, but not some of the progressive candidates.

I like this point from AOC when it comes to taxing the rich.


Screen Shot 2020-05-19 at 7.21.38 PM.png
 

jtr1962

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Cynically my opinion on Biden winning the nomination is because it fits the DNC narrative of wanting a moderate candidate. There is so much money in the DNC that I honestly believe the DNC would rather have Trump than say Bernie/Warren/etc who are progressives. Their wealth will persist under Trump as much as it would under Biden, but not some of the progressive candidates.

I like this point from AOC when it comes to taxing the rich.


View attachment 1488
You're probably right. A lot of Democrats are hypocrites where they might do stuff like give lip service to climate change, but are driven everywhere in limos, have huge houses, and constantly fly. Of course they don't want a true progressive to come to power because it might knock one zero off their net worth. Never mind that they would still be worth many multiples of what you or I will make in our entire lives. The reason for taxing the very wealthy is because no good comes from having multibillionaires. Millionaires are fine, and that's a just reward if you produce a good or service people need. But really, how much money do people need? I've told many people if I was worth even $5 million, I would never want to work another day in my life. Our tax system should just prevent people from becoming super rich because as AOC mentions, no good comes of it.
 

jtr1962

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Your cat got covid?
Of course not. It's just a little humor. I wanted to photoshop bat wings on her as well, but I couldn't get the end result to look credible.

Cats can actually get covid from humans but my understanding is they can't pass it to humans and they don't show severe symptoms:


 

Chewy509

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So, if President Trump contracts Coronavirus, will he or others ever admit to fact that he contradicted it despite being on the anti-viral or not?

Also at what dosage is he taking it? IIRC, hydroxychloroquine is given at different dosages depending on usage...
 

Chewy509

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Just looked it up, for Hydroxychloroquine 200mg tablets, recommended is:

Rheumatoid arthritis : 2-3 tablets per day.
SLE and DLE : 2-4 tablets per day.
Treatment of Malaria : 4 tablets initially, 8 tablets 8hrs later, then 2 tablets per day.
Control of Malaria Symptoms: 2 tablets per week.

Max dose is 1000mg per day, otherwise overdose symptoms will occur.

Side effects:
• nausea • vomiting • diarrhoea • abdominal cramps • loss of appetite • muscle weakness • dizziness • ringing in the ears • headache • nervousness • skin rash and itching • hair loss

Severe side effects:
• visual disturbances • any hearing loss • frequent fevers, severe chills, bruising, sore throat or mouth ulcers (these may be signs of blood reactions) • More severe symptoms of hypoglycaemia, including disorientation, seizures, fits or convulsions and loss of consciousness • nightmares • abnormal behaviour such as delusions, hallucinations and feeling agitated • suicidal behaviour • movement problems, such uncontrolled movements, stiffness or tremors • wide spread rash with blisters, with or without fever, which can indicate a severe drug induced allergic reaction. It can involve blood changes and internal organs.

Source: https://www.ebs.tga.gov.au/ebs/picmi/picmirepository.nsf/PICMI?OpenForm&t=&q=hydroxychloroquine
https://www.ebs.tga.gov.au/ebs/picmi/picmirepository.nsf/pdf?OpenAgent&id=CP-2012-CMI-02572-1
 

Handruin

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Given Trumps history of making up things and so many false claims, it's not believable that he's taking this medicine. Even if he is and contracts covid, I doubt he would say either way. The US would only know if he became hospitalized but not if he contracted it. He's also not wearing masks like is recommended/required for the rest of us despite have a confirmed positive staffer.
 

jtr1962

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Brazil is now in the number two spot for number of cases. Number six for number of deaths but that's rising so rapidly I'd say they'll be at number two in less than two weeks. They may even ultimately give the US a run for its money for the top spot. So much for the hopes the virus doesn't spread as quickly in hot climates. Apparently it does.
 

snowhiker

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Brazil is now in the number two spot for number of cases. Number six for number of deaths but that's rising so rapidly I'd say they'll be at number two in less than two weeks. They may even ultimately give the US a run for its money for the top spot. So much for the hopes the virus doesn't spread as quickly in hot climates. Apparently it does.
Looks like Russia and Brazil are vying for the number two spot. Brazil has 7x the reported deaths as Russia though, per the JHU site.

Nobody knows the complete methodology any of these countries and hospitals are using to tie deaths to COVID-19. Was COVID-19 the; Direct/only cause? Most likely cause? Partial cause? Ancillary cause? Minor cause? Did not cause but was present at death? Listed to get more COVID-19 funding, re-reimbursements, grants, etc???

It's not even apples to oranges. It's apples to batteries.

The average number of new infections has been constant for the last six weeks with no end in sight. Slight uptick the last few days, hopefully not a sign of things to come.

Daily new cases.JPG
 

jtr1962

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Yes, it looks like the number of new cases is still rising linearly worldwide but linear is far better than exponential. I also noticed the increase in the number of deaths actually is slowing down. You can clearly see it here:

1590268738765.png

We're probably getting better at treating this, which is good news. Until a vaccine is available, slowing the spread and better treatments are all we have.
 

Tea

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I reckon Trump's doctor - who will be perfectly well aware that he has to do whatever Trump says or be yet another White House sacking - will have indeed supplied the anti-malaria drug, but not being completely stupid, he will have had someone fix him up with a special supply of, say, 2mg tablets. Trump can take one of those every day - "Yes Mr President, these tablets contain Hydroxychloroquine" - and be perfectly safe because he's getting 1/100th of the usual minimum dose.
 

Chewy509

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Now with restrictions being lifted here, and having the ability to get out for non-essential things, it would appear that most people have forgotten or don't wish to consider that social distancing rules (keep 1.5m distance) still apply. While I acknowledge risk of community transmission to be extremely low**, the social distancing aspect will also have benefit for other conditions like the common cold and flu... (and we are now entering our traditional cold/flu session).

Case in point, went to Ikea last weekend to get a new desk chair, lifts are clearly marked that no more than 1 person (or 1 group of related people) are to use the lift at once, saw 4 non-related groups (12 people) enter the left at once. Saw a mum and dad (with their 2mth old infant), the father was touching all items in the store, running hands along hand rails, and then caressing his infant without first washing his hands... (As I said, while the risk is low for COVID, the flu/common cold can have a nasty effect on infants), and that the weren't keeping distance from others...

The other big contention here at the moment, is that all borders between states are closed (one can still cross borders for a list of valid reasons)... Some state governments are calling for opening borders, unfortunately, those same states will appear to have new daily cases from community transmission, and coupled with personal experience seeing how people are now acting, I do have some concern that a second wave will hit hard.

** In the state of QLD, we only have 17 active (known) cases: https://www.health.qld.gov.au/news-events/doh-media-releases/releases/queensland-novel-coronavirus-covid-19-update41 (lastest update from this morning, indicates only 6 active cases: https://www.qld.gov.au/health/conditions/health-alerts/coronavirus-covid-19/current-status/statistics ). State population = 5.1million.
** Current restrictions: https://www.health.qld.gov.au/system-governance/legislation/cho-public-health-directions-under-expanded-public-health-act-powers/home-confinement-movement-gathering-direction/help
 

Newtun

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It's classic Trump move to spout BS like this Hydroxychloroquine, claim it's significance, and then the rest of the people have to continue to try and defend/disprove it months later while a dozen other news claims have been made.
The Trump Regime:​
Revenge Against the Nerds
;) 🤪
 
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