Goddammitsofuckingmuch
- Thread starter Mercutio
- Start date
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
I didn't do it right so now that I've had my tea
GODDAMMITSOFUCKINGMUCH
Tannin
Storage? I am Storage!
What Merc said. Exactly what Merc said.
Chewy509
Wotty wot wot.
So that leaves:
1. Seagate (aka Samsung, Maxtor, etc)
2. WDC (aka Hitachi, IBM, etc)
3. Toshiba (aka Fujistu).
And Toshiba appear to only sell to other big OEMs (like IBM, HP, etc), so for the common person, it's either Seagate or WDC.
Truely, as Merc put it. GODDAMMITSOFUCKINGMUCH.
A question to be raised is, does that mean those 3 companies above hold ALL the IP/Patents collectively in regards to HDD technology? Or do IBM and a few of the old players that are still around still hold IP/Patents on the technology?
1. Seagate (aka Samsung, Maxtor, etc)
2. WDC (aka Hitachi, IBM, etc)
3. Toshiba (aka Fujistu).
And Toshiba appear to only sell to other big OEMs (like IBM, HP, etc), so for the common person, it's either Seagate or WDC.
Truely, as Merc put it. GODDAMMITSOFUCKINGMUCH.
A question to be raised is, does that mean those 3 companies above hold ALL the IP/Patents collectively in regards to HDD technology? Or do IBM and a few of the old players that are still around still hold IP/Patents on the technology?
Tannin
Storage? I am Storage!
I'd rather have a Seagate drive than a Toshiba. Or a Hitachi. And obviously a Samsung. I'd take a Toshiba before a WD, but who wouldn't?
This sucks.
This sucks.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
Storageforum is the number one google search result for GODDAMMITSOFUCKINGMUCH.
Will Rickards
Storage Is My Life
This was bound to happen from an economic standpoint though. The hard drive business must be really low margin. I mean you get a 1TB drive for like $60 and a 2TB for like $80. When the margins get low, you have to do volume.
ddrueding
Fixture
When margins get this low, you need to semi-monopolize the market so you can get margins back up 
Will Rickards
Storage Is My Life
Other than seagate's hybrid hard drives what innovation is left in spinning disks?
We are all just waiting for the day our RAM is non-volatile anyway.
We are all just waiting for the day our RAM is non-volatile anyway.
Bozo
Storage? I am Storage!
Most of the newer PLC's (Programmable Logic Controller) already have non-volatile memory.
Chewy509
Wotty wot wot.
Other than greater storage density which appears to be getting to it's limit (with current technology), I don't see much beyond 4-5TB 3.5 disks.
Non-volatile RAM is being reseatched in a big way, eg NRAM and millipede. The one thing I like about NRAM, is that it offers similar density and performance to regular DRAM, but is non-volatile. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nano-RAM
Friends don't let friends buy Seagate. I only ever had three 7200.8. All died with a slow clicking (full seek?) noise within the warranty period. SMART and Seatools report no error, but Seagate acknowledge the problem as performance goes in the toilet, and will replace the drive. The catch, Seagates warranty agent in Aus want ~$37 bucks to process end user claims. Plus postage. Add shipping and so for about $57 I cam get a replacement 200GB drive. Or I can spend $57 and buy a Samsung 1TB new. Or could. Until this. Seagates warranty isn't worth sh!te. And I'm not sure that that charge to process the claim is even valid under the Trade Practices Act.
Not sure about 7200.9's, but issues (and denials of issues) with 7200.10's and 11 are documented.
Western Digital all the way. Prices will only go up.
Chewy509
Wotty wot wot.
Strange, is that through Seagate direct? I only say that, as the only time I've been charged for anything (other than shipping) is for advance replacements.
Mind you I ship direct to Sydney (last time was for a 10K.6, and before that a 7200.7), and never had an issue, nor any additional costs. But that was 3yrs ago, unless the policy has changed since?
I do know that retail external drives must go back through the retailer, but for OEM stuff, I've only done direct back to Seagate.
Tannin
Storage? I am Storage!
It's a non-issue, Liam. The only warranty service that matters is the warranty service I provide. I sold the drive; I am the person my customers expect to service the warranty. I need the ability to get prompt, cost effective service so that I can afford to continue providing the prompt, fuss-free warranty service my customers expect. OR I need drives that just don't fail. Right now, I have both. My Samsung RMA rate remains miniscule, and as a general rule I don't sell any other brands, though out of stocks have seen me use a few Seagates of late.
I haven't had to RMA a Seagate drive for ... oh ... five years or longer, I guess. But then perhaps that is because I haven't sold a Seagate drive for something like seven or eight years. (Until just now - I'm having trouble with prompt supply of Samsung drives.) But I expect them to provide prompt, efficient service or else front up to the ACC when I issue a complaint about their breecxh of Austrailian consumer law. My very confident guess is that they will provide the same excekllent service that they always used to back when we were a full-on Seagate dealer.
But we shall see.
I haven't had to RMA a Seagate drive for ... oh ... five years or longer, I guess. But then perhaps that is because I haven't sold a Seagate drive for something like seven or eight years. (Until just now - I'm having trouble with prompt supply of Samsung drives.) But I expect them to provide prompt, efficient service or else front up to the ACC when I issue a complaint about their breecxh of Austrailian consumer law. My very confident guess is that they will provide the same excekllent service that they always used to back when we were a full-on Seagate dealer.
But we shall see.
Increased sizes. Increased performance. Increased reliability. With less drive manufacturers pushing in those areas, why would seagate or WD continue?
mubs
Storage? I am Storage!
Since the higher capacities are less reliable and Samsung and Hibachi are going bye, maybe it's a good idea to stock up on some Sammy or Hibachi 1TB drives?
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
Hitachi's 7k1000 aren't terribly reliable either. I sure do love me some HD103UJs, though.
mubs
Storage? I am Storage!
You make me nervous! I have a Hibachi 1TB drive as my boot drive; can't recollect the model # (at work now).
I'll try to rustle up some Sammys for the new PC I'm planning to build in the fall. My current one is 5 years old now.
Stereodude
Not really a
Because if they don't spinning HD's will go the way of the dodo even faster at the hand of SSDs.
ddrueding
Fixture
...but if someone were to walk into an abandoned HDD space, it would be some bare-bones company with no QA knowledge at all. Welcome back to 100GB drives with 14ms access times and a super low MTBF.
Stereodude
Not really a
That seems rather unlikely. They would just buy up the IP / know how from one of the former players who would be happy to unload it and get something for it.
ddrueding
Fixture
It is of course an absolute worst case scenario. But the current generation tech requires tolerances and QC on the cutting edge. How far back would they have to go for a run-down production line in some third-world country to be able to knock them out reliably for $25?
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
Bring back Quantum.
I bought a Quantum product just last year.
Tannin
Storage? I am Storage!
Why is anyone even bothering to talk about Seagate and WD failing? What an absurd idea! This is the whole point - now that there are just two players, they will sit back and take it easy. Prices will not go up, they just won't continue to fall the way they did when there was a hard drive market, and reliability will fall too.
A duopoly isn't as rapacious and anti-customer as a monopoly, but it can come quite close. And in the (very unlikely) event that Seagatre or WD failed, the remaining one would make money the same way that other monopolies in this industry do - i.e., by the farnarkling truckload!
You don't happen to own any Intel or Microsoft shares, do you people? that's the sort of profit margin (say) Seagate could expect as of right if WD was to fail, and vice-versa.
----------------------------
Tape drives, Merc. Yuk.
Would you like one? I have one right here ... runs off a floppy controller. Don't remember the capacity - 170MB compressed maybe?
A duopoly isn't as rapacious and anti-customer as a monopoly, but it can come quite close. And in the (very unlikely) event that Seagatre or WD failed, the remaining one would make money the same way that other monopolies in this industry do - i.e., by the farnarkling truckload!
You don't happen to own any Intel or Microsoft shares, do you people? that's the sort of profit margin (say) Seagate could expect as of right if WD was to fail, and vice-versa.
----------------------------
Tape drives, Merc. Yuk.
Would you like one? I have one right here ... runs off a floppy controller. Don't remember the capacity - 170MB compressed maybe?
time
Storage? I am Storage!
Steady on, I have one in the desktop in front of me.
I don't know whether it's the Hitachi 1TB or the Samsung 500MB, but the two together emit a highly unpleasant droning 'beat' of about 0.5Hz that really gets into my skull. I've never been able to single out the main offender.
time
Storage? I am Storage!
Where's your evidence? SSD pricing is much the same as it was nearly a year ago. Larger capacity needs higher density flash, and the smaller the process, the shorter the life and the poorer the performance and reliability.
I think this whole debacle is driven by half-assed analysts who don't understand these issues at all, but believe the fanbois who loudly proclaim that mechanical drives are already obsolete.
Yeah, and I'm not surprised. HDs will be around for a long time.:colors:
time
Storage? I am Storage!
I'm only aware of a single new entrant to this market in the last 20 years: Samsung. There is absolutely, positively no chance whatsoever of anyone else investing in this market. If it reduces to one player, it will stay as one player. It could even reduce to none - even then there's no guarantee that a viable vendor will emerge, because all the shiny-asses think that hard drives are a commodity and have no future anyway. I don't think that will happen in practise, but I want to make the point that there is no magic rule that says it won't.
mubs
Storage? I am Storage!
Damn! Damn! Damn!
It appears Samsung India altered their website a few weeks backs to not show internal HDDs. Searching finds a link titled "oldies but goodies", clicking which results in a "sorry we can't find that page". Online, I am unable to find anybody carrying Sammys, save one dealer that's got a mobile drive.
There are still Hibachis around. And of course, plenty of WDs.
Looks like I may have to settle for a couple of Hibachis and a couple of WDs.
It appears Samsung India altered their website a few weeks backs to not show internal HDDs. Searching finds a link titled "oldies but goodies", clicking which results in a "sorry we can't find that page". Online, I am unable to find anybody carrying Sammys, save one dealer that's got a mobile drive.
There are still Hibachis around. And of course, plenty of WDs.
Looks like I may have to settle for a couple of Hibachis and a couple of WDs.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
I did want one. In fact, I needed one. Mine is LTO4 and holds 15 tapes + the cleaning tape, for a total uncompressed capacity of 12TB. The tapes are cheap, they'll last essentially forever (probably eight to ten years based on my expected usage pattern) and they're easy to store. Given the capacities of data I need to deal with, no other media is even remotely appropriate. The tapes are also pretty fast, with STR that's in line with the speed of a typical 7200rpm drive. I recognize that at some point I'll be able to buy a single hard disk that holds 1TB for what a single tape costs me, but that drive would still be delicate and bulky. Tape is not always bad.
paugie
Storage is cool
Do I have the money to buy one more Samsung 1Tb drive with 32mb cache? Beg, steal or borrow is probably my next move/s.
The Hitachi 1Tb the vendors are selling are only 16mb cache models.
Funny thing is, they seems to be sooo heavy.
The Hitachi 1Tb the vendors are selling are only 16mb cache models.
Funny thing is, they seems to be sooo heavy.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
They are heavier. They probably have one more platter than the other models.