How do people meet people?

[flagreen]

I've described this to therapists as being "constitutionally incapable of having a good time".

It's called depression. You don't seem to realize it but your thinking is twisted by the illness.

 

[slo crostic]

If you go out expecting to have a bad time there's only one thing that's certain ... you won't have a good time.

 

[Howell]

The summer before my junior year of college, I spent a great deal of time with Amy. In my mind, we had established the "rules" as being "just friends"; we spent EVERY summer together, and had for five years.

Pardon the delay, I was hoping to allow time for others to opine.

So the five years of summers you spent with her she was not someone you cared about? You seem to have this definition that there is a small group of people you care about and everyone else you don't care about.

Truthfully, the progression of your relationship is nowhere close to unique. That's not to say it's not special, it's always special but it's not unique. You spent a great deal of time getting to know each other and learning to trust each other. This is the natural progression of intimacy.

It starts off with physical attraction and progresses to love and trust. Trust is integral and the loss of trust is a big reason why divorces happen.

Friendships develop similarly. The time you spend up front getting to know a person is where the trust starts to develop.

If you can figure out where in all that to draw the line, Howell, let me know. Amy's the only person I can say with certainly to have made that jump since I was a boy.

My perspective is that for whatever reason you will not allow anyone you can physically touch to have any kind of relationship with you unless it is going to be a romantic one. You have lots of reasons and excuses for why this is but you are going to have to trust someone a lit bit if you are to make any progress.

 

[Mercutio]

So the five years of summers you spent with her she was not someone you cared about? You seem to have this definition that there is a small group of people you care about and everyone else you don't care about.

Er, no. In those five years, I was close to her and cared about her very much, but at that time, there were also limits e.g. we didn't give each other birthday presents or or get involved in one another's family responsibilities.

This is observably similar to the friendships between most other adults I'm aware of.

It starts off with physical attraction and progresses to love and trust. Trust is integral and the loss of trust is a big reason why divorces happen.

The funny thing here is that physical attraction happened last. She was my friend. I had no inclination to seek a romantic entanglement with ANYONE, but particularly her, because not long after we started hanging around each other she'd said something to indicate she didn't want that either (she later told me that she didn't want to scare me). It took a long time to get over that.

For her, I don't know if it ever happened. One of the things she told me, after her initial, uh, experience, was that she'd never understood what lust was before. The sad thing here is that this is what I am competing against - as much as she felt for me, the unspoken part of her statement was "now that I've felt this, I'm not going to be complete without it, no matter how I feel about you."

I lost, of course. I still hope every single day that something can be worked out, even if I know there's no realistic point in doing so. It's still what keeps me going.

We had all the intellectual and emotional stuff worked out from all the time we'd already spent with each other.

Trust in this case is a funny thing. Amy had a traumatic experience shortly before I met her. She fought with that a lot, I think. I tried to be as open as I could, once I got over the shock of being in a position where I *could* be as open as I could.

My perspective is that for whatever reason you will not allow anyone you can physically touch to have any kind of relationship with you unless it is going to be a romantic one. You have lots of reasons and excuses for why this is but you are going to have to trust someone a lit bit if you are to make any progress.

I'm not looking for a romantic relationship. I wasn't looking for the one that I had (have, the biggest part of me will always say) - she did 99% of the work to get me to the point where I could take the last step. To me something like that is inconceivable. I know it happens to other people all the time, but for me? How could it? It's not even possible.

Meeting someone I could actually speak to was the goal. I've realized there's really nothing I'm able to actually do, that would put me in a position for that to happen.

 

[dagtag]

Mercutio...

I just read your posts, and I feel for you, or rather a man in your circumstances. In my own way, I was where you are a few years ago, then decided to focus on the men that could appreciate me and patiently wait.

You made somewhat of a connection once, and if you are open, it will happen again. There are just too many people on the planet for you not to connect. No offense, and I'm sorry if anyone else raised this issue, but might you suffer from a mild form of autism? Maybe it's not just the blues, maybe it's genetic.

This may also be silly, but I notice that men with cute animals get far more attention. Try to look your best, so when the right person comes along, you're prepared.

Take care, and good luck.

 

[CougTek]

Re: Mercutio...

No offense, and I'm sorry if anyone else raised this issue, but might you suffer from a mild form of autism?

If you read Merc's posts on the second page of this thread, you'll see that that he strongly believe he is.

In fact, I think that he would be quite pissed if a "specialist" would tell him he's not.

I don't know the man personally so I may be wrong with this, but the way I see it, Merc might somehow embrace the autism theory as a way to give up on his social life and just conclude "it's not my fault, I'm simply sick". It's hard to do something when you don't want to and you spend your time telling yourself that you won't be able. This might be what's happening with Mercutio's social life. I don't think he's autist. It's sad to see him trying to make a freak of himself while he probably isn't one.

 

[dagtag]

I'm sorry, I'm not always the brightest person, I overlooked that post. I'm thinking good thoughts nonetheless.

 

[flagreen]

I'm sorry, I'm not always the brightest person..."

Well you're in the right place then because we aren't always the brightest of people either.

 

[Mercutio]

Re: Mercutio...

I don't know the man personally so I may be wrong with this, but the way I see it, Merc might somehow embrace the autism theory as a way to give up on his social life and just conclude "it's not my fault, I'm simply sick". It's hard to do something when you don't want to and you spend your time telling yourself that you won't be able. This might be what's happening with Mercutio's social life. I don't think he's autist. It's sad to see him trying to make a freak of himself while he probably isn't one.

Coug, I've never had a social life to begin with.

As I understand things, this is not a normal human condition.
I don't believe I'm autistic, but I do think I probably have asperger's syndrome or some similar condition.

Also: Hi dagtag. Welcome.
It's a little weird that someone started reading this on more-or-less their first or second visit to this site. Probably for both of us.

 

[mubs]

Somebody with cash to spare ought to try this.

 

[ddrueding]

Back on subject......and to make this a long one....


From when I was born until I was 16 I had one friend. Just one, so did he. We were lucky that we met each other, because no one else was like us (or liked us for that matter).

When I was 16 got asked out to a dance by a girl whose name I'd never known. We dated until we went off to college. Through her I met another friend, who I ended up moving in with and who got me a job. I then started dating the secretary pool. I got engaged to one of them and ended up meeting all of her friends. I broke up with her and started working at a bar, and dating another bartender. Then I started dating some friends of hers.....I am now looking at one of her friends.

I don't meet people, people meet me. Most people who do don't like me. The largest circle of (local, non-internet) friends I've had in my life could still fit on one hand.

 

[Mercutio]

Since this thread is up near the top of the list, I'd just like to say that I'll only be working 52 hours this week, and that I've already worked them all. This is the least I've worked since February of 2002.

 

[CougTek]

Félicitations Merc. Slash another few hours from that amount on a regular basis and you might stop being an insane workaholic. ;-)

 

[mubs]

And have some time to go for a walk.............

 

[blakerwry]

whatcha got planned for tomorrow merc?

I spent part of the day(besides working) doing laundry and the other part preparing a random meal out of the recipe book.

I think it's a fun idea to pick something interesting from the recipe book once a week.. adds some variety to the mealplan.

Although tomorrow it's leftovers for lunch and brauts for dinner.

 

[Mercutio]

Hardware upgrades, followed by ranting at snapstream tech support people (snapstream RECORDS just fine but I get hard locks when I try to play back anything through the snapstream interface. It REALLY pissed me off when someone told me to buy an nvidia card to fix it), followed by working on some kind of article for here, followed by more snapstream ranting.

I really want to write up something on HTPCs, but my own config isn't perfect, and that's a bit of a stopping point.

I think I have a couple of phone calls I have to make, but other than that my day is pretty light. I'll probably work in time for a bubble bath and a read through the latest "Get Fuzzy" cartoon collection.

If I get the HTPC up and running, I have five weeks of "Angel" recorded. That should keep me busy. If not, I'll turn my stereo up enough to sterilize my neighbor's dog and work my way through the stacks of CDs/SACDs/DVD-As I haven't had a chance to unwrap in the last two months.

 

[blakerwry]

my HTPC config is getting pretty good...


press any key on the wireless keyboard and the computer is up to desktop in 2 seconds... from there there is an icon for the movies or music folder(brought up in explorer)... an icon for the ATI media center, ati TV, winamp, power DVD... www.titanTV.com and firebird...


of course, you can just pull a CD out of my CD binder and pop it in and it will automatically open and play... same thing with a DVD...

you can also use the keyboard buttons to open up winamp or the web... control the volume and the play/stop/FF/RW of a video ... or put the computer back to sleep.

The computer offers me 4.1 sound for playing DVDs, watching movies or listening to music. I guess TV would only be 2.1


The only thing I need to work on is maybe an easier interface... I'm not sure if I want an easier interface like myHTPC.net or if I should stick with the winXP desktop and just keep the items I use easily available on the dsktop/pinned to the start menu.

 

[Mercutio]

Mine is basically the appliance for processing my satellite's video. Snapstream supports tuning my satellite receiver via serial cable, so I can set a schedule of recordings and just walk away. It also directly supports the ATI remote, and it can multicast recordings to other PCs in my house.
So like I said, the only thing that's wrong is, I can't watch Live TV or recordings through its really nice interface. I can watch 'em through any other player on my PC, but not snapstream. The people on snapstream's forums say its an ATI driver thing. I don't buy it. Playing back an MPEG2 file hasn't ever crashed my machine before, and still doesn't, if I'm not using Snapstream... Snapstream's own support hasn't done anything useful yet. Hence ranting.

Anyway, the PC has a VGA connection to my 32" widescreen monitor and another to my projector. My receiver does component connections to both, if I'm watching a DVD, and upconverts Svideo from my VCR. I only need two remotes. They're both RF. I ended up sticking my gear in the linen closet for my downstairs half-a-bath.

Even though I have a perfectly good wireless keyboard and the ATI remote, I do most of the control for my HTPC through VNC over 802.11A off my laptop, which is an ultralight IBM model . I need it anyway to access my list of which disc is in which position in which changer.

 

[mubs]

Puhleeeze! Let this not become an HTPC thread!

 

[Mercutio]

You're probably right. We can do that elsewhere.

 

[ddrueding]

well, let's do it elsewhere! Your config has me intrigued, Merc.....

 

[Mercutio]

I had a couple of PMs lately in which someone asked about my current state of mind.

It hasn't changed.

I don't know what's going to make the difference in my life. I've been thinking about that a lot, trying to come up with a combination of events that might give me some kind of relief. I can't think of anything that doesn't involve the persistent work of someone besides myself. And I know that's not going to happen.

Anyone else wish that you could get your brain scrubbed or something?

 

[Jake the Dog]

I don't know what's going to make the difference in my life.

YOU.

despite you already knowing this and resigning to not doing anything about it, that fact remains it's still up to you.

sorry to be harsh, but it's not good enough to talk about wanting change and then talk about that you can't do it. how much does it bother you that you say you want to change, but by inaction are showing the opposite? do you realise that if you'd apply the energy you've put into talking about change into actually taking steps to change, that you'd already be on your way?

based on what you've just said Merc, I'd strongly suggest to you that rather than focus on what needs changing or what you want out of change, or anything further to that, you really need to put your efforts into getting over the first hurdle which is telling yourself you're can't/won't initiate any change. once you take that first step, then you can work towards getting yourself mentally prepared to make a change, be it big or small. imho, these steps are necessary before you even start considering what change you should be making.

undertaking any part of the process to a more balanced and comfortable mental state is best taken one step at a time. taking it one step at a time helps to maintain focus on current goal without distractions of future goals. this allows you a better chance at getting it right first time and consequently there's less overall effort and stress as you take each step forward. as you move forward with each step, you'll gain the confidence to undertake the next step.

do you see any major flaws in the logic of what I'm suggesting to you?

 

[Mercutio]

I don't know what I can change to make even that small difference.

Everything in my life seems to be part of a house of cards. I think if I move a piece, and it's wrong, I'll be in a far worse place. I don't want to feel the way I feel. But with close to two years and absolutely zero - and sometimes negative - relief, a dozen false starts in medicines and therapies, what alternatives are left?

This is the antithesis of what you're suggesting.

Have I ever really felt differently? I don't know.

 

[ddrueding]

I don't know what I can change to make even that small difference.

Everything in my life seems to be part of a house of cards. I think if I move a piece, and it's wrong, I'll be in a far worse place. I don't want to feel the way I feel. But with close to two years and absolutely zero - and sometimes negative - relief, a dozen false starts in medicines and therapies, what alternatives are left?

This is the antithesis of what you're suggesting.

Have I ever really felt differently? I don't know.

Although I cannot say I have felt the way you feel, I can say there has been a time in my life where I agreed with everything you've said.

What did I do?

After leaving the home that I had bought with my fiancee with 2 bags of clothes, I consumed over $200,000 worth of high-end drugs and alcohol in the next year. I then proceeded to get a dozen speeding tickets (I was lucky) and ended up "couch surfing" at a woman's house who happened to be worse off than I was. That's what it took before I started to recover. Massive amounts of money, several years of my life (who knows how many more from the drugs), and destroying my records in everyone's book (credit history, resume, driving record, etc.).

That was in 1998; I'm almost back to where I started now. Try to find a better way.

 

[Mercutio]

The way I live my life is based on regimentation. It's the only way I really have to deal with things. I can describe every day of my week in exacting detail. No drugs or alcohol - If I started with those things I don't think I could ever stop.
What's the alternative to that?

 

[ddrueding]

The way I live my life is based on regimentation. It's the only way I really have to deal with things. I can describe every day of my week in exacting detail. No drugs or alcohol - If I started with those things I don't think I could ever stop.
What's the alternative to that?

Well. sounds like you've done better than me. Although "hitting bottom" was a fairly effective kick in the ass. If you were to commit to something huge, then burn some bridges behind you, you might be able to spur some motivation. It sounds like a big change may be necissary.

 

[Howell]

You're already off the radar David, maybe you could light the match.

 

[ddrueding]

You're already off the radar David, maybe you could light the match.

 

[Jake the Dog]

I don't know what I can change to make even that small difference.

Everything in my life seems to be part of a house of cards. I think if I move a piece, and it's wrong, I'll be in a far worse place. I don't want to feel the way I feel. But with close to two years and absolutely zero - and sometimes negative - relief, a dozen false starts in medicines and therapies, what alternatives are left?

yet it's been 5 months to the day that you started this thread, and afaik, you've only talked about wanting to change and given yourself every excuse not to.

you're still looking too far ahead. there are plenty of alternatives but that's not what you should be focusing on. don't try to figure out what to change. first recogonise the fact that for some time now, you've not really been prepared to give the effort another go. recognise that and you can move towards getting yourself ready to give it another go. once you're ready to go, then work out what you should change. it'll come easier to you when you're ready to tackle a change, be it big or small.

 

[Jake the Dog]

it's great to read your back with us ddrueding!

 

[bahngeist]

...undertaking any part of the process to a more balanced and comfortable mental state is best taken one step at a time. taking it one step at a time helps to maintain focus on current goal without distractions of future goals. this allows you a better chance at getting it right first time and consequently there's less overall effort and stress as you take each step forward. as you move forward with each step, you'll gain the confidence to undertake the next step...

This is very sound advice Mercutio; and to take it further:

But to do so also requires the will to effect the desired changes. My impression is that you either do not really want to change and/or have become quite comfortable in your rut of misery. The latter is very easy to do, particularly since habitual behavior/attitudes generally require a lot of will power and rigorous effort to break; and a natural tendency when faced with unexpected adversity is to fall back into old habits. But all of this is moot if one doesn’t really want to change.

I have been following this thread since it began, and find it interesting that in most respects you have a lot going for you. And the supposed cause of your current angst (the dissolution of your relationship) is something that is a fairly common part of the human condition. I am not saying this to trivialize the hurt you feel, but if you don’t put this behind you and move on it will continue to control your life. But then, have you asked yourself whether this is the true cause of your disaffection with present conditions?

And to put matters in perspective, I am familiar with what you are putting yourself through. I put up with multiple, simultaneous affairs on my wife’s part until, as matter of self-preservation, I initiated divorce proceedings (that was a year ago). A large part of why I endured her infidelities was because of a fear of the loneliness that would follow. I too have difficulties in initiating relationships, but in my case this is largely due to my having grown-up with a bad stutter. To a large part I have overcome the stutter, but not the emotional scars caused by the teasing, etc.

In short, ‘breaking the ice” with someone I am interested in causes me an almost petrifying angst. It is also a sort of self-perpetuating and spiraling sort of thing – the fear feeds on itself. Of course it would be easy to close myself off, but wallowing in misery is neither a pleasant nor healthy way of living. So I recently approached a lady who I see regularly on the bus, and who (in retrospect) hinted a mutual interest. But to do so I had to steel myself and set aside a very real and relatively uncommon angst. It is too early to say where things will go, but at least the ice is broken.

If I can do this, so can you. Which is worse: enduring a short misery and possibly being happy; or living in a relatively comfortable but enduring and unhealthy. Sort of sounds like a psychological no pain-no gain scenario doesn’t it ;-)

 

[flagreen]

bahngeist,

A very inspirational story. I take my hat off to you.

 

[e_dawg]

A large part of why I endured her infidelities was because of a fear of the loneliness that would follow.

Sorry to trivialize this by delving into demographics, but I can imagine that it would be hard to meet someone when the population of Alaska is something like 75% male and 25% female. Reminds me of grad school.

 

[Mercutio]

I have been following this thread since it began, and find it interesting that in most respects you have a lot going for you. And the supposed cause of your current angst (the dissolution of your relationship) is something that is a fairly common part of the human condition. I am not saying this to trivialize the hurt you feel, but if you don’t put this behind you and move on it will continue to control your life. But then, have you asked yourself whether this is the true cause of your disaffection with present conditions?

The shame of it is, this is not behind me. I don't feel any differently than I did three years ago. I don't know how she feels. We had a brief conversation a few days after my birthday, but my calls have been unwelcome for some time - I think at her GF's request (who is a militant-type), and I don't know the address where she now lives (probably the same reason). Nor does she reply to my emails, although when I talk to her I know she has read them.

Those are her wishes, and I go along with them. I think she still cares a lot, maybe still loves me. I hear it when I speak to her, and in some of the things she's done since... things ended.

Is she just leaving options open? I don't know. I just know how special and important she is.

Her parents speak very highly of me to anyone who asks, and I still get letters from her nieces - who call me "uncle".

Everyone always thought we were a great couple, until suddenly we weren't. I couldn't even say why. It didn't matter anyway.

A physical relationship, however weird and stunted it was, was not something I ever expected. I never have put myself in that position. I did not pursue it. But she said forever, I thought she meant it. Maybe she did. I gave everything I possibly could to do things right, because I know I'll never get another chance.

But she's never really talked to me about it. I don't know what she went through or when. What I saw was a light switch go off one morning, and the next night I had to sleep in a different bed. I stayed with her for all the hard parts - covered for her so she could be closeted, lied to relatives, encouraged her the day she chose to come out, even helped her out with dating, because I thought at the end of the day that the way she felt for me would still be a factor (before you say I pushed her away, I did make clear why I was still there).

Now everything is as over as it's probably going to get. I doubt I'll ever actually see her again, but I *still* don't know or understand what happened for her. I really think I did as much right as I could've done, but it still haunts me: Should I have known? When? Did she lie to me? For how long? Did I drive her away? Did I waste my life? Did I waste hers?

There is nothing I wouldn't give to feel the way she made me feel. But I also know that it won't happen again, and that - given the end result - it probably shouldn't've happened in the first place. I spend a lot of time wishing that I could just forget, or not feel the way I feel.

I may have "a lot going for me", but honestly, our relationship was the only thing in my life I ever really tried hard at (extra hard, for someone who is as poor at social things as me), and here I am, probably sounding like some kind of obsessed lunatic (for the record: I send her a short e-mail once a month. That's it.)

I feel like the time I had with her was the only worthwhile part of my life, and now that she doesn't need me, all I can do is wait for the end, which is pretty much what I'm doing.

If I can do this, so can you. Which is worse: enduring a short misery and possibly being happy; or living in a relatively comfortable but enduring and unhealthy. Sort of sounds like a psychological no pain-no gain scenario doesn’t it ;-)

I don't want either. I would like to be with her, if doing so wouldn't cause her distress. I would like to be able to have a conversation with a physical human being whose interest in my welfare stems neither from family interest nor the $125 check I write for their time. I would like to not feel the way I feel. I would like to let go.

 

[ddrueding]

Merc,

Thanks for sharing a certainly difficult part of your life. From where I stand, it seems you did everthing the way I would like to say I would have done it (the "right way", IMHO).

If I were to be way too bold and offer some completely unqualified analysis, it would be this:

Perhaps part of your negative focus on her is acutally an internal frustration stemming from your scarce social skills? That your great hurt for never getting her back is at least in part a fear that you won't get anyone? Perhaps I'm just blowing smoke, but I know this is how I feel after a relationship ends.

All I could suggest is to encourage more social situations, no more than 6 people per gathering. This keeps a good amount of focus and responsability on everyone; and I don't know about you, but large gatherings make me want to kill everyone.

 

[Mercutio]

Amy is a very attractive woman. Very athletic with waist-length chestnut hair. She was smart enough to get into med school and to do well there (although, I understand that she quit to be closer to her girlfriend). She put up with my faults; she fought to overcome them. She'd drink whiskey and could talk about sports. She could laugh at a crude joke or cry at a love poem. She would volunteer. She would take up causes. She'd give her last quarter to someone who needed to make a phone call.

I used to meet her between her classes with lunch, every day I could. We'd sit out under a tree. Sometimes we'd talk or sometimes we'd kiss or sometimes we'd just lean against each other, but it got us both through long, long days.

When our schedules were just too different, she'd leave me a little note, with a bit of her perfume sprayed on. She'd sit and take the time to tell me about her day, with a pen and a piece of paper.

She cared how I looked but not what I looked like, and she'd whisper naughty things in my ear to get me through the nerve-wracking social occasions.

She learned to do some of my computer work, just so we could spend more time together (plus, she's a lot better at making patch cables than I am).

... and it was like that unlike the day it wasn't.

She really is a very special person. And she, at least for a time, picked me.

David, I have no fear that I won't get anyone. I have knowledge. 100% certainty. It sounds like you tear through several relationships a year, I'm sure you're good at dealing with whatever the emotional things are that go with all this, but whatever tools we're supposed to have for this, I apparently don't. Writing in this thread is a lot like pouring iodine in a fresh wound.

 

[ddrueding]

David, I have no fear that I won't get anyone. I have knowledge. 100% certainty. It sounds like you tear through several relationships a year, I'm sure you're good at dealing with whatever the emotional things are that go with all this, but whatever tools we're supposed to have for this, I apparently don't. Writing in this thread is a lot like pouring iodine in a fresh wound.

Well, I've actually had 2 true relationships in my life. The first we got engaged our second year together and halfway though the third she called me to let me know she was leaving for Brazil with another man. I never saw her again. This was the original trigger of my crash, exacerbated by a crash in the economy and subsequent eviction from the crappy apartment I had rented. To subsidize my drinking, I became a bartender and had many women, but had no real relationships.

2 years ago I met a girl, one year ago she made me care about her, a few months ago she made me care about myself.

I hate meeting new people, and I am terrible at social situations. The people I've dated were co-workers or friend's-friend's.

 

[bahngeist]

Mercutio:

The fact is not only have I been following this thread since its inception, I have also drafted a number of replies but refrained from posting them. At that time I felt that I may not be doing much good commenting on a situation that had certain loosely analogous qualities to my own. But, on reflection, that perhaps does qualify me to contribute my pound’s worth of comment and advice.

A common thread of those unposted messages was that I find that you are doing a remarkable job of beating yourself emotionally senseless over a relationship that Amy consciously decided to bring to an end. It wasn’t as if you were blindsided, since you helped her to find and accept herself. As you admit this wasn’t entirely altruistic on your part, but in essence your actions possibly provided her permission, and quite possibly the necessary affirmation, to make a difficult transition to become fully herself.

The fact is Amy decided to end the relationship, and from the way matters sound that decision appears to be irrevocable. It also appears that she tried to break things off as cleanly as possible; and that same fondness may be why she reads the e-mails that you send to her. And chances are she doesn’t answer them because she feels the need to maintain a clear distance and not feed you false hopes -- of course this is conjecture, but the fact that she doesn’t respond should tell you something. But of course coming to accept this is purely your decision – but denying it indefinitely in the hope that you will eventually regain Amy is a romantic notion that rarely coincides with reality.

And chances are that even if you don’t express your deep feelings to her directly in your messages, you do seem to maintain contact with her family. Have you considered that she may well hear of your continuing deep feelings for her from them? If so, Amy may not be answering your e-mail messages not only to avoid feeding you false hopes, but she may well view your intensity as a threat to her present or future relationships. Of course that is also conjecture, but have you considered that your intense desire (possibly unspoken but still evident through unintentional hints to her family) may well be ensuring that you never will get back in any way with Amy? The fact is, she quite likely needs assurance that she can be comfortable with you if she is ever to have direct contact with you on even a casual basis.

At this point you may feel that I am full of it; so I should give you an indication of what qualifies me to say what I have: Amy is in one way similar to my ex-wife Tamara, an attractive woman who initiated a relationship with an intensely shy man. And like you, I was as supportive and open-minded in helping her come to terms with issues that were somewhat analogous to Amy’s. The difference though is that Tamara was drawn somewhat more to branching out to other men for affirmation, and she certainly wasn’t as forthright as Amy (Tamara had her first affair within four months of our being married). Over the six years that followed it was a rare passage of time that I didn’t have to deal with similar situations. This didn’t stop me from supporting her in the hope that she would reciprocate by stopping the hurt, but she instead followed an established and ever-deepening habit. I initiated the divorce essentially out self-preservation.

Last summer we spent two weeks together when I moved from S.D. to Calgary, she came clean (perhaps too much) and then asked if she could move with me to Juneau and live as common-law spouses. In many ways that time together was very similar to when our relationship began, and thus came full circle. I was tempted to say yes, but being aware of the likely destructive consequences said no. This past Canadian Thanksgiving she sent me an e-card greeting; I responded by asking her that if she still cared for me in any way never to contact me again. I didn’t do this out of spite, the fact is that I still care for (love?) her very deeply and any direct reminder of her knocks me into a deep funk. Our divorce was finalized 13 months ago, and over that time it was a rare day that I didn’t agonize or become intensely angry over my loss.

So how does all this relate to you Mercutio? Well there are obvious differences of course, but the underlying similarity is that both of us have deeply intense feelings for a lover/friend that we still care for deeply. And both of us have subsequently been deeply depressed. The difference though is that I have decided to let go of Tamara completely, largely because hanging-on was having a negative effect both socially and at work. Have you considered that a bleak outlook generally can’t be divorced completely when at work? And have you considered how this may affect your career in the long run?

When I related my recent story of ‘breaking the ice’ finally, one thing I may have not made clear is how this brightened my outlook in general. Of course this is but one small step, but (please excuse the phrase) it was also a giant leap. And things may not work out with this one lady, but at least now I am somewhat less hesitant to initiate that first step. And perhaps this is why I have since then been in an appreciably more positive and forward-looking frame of mind – it was a small, difficult and necessary achievement.

And the only thing that is stopping you from doing the same is yourself. Anti-depressants and counselors aren’t going to do this for you, since the only real change will come through you yourself changing. And I am not saying that you should change who you are, but make small and continuing adjustments to your attitude(s). And remember you have had a relationship, so you have learned and applied skills in establishing and maintaining a relationship. You also have the social skills honed through being a teacher and contractor. Give yourself credit, think positively, and perhaps when you are comfortable enough with yourself Amy may be comfortable enough with you to re-establish your friendship – you never know until you really try.

 

[jtr1962]

I've had one person whom I really cared about. I understand perfectly where you're coming from, Mercutio. Given my personality (I find it hard to initiate new friendships), the fact that I just don't meet many new people, and my general selectiveness (I'm really specific in the types that I like), I doubt I'll ever have a relationship again. However, I'm still living my life as best I can, and not letting it revolve around another person. Do I miss her, or think about her even twenty years after the fact? Of course I do. Do I have any regrets? Perhaps I wish I would have kept in touch with her until we were perhaps both old enough and mature enough to take up where we left off. Would I trade all the pain I've felt for never having known her? Not in a minute. She was beautiful in every sense of the word, she made me feel alive, we were able to get our feelings across without a word, often just a glance, we had a cameraderie I've never had before or since. I never told her I loved her, and she never said the same to me. It was something we both just knew and felt without the need to verbally express it. Indeed, it would have seemed silly or even insulting to have done so.

The danger we both felt was that we were too young, and might become too dependent upon each other, and not become the greater human being we each knew the other could, so we went our separate ways. At this point in my life would I want to see her again? I really can't answer that. I don't know what she is now, or if I could even love again at all. If she was the same person in appearance, and personality but with twenty years of wisdom I know I could. If she's changed a lot physically, or been made bitter by life, I honestly don't know. My only hope is that I've kept the best parts of my personality, and thanks to exercise I don't look a whole lot different than in high school, so maybe the same is true for her. Would I consider starting a whole new relationship with a new person? Probably not. I just don't want to invest years of my life to get to the point where I was with her twenty years ago. It would have to be a really special person for me to want to do that, and those type of people in this world are increasingly rare.