Intel X299: What is it good for?

ddrueding

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But at the moment even 6 cores is more than most applications can use. Single-core performance is (for most desktop users and gamers) way more important than cores 11-50. How does AMD hold up in single/double core performance?
 

LunarMist

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I don't know why the differences are so small. The Threadgripper is less than 20% faster than the old 4790K 2014 technology.
At this rate it will be 2025 or later before double the performance per core is achieved.
 

sechs

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But at the moment even 6 cores is more than most applications can use.
Do you know anybody who runs exactly one application at a time? And for anyone who might lay down for an i9 or Threadripper based system, do they not know why they're buying all of those extra cores?

If you don't have a use where throwing extra cores at it helps, then there's little reason to be buying into x299. You'd be better off with an i7 or Ryzen 7.
 

sechs

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I don't know why the differences are so small. The Threadgripper is less than 20% faster than the old 4790K 2014 technology.
At this rate it will be 2025 or later before double the performance per core is achieved.
We are approaching a physical barrier on the tricks they've been using to up IPC.

Also, Intel has been sending out a series of minor increases in performance over the last decade and consumers have been buying it. This is probably part of the reason why they seem caught off guard by AMD's new chips.
 

LunarMist

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We are approaching a physical barrier on the tricks they've been using to up IPC.

Also, Intel has been sending out a series of minor increases in performance over the last decade and consumers have been buying it. This is probably part of the reason why they seem caught off guard by AMD's new chips.

The more I think about it, the more the 10-core 7900X seems the best choice for me. It's the lowest grade, fastest i9 and has the 4-channel RAM with the 44 PCIe lanes. The minimum AMD for the 4-channel and 64 PCIe lanes would be the 12-core 1920X. The $200 cost difference is not much for a single enthusiast, but obviously it matters to high volume builders.
 

sechs

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The more I think about it, the more the 10-core 7900X seems the best choice for me. It's the lowest grade, fastest i9 and has the 4-channel RAM with the 44 PCIe lanes. The minimum AMD for the 4-channel and 64 PCIe lanes would be the 12-core 1920X. The $200 cost difference is not much for a single enthusiast, but obviously it matters to high volume builders.
Once again, sounding like it's for people with more money than sense.

If you're going to throw down a thousand dollars, why not get the most for it?
 

LunarMist

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Once again, sounding like it's for people with more money than sense.

If you're going to throw down a thousand dollars, why not get the most for it?

Yeah, I did buy 6x8TB hard drives for a thousand. Now I have no money for the CPUs. :lol:
I just don't see that the AMD is that much better. Ultimately it will depend on the affect of increasing cores on the O/C abilities without excessive cooling measures.
Frankly I'd go with a bit lower grade CPUs if they clocked a bit better, but I want quad channel RAM and a decent number of PCIe lanes.
 

sechs

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I just don't see that the AMD is that much better. Ultimately it will depend on the affect of increasing cores on the O/C abilities without excessive cooling measures.
Frankly I'd go with a bit lower grade CPUs if they clocked a bit better, but I want quad channel RAM and a decent number of PCIe lanes.
Even if AMD isn't better -- just cheaper -- that still makes it the better choice.

If you were looking at a 10-core i9, why not get a 12-core Threadripper for less?
 

LunarMist

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Even if AMD isn't better -- just cheaper -- that still makes it the better choice.

If you were looking at a 10-core i9, why not get a 12-core Threadripper for less?

I have not had good experiences with AMD, so I'd like to see the products on the market for 6 months before even considering them. I know there are a bunch of bloggers and goofballs on the internet getting all worked up about the competition aspect in various benchmarks, but the difference in cost of the CPU for a computer I'd use 3 years is trivial compared to storage, monitors, and other components. It's really about what will provide the best single thread performance and at least equal with multi threads.
 

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Are you planning to run Windows 7 on it? FWIW, W7 does not run so well on my work ThinkPad 470s, which is Skylake based.
 

CougTek

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In case you want more details on the upcoming Core i9 models.

For what it's worth, I wouldn't buy anything Intel offers on the X299 platform. I have no confidence at all regarding the reliability of that platform. Most current motherboard designs seem to suffer from over-heating of the VRM and Intel chose to link the cores to the heatspreader with cheap thermal paste, so the CPU often throttles under load even at stock frequency.

This is a rushed product Intel scrambled in a hurry in order to have an answer against AMD's Threadripper. I won't bite. Their server offering (xeon Scallable) has its merits, altought I think it will suffer in the low-to-midrange market, but the Core i9... nope. Not to my eyes.
 
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LunarMist

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Are you planning to run Windows 7 on it? FWIW, W7 does not run so well on my work ThinkPad 470s, which is Skylake based.

No. I just assumed that Windows 7 and 8.1 were forbidden by MS-Intel on the 2017 and later CPUs. One of the reasons I did not upgrade this summer was the Windows 10 OS nightmare. I'm procrastinating until next year unless Canon/Nikon/Sony software stops working before then.
 

Newtun

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In case you want more details on the upcoming Core i9 models.

For what it's worth, I wouldn't buy anything Intel offers on the X299 platform. I have no confidence at all regarding the reliability of that platform. Most current motherboard designs seem to suffer from over-heating of the VRM and Intel chose to link the cores to the heatspreader with cheap thermal paste, so the CPU often throttles under load even at stock frequency.

This is a rushed product Intel scrambled in a hurry in order to have an answer against AMD's Threadripper. I won't bite. Their server offering (xeon Scallable) has its merits, altought I think it will suffer in the low-to-midrange market, but the Core i9... nope. Not to my eyes.
Weren't the Threadripper motherboard designs kind of "rushed", too? Any feel for their reliability?
 

LunarMist

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In case you want more details on the upcoming Core i9 models.

For what it's worth, I wouldn't buy anything Intel offers on the X299 platform. I have no confidence at all regarding the reliability of that platform. Most current motherboard designs seem to suffer from over-heating of the VRM and Intel chose to link the cores to the heatspreader with cheap thermal paste, so the CPU often throttles under load even at stock frequency.

This is a rushed product Intel scrambled in a hurry in order to have an answer against AMD's Threadripper. I won't bite. Their server offering (xeon Scallable) has its merits, altought I think it will suffer in the low-to-midrange market, but the Core i9... nope. Not to my eyes.

There is most always an early adopter pain and suffering on the mainboards. I like to buy a v.2 where possible. If the CPUs are crap that is a different issue.
When is the next process shrink version due or is the next one a new architecture?
 

CougTek

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Weren't the Threadripper motherboard designs kind of "rushed", too? Any feel for their reliability?

I cannot speak about the motherboards because I haven't read much about those yet, since they aren't available. The Threadripper CPU though, are at the very least better thermally connected to their heatspreader than their Core i9 opponents. AMD used solder to connect the cores to the heatspreader. Combine that to the fact that the heat comes from 4 different chips, all connected to the four corners of the heatspreader, making for a well spread heat area. I don't see how heat dissipation could become a problem on that design, even if its rated at 180W. That's one least concerned.

Doesn't mean it will beat Intel in benchmarks, doesn't mean it will be a better bang for the buck, performance-wise, but if I had to buy a higher-end computer and I wanted it to last five years at least, I would buy an AMD-based system this Fall.
 

LunarMist

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I cannot speak about the motherboards because I haven't read much about those yet, since they aren't available. The Threadripper CPU though, are at the very least better thermally connected to their heatspreader than their Core i9 opponents. AMD used solder to connect the cores to the heatspreader. Combine that to the fact that the heat comes from 4 different chips, all connected to the four corners of the heatspreader, making for a well spread heat area. I don't see how heat dissipation could become a problem on that design, even if its rated at 180W. That's one least concerned.

Doesn't mean it will beat Intel in benchmarks, doesn't mean it will be a better bang for the buck, performance-wise, but if I had to buy a higher-end computer and I wanted it to last five years at least, I would buy an AMD-based system this Fall.

That giant CPU package doesn't seem to leave much room for the RAM and cooler. I suppose Noctuas will make a good one for it.
 

sechs

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It's really about what will provide the best single thread performance and at least equal with multi threads.
My feeling is that you don't even need an HEDT machine.

Then again, when have you ever made a purchasing decision based on the reasonable statements made here? ;-)
 

sechs

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I just assumed that Windows 7 and 8.1 were forbidden by MS-Intel on the 2017 and later CPUs.
LOL. Just MS.

They aren't supporting Ryzen on the older OSes, either.

If you get a new processor, you must go with Win10.
 

LunarMist

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My feeling is that you don't even need an HEDT machine.

Then again, when have you ever made a purchasing decision based on the reasonable statements made here? ;-)

HEDT? Some are more reasonable than others. :)

The most reasonable choice in this case it to wait until the boards and hardware mature.
 

Handruin

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When Intel came out with X99 motherboards, many of those were rushed and very unstable. In time they'll get better but now with competition.
 

sechs

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At first looks, it seems that the designers of the x399 boards have learned the lessons of x299. They also aren't hamstrung by having to support two different architectures.

I was excited to see the announcement of the 8-core Threadripper 1900x. This will be good for folks like me who are more interested in memory and I/O than cores.
 

ddrueding

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Considering AMD couldn't provide a working system to someone they knew would be doing a live demo on stage, with a rep on stage no less, it makes me question the reliability of their platform.

[video=youtube_share;twkZz5WyVJs]https://youtu.be/twkZz5WyVJs[/video]
 

LunarMist

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At first looks, it seems that the designers of the x399 boards have learned the lessons of x299. They also aren't hamstrung by having to support two different architectures.

I was excited to see the announcement of the 8-core Threadripper 1900x. This will be good for folks like me who are more interested in memory and I/O than cores.

Maybe it will overclock better or have some other benefit.
 

ddrueding

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I think that you're an Intel fanboy.

I linked a video from a major content provider that was supposed to be a positive message for AMD that happened to have something that concerns me. And you respond with a video that exactly sells your message from....who?

I really want AMD to succeed, and will likely have a Threadripper system running before nearly everyone here, but declaring AMD the winner of this round is a significant oversimplification.
 

ddrueding

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You haven't defended your position, and are repeatedly using inflammatory language. Try being less of a dick and I'll be more inclined to have a conversation.
 

LunarMist

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Why are you guys such bleeding hearts for Intel?

I had to find some definitions for that term, which are a bit confusing. Poli Sci was never my area.

My thinking is usually to choose the larger, better known company when I don't know much about the industry.
For example I know of Synology and QNAP. There are other brands like Thecus and Noontec, but I would not buy them even if they are cheaper or better in some performance category.
It doesn't mean that I have the bleeding hearts for the Synology and QNAP. For all I know maybe they use child slaves or prisoners to assemble the products.
The reality is that so many companies have deplorable business and human resource policies that most likely nothing would be acceptable to buy if one looked hard enough. :(
 

ddrueding

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[video=youtube_share;9voQqU73-Mg]https://youtu.be/9voQqU73-Mg[/video]

1920X (and supporting parts) and Vega Frontier Liquid ordered. Should be here in a week or so. Still haven't ordered an i9, but will once they are in stock again. Any particular tests people want to see?
 

LunarMist

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1920X (and supporting parts) and Vega Frontier Liquid ordered. Should be here in a week or so. Still haven't ordered an i9, but will once they are in stock again. Any particular tests people want to see?

So it needs liquid cooling? I was hoping there would be a big Nocturnal HSF that would be enough for most purposes.
 

ddrueding

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All the current CPUs and GPUs from all the manufacturers throttle their performance if temps get to a threshold. While I suspect that a really good air cooler in a really well ventilated case would be good enough, I want to remove that variable from my benchmarks. So the GPU has a factory waterblock and radiator, and the CPU will be running with a 2x 140mm AIO self-contained liquid cooler. From what I've read, the VRM on the X399 motherboards can be an issue as well, so that will have lots of active air on it anyway.
 

LunarMist

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All the current CPUs and GPUs from all the manufacturers throttle their performance if temps get to a threshold. While I suspect that a really good air cooler in a really well ventilated case would be good enough, I want to remove that variable from my benchmarks. So the GPU has a factory waterblock and radiator, and the CPU will be running with a 2x 140mm AIO self-contained liquid cooler. From what I've read, the VRM on the X399 motherboards can be an issue as well, so that will have lots of active air on it anyway.

Is the radiator fan controlled by temperature? The problem is that I want a computer to be quiet the 98% of the time it is idling, but then speed up when cooling is needed.
I also don't want the leaks. What do you use to absorb the liquid when the system ruptures?
 

ddrueding

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I've never had an AIO leak in any way. I've had the pump fail and the system crash, but it didn't break anything. Some of the coolers support controlling the pump speed via USB interface and software, but I don't want software controlling my cooling system. The pump isn't a significant source of noise, but the fans are. Those can go to headers on the motherboard and controlled via the BIOS.
 
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