Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
Howso? You just don't give up your drives. The Windows licenses are tied to the motherboard, so the only thing you might be out is some small cost for a new place to put Windows.
Ryzen
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Howso? You just don't give up your drives. The Windows licenses are tied to the motherboard, so the only thing you might be out is some small cost for a new place to put Windows.
jtr1962
Storage? I am Storage!
I was thinking the same thing. And the old Windows license could be used by the buyer.
Also, it isn't hard to wipe drives clean for security purposes, especially if they're SSDs. You might be able to read some data on an HDD which was wiped clean, but really, that requires specialized equipment. It's not worth the trouble/expense, unless Lunar works for something like the IMF. ASAIF, there's no similar route to recover data from erased SSDs. When the cells are erased, they're erased. There are no traces of what was there before.
Also, it isn't hard to wipe drives clean for security purposes, especially if they're SSDs. You might be able to read some data on an HDD which was wiped clean, but really, that requires specialized equipment. It's not worth the trouble/expense, unless Lunar works for something like the IMF. ASAIF, there's no similar route to recover data from erased SSDs. When the cells are erased, they're erased. There are no traces of what was there before.
Maybe you all think I am paranoid. What if somebody gets your used computer and commits heinious crimes?
I can use a type of Cougtek process for old and dead drives.
And I don't work at the International Monetary Fund.
I can use a type of Cougtek process for old and dead drives.
And I don't work at the International Monetary Fund.
jtr1962
Storage? I am Storage!
Actually the link was for Impossible Mission Force, the fictional organization Tom Cruise's character works for in the Mission: Impossible movies.
As for your used PC being used for crimes, wouldn't law enforcement IP trace it to wherever it's being used? That's like selling a car and worrying if you'll be charged with a crime if the new owner uses it as a getaway car after a mass shooting.
I just hate unnecessary e-waste. All those PCs and phones people discard could still be used by people in third world countries who have nothing.
As for your used PC being used for crimes, wouldn't law enforcement IP trace it to wherever it's being used? That's like selling a car and worrying if you'll be charged with a crime if the new owner uses it as a getaway car after a mass shooting.
I just hate unnecessary e-waste. All those PCs and phones people discard could still be used by people in third world countries who have nothing.
sedrosken
Florida Man
When someone uses your old equipment for crimes, they are the ones considered liable, not you. They figure out who actually committed the crime.
jtr1962
Storage? I am Storage!
Hey, I'm only an inch taller than Cruise.Do you mean Steven Hill or Peter Graves? That little twerp Cruise would have had his ass kicked in five minutes.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
Ok but do you have weirdly aligned front teeth and scientology super powers?
(My partner's dad is an OT 3 and has apparently met Tom Cruise a couple times)
jtr1962
Storage? I am Storage!
I had to look at early pictures of him to see the teeth. He apparently had it fixed. My teeth aren't perfectly aligned, but they're not even close to that bad.
I put scientology almost in the same camp as MAGA. Did Tom Cruise try to push the scientology stuff on your partner's dad, or is that stuff he only does to people he knows better? I read scientology screwed up his marriage to Katie Holmes, not that the marriage wasn't a farce to begin with.
Now we learn that Ryzens are also poorly built and will not be launched as planned. 
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sedrosken
Florida Man
Honestly, props to AMD for having the guts to actually delay a product that isn't up to their specification. They could probably release anything that doesn't literally cook itself and the tech bros would be all over it even still.
I want more information about the QE and CAPAs. The little info that has been released indicates there is a serious quality issue. It seems that either the testing equipment and/or procedures were inadequate to detect the defects as they should have been designed to do, and furthermore that QM systems failed to identify the inadequate testing, so some defective product was released to market.
They are probably being as open as the lawyers will allow, which is better than some companies. Withdrawing all of the possibly defective products is the best thing to do now while the costs are probably only millions rather than billions.
I avoid the U-Tube, so am not sure who the tech bros are.
They are probably being as open as the lawyers will allow, which is better than some companies. Withdrawing all of the possibly defective products is the best thing to do now while the costs are probably only millions rather than billions.
I avoid the U-Tube, so am not sure who the tech bros are.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
Partner's dad married someone who was already a member of the CoS. They live in Clearwater now. Becoming an OT3 costs a low seven figure amount of money, but apparently, like being a Mason in Victorian England, members help each other a lot once they get to that level.
Back on Topic: someone in Italy got and was able to benchmark a retail 9900X vs a 7800X3D and apparently the X3D is still faster in gaming benchmarks. I'm not sure if this is actually surprising, given the differences in architecture.
Makes sense AMD wants to hold the release given all the negative press on Intel right now. They need to come clean out of the gates to really put pressure on Intel and get the sales.
Honestly the delay isn't that long anyway. I can't imagine they'd be tweaking silicone changes in the added two to three weeks so my guess is that this are software changes in the microcontroller to ensure stability or they're giving the motherboard partners time to test and qual new bios changes.
Honestly the delay isn't that long anyway. I can't imagine they'd be tweaking silicone changes in the added two to three weeks so my guess is that this are software changes in the microcontroller to ensure stability or they're giving the motherboard partners time to test and qual new bios changes.
I'm really hoping it is testing issue and they are not derating the product like iNtel had to do. We need to see the benchmarkers for the commerical CPUs. 16% is minimal already and worse performance makes it less valuable for those with Zen 4 already.
I can appreciate that this new generation is a bit lackluster for your needs. I agree it's plausible they are making some tweaks that could impact performance so they need to get those in before too many chips are in the wild and then everyone sees the performance dip.
Not that a loss of performance is by any means good, but better now than to defraud the consumers after purchasing their products.
Not that a loss of performance is by any means good, but better now than to defraud the consumers after purchasing their products.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
Skipping a generation isn't the end of the world, LM. You are on a contemporary architecture. You can just keep your $700-ish and get a Zen 6-whatever. If the numbers aren't there, if it's only a 12% bump over what you have now or something similarly underwhelming, you're only going to be out an extra second or two of processing time per image. Seconds add up, sure, but all the time you aren't futzing around with this stuff is time you could be taking pictures of birds or woodchucks or whatever.
If the AMD is a dog, then I'll get iNtel Arrowhead lake if the chipsets are adequate to support the slots and NVMe at the same time. I've been stuck on AMD due to the symmetrical properties supported by Win 10.
Photo opportunity costs are getting ridiculous and will be coming to an end in the next few years. Relatively simple stuff is now $1000 per day and the better places are $2K or more per day. Airfares are outrageous, like one trip being $10K for business and $2500 for economy vs. $6600 and $1600 a couple of years ago.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
Supposedly August 8th for the little Zen 5s and August 15th for the interesting ones. I'm holding back to see what issues there are at launch but I'm looking forward to whatever we get.
LM, ORD to Nairobi business class is $1000 almost year round. Where the hell are you flying? Ulaanbaatar?
LM, ORD to Nairobi business class is $1000 almost year round. Where the hell are you flying? Ulaanbaatar?
ddrueding
Fixture
Not Ryzen, but close enough? Probably no one here needs one of these, but I can imagine a few who would want it.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
The Threadripper release for a given line usually hits in Q1 of the next year after an updated desktop release, I think.
A Chinese retailer seems to have leaked USD MSRPs for the Zen 5s: $500 for a 9950x, $400 for the 9900X, $300 for the 9700x and $230 for the 9600x. Yes, please.
Has anyone used this kind of cooler for AM5? https://noctua.at/en/nh-l12sx77/specification
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
My first thought was that cooler looked like a Scythe Big Shuriken, which I have used before for ITX systems.
Apparently neither Lunar Lake nor Strix Point support socketed RAM. You buy those products with all the RAM they'll ever have.
Apparently neither Lunar Lake nor Strix Point support socketed RAM. You buy those products with all the RAM they'll ever have.
I'm trying to fit it in the HTPC case. The GPU is rated at 115mm high and just below the lid by a few mm (if you recall I had to use a U-connector for the 8-pin power). It is not clear where that 115mm is measured from and I'm pretty sure that the CPU starts higher up, so I was considering 100 mm or less HSF height to be safe and not be too near the lid. I would probably put the fan on top blowing itself downwards, but either way should work.
But those chipsets are for mobiles, right? I suppose it will also be bad for future "NUC" type computers, but won't desktops and servers continue with the DDR part 5 for several years? My last two laptoops had no RAM and they were earlier iNtel generations 11 and 13.
But those chipsets are for mobiles, right? I suppose it will also be bad for future "NUC" type computers, but won't desktops and servers continue with the DDR part 5 for several years? My last two laptoops had no RAM and they were earlier iNtel generations 11 and 13.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
IIRC AM5 is the same physical dimension as the AM4 socket, so you may have more cooling options than you think. Thermalright has several low-profile HSFs that might be of interest.
It's an unappealing development IMO. It signals that the current socketed interfaces are inadequate, but I think the lessons tech will take from this are that they shouldn't bother with upgradeable RAM when they can just build it in to an SoC and have higher priced SKUs up front and we'll generally lose something that is truly important about standardized hardware. I'm not willing to give that up, especially sinceI had to search high and low to get a laptop with two DIMM slots and two m.2 connectors last time I bought a decent one.
Asus makes one but I don't see it in stock anywhere. I view ROG products with pretty deep suspicion, as it seems like an excuse to overcharge. True to form, the MSRP on this stupid thing is $600.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
So the Brain Slug was full of it. Who would have guessed?
I was thinking that Noctuna would be the choice if it is adequate, since I like their fans. I doubt any short form factor coolers with one fan would handle 230W well. Maybe I would reduce power a little via BIOS.
$600 is completely stupid and it only has one 16x and one 1x slots.
It looks like a B650M broad is the only reasonable option, but I'm not spending more than $150 or 200 for one. If I use the 7950X and extra 32GB DDR5-6000 that I already have, only the board, cooler, and PSU are needed for the offsite hardware upgrade. If I keep the 7950X here, I could get a 9900X as another CPU for a third system. I assume the 9900X would be much better than the 7950X when the cooling is limited.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
I actually have to look in to low-profile cooling on my Threadripper as well. It was originally in a 2U chassis of what I'm just going to call unknown provenance that had a bunch of too-loud to use in a home high RPM fans in it. I'm planning to re-home it to that same chassis. I'm giving serious consideration to liquid cooling the damned thing, probably by cutting a hole through the top or back of the chassis and attaching a 360+ mm radiator. The Noctua NHU14 I have now is too tall to fit in that chassis, but I could also do custom loop cooling and stick some massive radiator to the top of my rack.
My case of choice for the time being is a Be Silent 801. I'm looking at getting a new DH15, but I'm also thinking about a Deepcool Assassin IV, if only because I like the fan attachment system and the option to use a third fan. But then, the Be Silent does support 420mm radiators as well. Maybe the forthcoming 9950X is the build where I finally give liquid a try. The Arctic Freezer III 420 is more or less the same price as everyone's favorite HSF anyway.
My case of choice for the time being is a Be Silent 801. I'm looking at getting a new DH15, but I'm also thinking about a Deepcool Assassin IV, if only because I like the fan attachment system and the option to use a third fan. But then, the Be Silent does support 420mm radiators as well. Maybe the forthcoming 9950X is the build where I finally give liquid a try. The Arctic Freezer III 420 is more or less the same price as everyone's favorite HSF anyway.
I have been testing the 7950X at various power leveles and core counts in BIOS. 16/32 at full power is just barely over the temp limiting on the NH-D15. Based on the Nocturnal NSPR ratings, the G2 is 228 compared to 183 for the original. Even it doesn't handle 25% more power, I expect the G2 should be more than adequate for the 9950X at CRT. IDK about your house without adequate AC. I hope to have it all installed and tested the weekend after the release if they are out yet.
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Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
Remember that the 9900x is 10% faster on 87% of the power. It's a meaningful upgrade even if it isn't the one a Zen 4 owner is going to get thrilled about..
Wouldn't it be better to run a 9950X at 120W than the 9900X at 120W?
How are you measuring the power and efficiency, peak power in W or Wh to perform a certain amount of calculations?
I found surprisingly little difference on the 7950X at 120W compared to 170W settings, and just less at 95W.
Unless the CPU has a crappy design the single threads should not use too much power and should not change too much with power.
I have to play with the curves shaper to see what can be done with the 9950X at max power. All-core performance should be better. The Zen 5 and 5c are probably more useful in the laptops and in the EPYC servers.
I'm getting a strong feeling that AMD mongers are playing all these Mickey Mouse games to justify the lameness of the Zen 5 in the 9000 series after 2 years of waiting. I was hoping AMD would reach late 2023 M3 single threaded levels, but I guess they are still years behind APPLE also. Since INtel sucks of late I suppose AMD has less pressure and desktop CPus are not the most important to them.
How are you measuring the power and efficiency, peak power in W or Wh to perform a certain amount of calculations?
I found surprisingly little difference on the 7950X at 120W compared to 170W settings, and just less at 95W.
Unless the CPU has a crappy design the single threads should not use too much power and should not change too much with power.
I have to play with the curves shaper to see what can be done with the 9950X at max power. All-core performance should be better. The Zen 5 and 5c are probably more useful in the laptops and in the EPYC servers.
I'm getting a strong feeling that AMD mongers are playing all these Mickey Mouse games to justify the lameness of the Zen 5 in the 9000 series after 2 years of waiting. I was hoping AMD would reach late 2023 M3 single threaded levels, but I guess they are still years behind APPLE also. Since INtel sucks of late I suppose AMD has less pressure and desktop CPus are not the most important to them.
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Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
I'm just looking at the specs. The 7900x is a 120W part and the 9700x is a 105W part. It'd take actual studies to figure out what those CPUs are doing from moment to moment and at peak demand, but I think we can broadly agree that AMD can label things correctly.
Nearly all of the performance gains of Apple's SoC approach over what x86-based systems do comes from the massive bandwidth of RAM integrated on the SoC and not from the CPU or GPU itself, but with the side effect that Apple also can't account for gains from using any better GPUs that might be available, nor ever add any RAM. Apple also tends to ship products with generally less than ideal cooling solutions and that this will have an impact on the longevity of their devices. It's really a question of one size fits some versus the wider ability to put together a mainstream system that can be customized for the workload it needs.
It seems that the Ryzen 9000 is more of a "tock" than a "tick" in terms of performance. A lot of the improvements on the desktop level are incidental and relate mostly to efficiencies that come from moving to a smaller manufacturing process. Most of AMD's more recent products have benefitted from HUGE changes in manufacturing but IIRC they're just going from the previously smallest process node to the newest smallest process node (4nm to 3nm, I think?) and I suspect that's where most of the gains come in. A lot of people who are looking at Zen 5 will be buying in to AM5 as a platform, which AMD has committed to using through 2027. It's not just getting a Zen 5 CPU right now, but the potential to get Zen 6 or Zen 7 later.
AMD is going from 5nm to 4nm on the 7000 to 9000 series (the Zen 4 mobile CPUs/APUs got 4nm earlier). Supposedly APPLE paid for priority on the 3nm process for quite a while. I guess we will get 3nm desktops on Zen Part 6. I'm not sure that 5 to 4nm and the other minor differences make a big difference in most applications. AMD should have a whole new desktop processor for 2025, if they can do it or care. I'm sure the competition is higher with the laptops and servers.
I'm committed to getting the 9950X no matter what for biological meetings.
I'm committed to getting the 9950X no matter what for biological meetings.