Something Random

Handruin

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I'll just stick to my supply of vodka if I need a boozy night. I'm not consuming any sanitizer.
 

jtr1962

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What the heck? It's poisonous.
You have to be careful and look at the ingredients. Drinking it straight out of the container probably isn't a good idea regardless. You should salt it first to precipitate out the solids, then run it through a coffee filter. You'll still have a lot junk in at that point, especially fragrance which could be anything. If you can distill it, great. The end result will be mostly water and alcohol, basically something like 120 to 140 proof vodka.

The bottom line is it's cheap alcohol either for those who can't afford anything better, or don't have access to regular alcohol (i.e. minors). I tried it once a long time ago and almost puked. If hand sanitizer were the last source of alcohol left on the planet I might drink it, but first I would precipitate out the solids, and then distill it.

Oh, and you have to make sure the hand sanitizer you intend to drink has ethyl alcohol. Some use isopropyl alcohol, which is way more toxic and can cause blindness.
 

jtr1962

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Sounds like it might be easier to distill or brew your own for all that effort. (wine/spirits/beer isn't that hard to make yourself).
I'm actually doing that. Just started it as a new hobby. I got a distiller on eBay, although you don't need one if you're making wine, beer, or anything else with a low alcohol content. I made two batches so far. Sugar, tomato paste, and yeast. Let ferment about two weeks, then distill out the alcohol. I can use the distilled alcohol to spike drinks, make my own spirits, etc. I'll eventually try fancier stuff like wine, maybe even beer.

The distiller will also come in handy if our water supply ever gets screwed up.
 

Stereodude

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You have to be careful and look at the ingredients. Drinking it straight out of the container probably isn't a good idea regardless. You should salt it first to precipitate out the solids, then run it through a coffee filter. You'll still have a lot junk in at that point, especially fragrance which could be anything. If you can distill it, great. The end result will be mostly water and alcohol, basically something like 120 to 140 proof vodka.

The bottom line is it's cheap alcohol either for those who can't afford anything better, or don't have access to regular alcohol (i.e. minors). I tried it once a long time ago and almost puked. If hand sanitizer were the last source of alcohol left on the planet I might drink it, but first I would precipitate out the solids, and then distill it.
That sounds like a lot of trouble and hassle, and I wonder if it's really much, if any cheaper, than bottom shelf booze. Plus, good luck buying any hand sanitizer now.
 

jtr1962

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That sounds like a lot of trouble and hassle, and I wonder if it's really much, if any cheaper, than bottom shelf booze. Plus, good luck buying any hand sanitizer now.
It's a lot cheaper if all you're after is getting crocked, and not taste. For example, the cheapest I've seen a 1.75 liter bottle of Everclear 190 go for is about $38. That contains about 1.67 liters of pure ethanol, so the cost is roughly $23 per liter. When it was available, you could get two 2 liter bottles of hand sanitizer from Amazon for $13.75. At 70% ethanol, this is 2.8 liters of pure ethanol, so the cost is under $5 per liter. Granted, you have to do some work to get it out without being poisoned, but one thing poor people generally have in abundance is time. About the cheapest non-hand sanitizer option I've found for ethanol was https://ecogreenindustries.com/product/5-gallons-of-food-grade-200-proof-ethanol/. At $229 for 5 gallons/19 liters, this comes to $12 per liter (plus shipping). Of course, $229 plus shipping would be a lot for a poor person to spend in one shot.

Then again, if you don't mind waiting a few weeks you can make your own. 10 pounds of sugar goes for about $5. The other raw materials (yeast, tomato paste) are about another $1. You can get about maybe 2.75 liters of pure ethanol per 10 pounds of sugar, so the net cost comes out to perhaps $2 to $2.25 per liter. And unlike hand sanitizer you don't have to worry about being poisoned. Again, it's work and time, but poor people have more time than money.
 
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Stereodude

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Someone can easily get 1.75L bottles of booze for under $20 in Michigan. Sure it doesn't have the same alcohol % content of Everclear 190, but people might actually want to drink it.
 

jtr1962

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Someone can easily get 1.75L bottles of booze for under $20 in Michigan. Sure it doesn't have the same alcohol % content of Everclear 190, but people might actually want to drink it.
Nobody is going to drink 190 proof liquor. The idea is you dilute it with something else. The 1.75 liter bottle of Everclear might be equivalent to 2 bottles of cheap <$20 booze.
 

Chewy509

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I don't know what pricing is like in the US, but here it's possible to get a 4L Tawny Port for under AU$20 (1 Gallon for ~$US13), some (non-drinkable) wines are even cheaper (750ml bottle for AU$3.50 when on a sale).

Home brew kit ingredients (about AU$20-AU$25 depending on what your brewing), will produce up to 23L of beer... Brewing your own is certainly cost effective...

While I've heard stories of people converting other liquids to booze, I've never had a first hand or known someone with a first hand experience in doing it...
 

Stereodude

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The fear of a run is usually enough to cause the run. It's a self fulfilling prophesy.

Heck, I'll be real frank. I bought my R9 3950X system when I did partly because I wanted to have something fast to play with should we all get quarantined for some weeks due to the Coronavirus. I bought the 12TB HDD drives in it because I had the money and concerns over the supply of them and the price over the next few months as the China effects shake out (even though they're made in Thailand).
 

jtr1962

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I don't know what pricing is like in the US, but here it's possible to get a 4L Tawny Port for under AU$20 (1 Gallon for ~$US13), some (non-drinkable) wines are even cheaper (750ml bottle for AU$3.50 when on a sale).
Similar prices for cheap wines in the US. Keep in mind I'm going strictly by total alcohol content here. By that standard, even cheap wines don't give much bang for the buck.

Home brew kit ingredients (about AU$20-AU$25 depending on what your brewing), will produce up to 23L of beer... Brewing your own is certainly cost effective...
Beer is probably one of the harder things to make, at least to make something drinkable.

While I've heard stories of people converting other liquids to booze, I've never had a first hand or known someone with a first hand experience in doing it...
Most of the people who do this are a combination of broke and just interested in getting drunk, not enjoying what they drink. The hand sanitizer thing actually started in prisons. Obviously hand sanitizer compares poorly to a decent wine or beer or liquor. Given that you can make your own for less, I personally can't see bothering with hand sanitizer, not when you have to do a decent amount of work to get it drinkable. The hand sanitizer I bought is strictly for its intended purpose.
 

sedrosken

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I rushed my own plans a little and got my NVME SSD because I was concerned that by the time I was ready to "properly" get it in mid-summer supply would be low and prices much higher. I'm not having another situation like where I got my GPU where I got it less than a month before the market miraculously recovered and overpaid by 2-3x. Linus is right, even if at times I find him obnoxious, if you know you need something and physically have the cash to get it right now, do it. You won't have the same chance for probably the rest of the year.

We can't get hand sanitizer to save our lives out here either, but I wash my hands religiously so I think I'll be fine. First case in my state out in Lexington though, about 45 mins away from me, so that's a little too close for comfort. I've got a few bottles of 91% isopropanol and don't particularly care about drying out my hands if worst comes to worst. Then again, if I end up with COVID-19, I've probably got the immune system to fight it. Not that I really want to have it, since hospital costs are expensive and such, but it's a small comfort that I probably won't die from it.

I feel kind of lost when you guys discuss drinking, I'm of age to do it now and I still don't -- I just don't see the point myself. It's too expensive, messes with your head, and apparently most of it doesn't even taste good. Not judging, just confused. As for other essentials like TP, I'm not sure to what extent we stock up -- my cousins visit Costco every once in a while but personally I never gave it much thought -- I spend too much time at work to really care.
 
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Handruin

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I feel kind of lost when you guys discuss drinking, I'm of age to do it now and I still don't -- I just don't see the point myself. It's too expensive, messes with your head, and apparently most of it doesn't even taste good. Not judging, just confused. As for other essentials like TP, I'm not sure to what extent we stock up -- my cousins visit Costco every once in a while but personally I never gave it much thought -- I spend too much time at work to really care.
There is no need to feel pressured, I didn't drink until around age 41. I tried a few sips here and there and ended with a similar opinion as you. There are times in social gatherings where it adds value. There are also a large amount of craft brewery places that have cropped up in my state and I was introduced to a few styles via a friend that finally tasted good. We have (arguably) one of the better craft brewery's in country that I'm lucky I can get to within an hour's drive.

My interest is never to get drunk no matter the booze. I have no interest in that. My enjoyment is the people I get to share it with and trying the interesting flavors.

I have found that my pallet does not like hoppy beers so once that was figured out I know what to stay away from and what to try.

My advice to you is stay true to what you believe but don't be so rigid that you're not open to trying new things in the right environment. If you're in a social setting just play it cool if you do not want to drink and don't make it a big deal.
 

jtr1962

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I feel kind of lost when you guys discuss drinking, I'm of age to do it now and I still don't -- I just don't see the point myself. It's too expensive, messes with your head, and apparently most of it doesn't even taste good. Not judging, just confused. As for other essentials like TP, I'm not sure to what extent we stock up -- my cousins visit Costco every once in a while but personally I never gave it much thought -- I spend too much time at work to really care.
Being from an Italian family I had small amounts of wine as early as late grade school. That probably was a good thing as it killed any mystique associated with drinking. Drinking age was 18 when I was young but I never got involved in the drinking scene in college. Because most of the kids there had never had alcohol until then they were like animals let out of a cage. On weekends I remember lots of people there getting drunk, puking in their dorms, etc. Complete turn off to me. Drinking to me was something done socially in moderation at the time. I might occasionally drink enough to get drunk at a family event but at the same time I could go weeks without drinking.

I enjoy the taste of various alcoholic beverages more than getting drunk. For alcoholics it's the opposite. Most of what I drink is beers and wines. I mostly stay away from the hard stuff, although I like anisette. Same advice as Doug. Be open to trying new things, but don't feel pressured to do something just because your friends are.
 

Stereodude

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I feel kind of lost when you guys discuss drinking, I'm of age to do it now and I still don't -- I just don't see the point myself. It's too expensive, messes with your head, and apparently most of it doesn't even taste good. Not judging, just confused...
Some alcohol is quite tasty. I've never been a big drinker, but I enjoy an adult beverage from time to time. I generally don't like hoppy beers or beers with a high IBU. But there's so many different alcoholic beverages out there to choose from there pretty much something for everyone.

Still, I wouldn't pressure someone to drink. If it's not your thing, steer clear and find something that is.
 

Handruin

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I really like ginger and that got me into ginger beers (which have no alcohol). I'm not sure if that's anyone's thing but I enjoyed doing a tasting of a variety of those from time to time. Fever-Tree ginger beer is one I come back to often. I also like Regatta, Bundaberg, and Barrits. I do keep a small supply of Gosling's in the house mainly for a less-expensive mixer. I won't usually drink those by themselves but I absolutely would with the first three I mentioned.
 

Stereodude

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AMD's drivers for their graphics cards never cease to amaze me. I put my old R380 in my E5-2687W v2 since I pulled the GTX 1080 and put it in the R9-3950X. I get just a blank screen in Davinci Resolve when I start it (E5-2687W v2). It is a graphics card driver issue. Updating the drivers now to the latest from the 2 month old drivers I was using to see if that fixes it.

Edit: It fixed it.
 

Handruin

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That's not just a Rubio thing, people have been complaining about this for a while. I'd be fine with stopping the DST change.
 

Stereodude

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That's not just a Rubio thing, people have been complaining about this for a while. I'd be fine with stopping the DST change.
Yeah, I know. I've been complaining for a while also. I wasn't aware that politicians were actually pushing legislation to end it though.
 

jtr1962

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The EU already voted to scrap DST by 2021. Countries would have the option of being either permanently on standard time or DST. In my opinion we should adopt standard time since it's, well, standard. If people want to start their day earlier or later, let the school or work place adjust the working hours. Either way though, this silly practice of changing clocks twice a year has to go.
 

sedrosken

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Considering we have areas here in the US within areas within areas within areas that do/do not observe DST (think the various Native American reservations, specifically Arizona is what I'm thinking about with this remark) it's really time something was done about it, I think. I'm ready to uncheck the "automatically change for DST" checkbox on my boxen.
 

Handruin

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Yeah it's not a good forge when they're having fun with misspelling the market. Hopefully I can time my retirement right when we aren't having a downturn like this. Maybe it'll spring back after the summer if things stabilize a bit with coronavirus.
 

jtr1962

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Yeah it's not a good forge when they're having fun with misspelling the market. Hopefully I can time my retirement right when we aren't having a downturn like this. Maybe it'll spring back after the summer if things stabilize a bit with coronavirus.
Don't bet on it. It took about 5 years to recover from the losses in 2008. This might be worse.
 

Stereodude

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Don't bet on it. It took about 5 years to recover from the losses in 2008. This might be worse.
It should come back much faster because there's not an underlying economic problem. It's a biological problem.

The markets don't like uncertainty and there's a lot of that right now.
 

snowhiker

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Welcome to 1967. At least that's the last year AZ used DST.
Considering we have areas here in the US within areas within areas within areas that do/do not observe DST (think the various Native American reservations, specifically Arizona is what I'm thinking about with this remark) it's really time something was done about it, I think. I'm ready to uncheck the "automatically change for DST" checkbox on my boxen.
Yep. There are some goofy time zone areas in the northeast part of AZ, specifically within the Hopi and Navajo Nations.
 

sedrosken

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Debian, or: How I learned to stop worrying and love systemd.

It's no secret that I'm not a big fan of systemd -- not its concept, and not its perceived mission statement, that being to absorb all the little helper daemons and utilities in the GNU/Linux userland until there's nothing left. A common joke is that the Linux kernel itself will soon be assimilated into it by the name of systemd-kerneld. I especially don't like the actually kinda far-reaching consequences of its adoption -- oversimplified here but the problem with systemd, the big one, is that systemd ties itself pretty heavily to the Linux kernel and the dependencies some software has on systemd (mostly through logind) means that software is much less portable to other UNIX-likes.

But since upgrading to Ryzen and my NVME SSD, I tried to set up Devuan ASCII (Stretch) to be able to dist-upgrade to Beowulf (Buster) since its net installer isn't available yet, and it's got problems, from my guess related to the ancient kernel they're using -- init hangs after unlocking my encrypted volume. I'm sure I could fix this by chrooting in with other media and installing a newer kernel from backports but instead on a whim I tried plain old Debian 10.3 and I'm actually blown away by how... competent its systemd implementation is. It's not overly intrusive, it just does its job and gets out of the way, which was not my experience on Arch years back where I had race-condition problems. First thing I did was rip out NetworkManager and let systemd-networkd do its job, and my first impressions are that things are much improved. I like systemctl's verb-noun system as opposed to SysV/OpenRC's noun/verb system as it makes tab completion much easier, but I'm also deeply conflicted. I don't like this on an ideological level, but on a level where I'm actually using it, it's a lot easier and much faster.

I intended for this to be a temporary measure until Devuan gets a Beowulf net installer image available (which should be any day now) since I still vastly prefer OpenRC's approach as an init and service supervisor and only an init and service supervisor, but the more I use this the more comfortable it's getting. I can definitely see this getting to be like Pulseaudio where I started off not liking it at all and then, once I used it because I had to, I started to like it.

TL;DR: I'm trying to figure out if I'm abandoning my principles for convenience or if I'm going to keep willingly making things harder for myself than they need to be to satisfy my impotent nerd-rage.

Edit: Found this interesting little guide and I'm starting to think it's a process for next week. Obviously I won't just be installing sysvinit, I'll likely be bringing in OpenRC and all my myriad little daemons, but it should work out.
 
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sedrosken

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Burnt my candle at both ends a bit and just went for it -- it's remarkably quick and painless. The hardest part, no exaggeration, was realizing eudev uses the old network interface naming convention and so my network interface, which was enp5s0, was now eth0.
 

Will Rickards

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It should come back much faster because there's not an underlying economic problem. It's a biological problem.
Do you still feel the same today?

Yes, it is a biological problem but it has far reaching implications. There were underlying economic issues, whether in the corporate credit market or the fact that many people haven't really recovered from the 2008 crisis in terms of equal employment and financial footing. And it will make any weakness very apparent. So I think this will be worse and longer. There is no easy financial fix. This isn't a liquidity problem. Propping up the banks is not the answer, though some of that may need to happen as businesses fail to pay back their loans. This will be very much a consumer demand problem. But giving people money is not the answer, though some of that may need to happen as they lose their jobs. So having a fundamentally not market problem, means you can't fix the market itself quickly. And I think consumer demand will be suppressed for quite some time. On the other hand, money will keep flowing into the market as 401K contributions.

So while by the summer we might be out of the biological problem with a likely recurrence in the fall, the fallout effects of the loss of consumer demand in specifically those service industries that have popped up to replace previously lost employment will be devastating.
 

Handruin

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Historically we're on track for a Republican downturn. The large majority of past Republican presidents usually get the US into an economic downturn at some point. I don't believe we will be out of this by the summer but I wouldn't complain if things get considerably better.
  • The Great Depression: (Aug 1929 – Mar 1933) (R)
  • The Roosevelt Recession: (May 1937 - June 1938) (R)
  • The Post-War Recession: (November 1948 - October 1949) (D)
  • The Post-Korean War Recession: (July 1953 - May 1954) (R)
  • The Eisenhower Recession: (August 1957 - April 1958) (R)
  • The "Rolling Adjustment" Recession: (April 1960 - February 1961) (R)
  • The Nixon Recession: (December 1969 - November 1970) (R)
  • The Oil Crisis Recession: (November 1973 - March 1975) (R)
  • The Energy Crisis Recession: (January 1980 - July 1980) (D)
  • The Iran/Energy Crisis Recession: (July 1981 - November 1982) (R)
  • The Gulf War Recession: (July 1990 - March 1991) (R)
  • The 9/11 Recession: (March 2001 - November 2001) (R)
  • The Great Recession: 2007 (R)
  • The corona recession: (R)
 

snowhiker

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Yes, once the curve gets flattened and the uncertainly is minimized things will recover fairly quickly.
I also believe this is the case. Like the TP shortage now. Once people realize they overreacted and stripped the stores they will stop buying like crazy, supplies will return and things will stabilize.
 

Stereodude

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I just got to replace a faulty light switch for the lights in my basement when the switch failed. Thankfully I had one on hand without requiring a trip to the store. I had an extra switch from when I pulled it and replaced it with an electronic timer for my bathroom exhaust fan. That switch was already a more robust better than builder's grade switch. Home improvement joys! ;)
 

Handruin

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I've gone through and swapped out almost all wall switches and wall receptacles throughout my house. I still have a few more to do but it takes a bunch of time. I wanted to get rid of the nasty faded brown to make the house feel more updated.
 

Stereodude

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Since I'm working from home for the foreseeable future I guess I have no excuse for not getting the house clean and working on some of my longstanding projects. I've been trying to get started and have on a few things, but it's hard to not be lazy.
 
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