Something Random

jtr1962

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Avg cost of car ownership is $10k per year? Where does that number come from? I've never come close to that number or know of anyone else that has.
It's actually worse than that now:


The average monthly cost of owning a car has surpassed $1,000.

The figures are from AAA. A car, even a decent used one, would easily cost me over $10K. Just the insurance alone would be $5K+, given that I'd be considered a new driver. Remember you have insurance, repairs, maintenance, fuel, tickets, interest on car loans (almost nobody can afford to buy a car with cash these days). If you're in a city and don't have a driveway, add in the cost of parking, which can exceed $500 a month in NYC.

For what vehicles cost I just don't see the value. If a person's time might be valued at, say $25/hour (the average wage), that car costing them $1,000 a month would have to save 40+ hours over taking public transit/walking/biking just to break even. I'd walk 10 miles each way to work before I'd pay that kind of money. Point of fact I kind of did in the past. I used to walk both ways to the subway station each day (6 miles total) to save the double car fare. Not an issue now because double-fare zones were eliminated when we went to Metrocards.
Unfortunately in their situation a new battery replacement is far, far more costly compared to the value of the car so he isn't going to replace it. It's just too old with too many miles to bother.
The vast majority of vehicles, whether ICE or EV, aren't worth putting any money into once they hit a quarter million miles. Your friend more than got his money's worth with his two Priuses.

With battery life you need to go by averages. I'm sure there are exceptions like Sed mentioned, but by and large EV batteries are lasting hundreds of thousands of miles. Some car manufacturers are saying they may well outlast the vehicle. Remember once a battery is no longer useful in a EV because the capacity drops under, say, 75% of new, it can have decades in a second life as grid storage. Eventually it'll need to be recycled of course, but by the time we have large numbers of dead EV batteries the ecosystem for that will be in place.
 

Handruin

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It's actually worse than that now:


The average monthly cost of owning a car has surpassed $1,000.

The figures are from AAA. A car, even a decent used one, would easily cost me over $10K. Just the insurance alone would be $5K+, given that I'd be considered a new driver. Remember you have insurance, repairs, maintenance, fuel, tickets, interest on car loans (almost nobody can afford to buy a car with cash these days). If you're in a city and don't have a driveway, add in the cost of parking, which can exceed $500 a month in NYC.

For what vehicles cost I just don't see the value. If a person's time might be valued at, say $25/hour (the average wage), that car costing them $1,000 a month would have to save 40+ hours over taking public transit/walking/biking just to break even. I'd walk 10 miles each way to work before I'd pay that kind of money. Point of fact I kind of did in the past. I used to walk both ways to the subway station each day (6 miles total) to save the double car fare. Not an issue now because double-fare zones were eliminated when we went to Metrocards.

The vast majority of vehicles, whether ICE or EV, aren't worth putting any money into once they hit a quarter million miles. Your friend more than got his money's worth with his two Priuses.

With battery life you need to go by averages. I'm sure there are exceptions like Sed mentioned, but by and large EV batteries are lasting hundreds of thousands of miles. Some car manufacturers are saying they may well outlast the vehicle. Remember once a battery is no longer useful in a EV because the capacity drops under, say, 75% of new, it can have decades in a second life as grid storage. Eventually it'll need to be recycled of course, but by the time we have large numbers of dead EV batteries the ecosystem for that will be in place.

I see, I didn't realize that number was including the car payment. Also, given the huge range of prices for cars, a median vs avg might be more useful as I'm sure super expensive vehicles make the avg seem quite larger for the common folk buying cars, etc. I totally get all those other items being factors in monthly/annual costs but didn't know the $10K amount was including the loan/lease until you clarified.

I get when you're in a large city that walking to places makes a lot of sense but also, walking 6-10 miles a day is a huge cost in other ways. The avg healthy person walks maybe 3 mph, so you're spending 2-4 hours a day just walking. Very few can afford doing that for personal reasons.

I think we're in total agreement with the batteries and hybrid. My point is aligned with yours; I was making the point to Sed that this was an example where the battery was quite reliable in more than one Prius and long-lasting beyond the useful life of the car...and it's not even a LFP chemistry which I believe would be superior in safety and reliability. I agree they got their money's worth out of their car.

I do believe current battery tech and chemistries are reliable and I have been following LFP's for potential home use for whole-house backups. I think this chemistry is a great fit for home use and could easily last 15+ years even with a decent amount of cycling.
 

jtr1962

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Also, given the huge range of prices for cars, a median vs avg might be more useful as I'm sure super expensive vehicles make the avg seem quite larger for the common folk buying cars, etc.
Yes, I'd like to see median versus average myself. My brother actually gets classic car insurance on one of his vehicles, which comes to a few hundred a year, and does all of his repairs. His cars are obviously long paid for. I'd be shocked if his older cars cost him more than $2,000 a year total. Median versus average is a better indicator. Sort of like how average savings obscure the fact a lot of 60 year olds have no savings because you have a small percentage who are worth high 6 or 7 figures.
I get when you're in a large city that walking to places makes a lot of sense but also, walking 6-10 miles a day is a huge cost in other ways. The avg healthy person walks maybe 3 mph, so you're spending 2-4 hours a day just walking. Very few can afford doing that for personal reasons.
To be fair if you're going to travel that many miles under your own steam a bike or e-bike makes far more sense than walking. I walked to/from the subway simply because there would have been no safe place to store my bike while I was at work. I could have ridden the bike all 8.5 miles to work, and avoided the subway also, but not when I had to be there at 8 AM. I just can't ride that early in the day. Generally, walking is mostly viable for trips of a mile or less. I walk about 4 to 5 mph, which is somewhat faster than average.
I think we're in total agreement with the batteries and hybrid. My point is aligned with yours; I was making the point to Sed that this was an example where the battery was quite reliable in more than one Prius and long-lasting beyond the useful life of the car...and it's not even a LFP chemistry which I believe would be superior in safety and reliability. I agree they got their money's worth out of their car.

I do believe current battery tech and chemistries are reliable and I have been following LFP's for potential home use for whole-house backups. I think this chemistry is a great fit for home use and could easily last 15+ years even with a decent amount of cycling.
Regarding LFP lifetime, this thread I started on CPF might interest you:


For home use at more constant temperatures than vehicle use we're probably looking at 25+ years to 80% capacity. For vehicles you still might get 20 calendar years, depending upon how much cycling you do. Yes, LFP is virtually fireproof. Shorts are about the only thing which can start a fire but any decent BMS will protect against that. Sodium-ion promises to be even better, with 5K+ cycle life, better low-temperature performance. No idea of the calendar life yet, but being that it's more stable than any flavor of lithium, probably decades.
 

jtr1962

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That's fine. Honestly, you're not in much of position to afford a new vehicle soon anyway. Let other people get the kinks worked out. That's one reason I'm not an early adopter of much stuff, unless it's fairly inexpensive.
 

Mercutio

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My partner's birthday is July 4th and this is the first year I get to spend her actual day-of birthday with her. It borders on incomprehensible how much this particular birthday sucks.

Indiana doesn't allow alcohol sales on holidays. Most bars and venues for adults will likewise be closed just due to local ordinances.
Every park, marina and waterway will be full of people already. This actually also impacts just trying to go anywhere on the holiday since I live directly next to national park access to Lake Michigan.
Any sort of concert that might be happening will be all about the patriotism. This is very much not a pretty sight in Indiana unless you're a big fan of Lee Greenwood and think The Handmaid's Tale is an instruction manual.
Chicago, at least the fun parts, is a goddamned madhouse on every national holiday.
Most people's plans look something like "Parade, cookout and then go see or let off fireworks." and zero of those things hold any appeal for her.

So instead, I'm taking her on a romantic trip to my uncle's currently unoccupied farmhouse in scenic central Illinois, which is surrounded for miles in all directions by corn and soybeans with nary a firework to be seen nor Sousa march to be heard. The big draw is the combination of zero stars and zero stripes + central air conditioning.
 

jtr1962

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I saw the Macy's fireworks a few times in person. That was worthwhile. Couldn't care less about parades or BBQs though.

An unoccupied farmhouse in the middle of nowhere? Sounds like a premise for a grade B slasher flick. Watch out for Jason and his cohorts when you're out there.

I get it that some birthdays just suck. Christmas and New Year's also come to mind. Being born on November 30, I'm not far off Thanksgiving, although thankfully it's mathematically impossible for my birthday to end up on the day itself.

What do people born on February 29 do? Celebrate once every four years? In a way that's good. You could say with complete honestly you're only 25 when you hit your 100th birthday.

Have a good time! Same to your partner.
 

Mercutio

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An unoccupied farmhouse in the middle of nowhere? Sounds like a premise for a grade B slasher flick. Watch out for Jason and his cohorts when you're out there.

This is big city thinking. The miles and miles of corn are very real, but it's too early in the year for it to be scary corn. Any adult can see clear to the horizon. Corn isn't scary until it's seven feet tall and the only thing you can navigate by is the direction of the sun. My dad used to punish me when I was little by driving me out into the country and telling me to walk home. Illinois has a road every mile and I was well aware that I could cut through fields to dramatically shorten my trip, but getting lost in a field is a very real thing when everything for miles looks the same and you aren't tall enough to see over the crop after about mid-June, so following the roads was a WAY better idea. THAT is scary corn.

Slashers in your yard? Probably not very scary. Being 24 miles away from a poorly staffed rural hospital and 75 miles from an actual trauma center? Fucking terrifying.
 

jtr1962

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Nowadays at least everyone has phones with GPS if they have to navigate a corn field. We grew corn once. I was surprised how big the plants get.

Being that far from medical help IS scary. I was thankful when my mother was alive that we are within two miles of multiple hospitals with trauma centers. I suspect a lot of the reason for the much lower life expectancy in rural red states is the fact lots of people probably die before they can get to a hospital.

My punishments as a kid were usually limited to beatings, although by middle school what my mother could dish out had us all laughing. Once when I complained the house was too cold my parents made me sleep outside. On a night when it was single digits. I didn't complain after that.

My father's mother had it worse. She said if she didn't have dinner ready when her father came home, she got a beating with a cat 'o nine tails soaked in salt water. Old school punishment.
 
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sedrosken

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My plan for the holidays (and my birthday, later this month) are to make no noise and pretend I don't exist, in a manner of speaking. I prefer not acknowledging them a lot of the time.

Honestly for me the worst part of country living was the glacial internet connection. 3mbps down and 768kbps up were the best I got for years. But I suppose we were only about 10 miles from the nearest town/hospital.
 

LunarMist

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There are plenty of causes of death, some more prevalent in rural vs. city areas. I'm sure it is far more likely to be injuured or killed in a vehicular crash on the roads near the corn fields, than by a "bogeyman" in the corn itself.
 

LunarMist

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That's true. The highest death rate by far is on two-lane country roads.
And that's why you want a Yukon/Tahoe, Expediation, Sequoia, Armando, or something similar with a frame, not some flimsy death trap FWD POS.
Just stay in the vehicle and don't get out by the corn fields. :)
 

jtr1962

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And that's why you want a Yukon/Tahoe, Expediation, Sequoia, Armando, or something similar with a frame, not some flimsy death trap FWD POS.
Just stay in the vehicle and don't get out by the corn fields. :)
Five-point harness and roll cage. Don't need a lot of mass. Indy cars are the safest vehicles in terms of preventing crash deaths because of these features. They should be standard in all vehicles. Indy cars hit concrete walls at 200 mph and the driver walks away.

I never even go to rural areas for lots of reasons. Honestly not much there that appeals to me. I hate bugs for starters. The politics in these places are polar opposite of mine. As Merc said, The Handmaid's Tale is an instruction manual.
 

ddrueding

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My long-term plan is an aluminium sailboat away from everyone. The one cause for concern is medical care. The last time I did the TransPac race (San Francisco to Hawaii) I was injured about halfway. Enough that it would have been a medivac if one was possible. But in the middle of the Pacific they just strap you down and medicate you until you get there.
 

LunarMist

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Five-point harness and roll cage. Don't need a lot of mass. Indy cars are the safest vehicles in terms of preventing crash deaths because of these features. They should be standard in all vehicles. Indy cars hit concrete walls at 200 mph and the driver walks away.

I never even go to rural areas for lots of reasons. Honestly not much there that appeals to me. I hate bugs for starters. The politics in these places are polar opposite of mine. As Merc said, The Handmaid's Tale is an instruction manual.
Don't be silly. It's not practical to drive a race car with a roll cage around the public roads.
Of course the city dwellers often dislike the countryside just like country folk often dislike the large cities.
 

jtr1962

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Don't be silly. It's not practical to drive a race car with a roll cage around the public roads.
It may not be practical but people are already driving the kinds of vehicles you mentioned on country roads. Despite that, the death rate is still very high. These roads are just dangerous, no matter what you're driving.
Of course the city dwellers often dislike the countryside just like country folk often dislike the large cities.
Well, there are things I don't like about the city, but they're far outnumbered by the things I do like. I would like for us to at least maintain the streets in some semblance of good condition. 90% of the streets I ride on can be used by NASA to test lunar rovers. They're THAT bad.



Both those reports are nearly a decade old. It's only gotten worse since then.
 

sedrosken

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Not to derail but the Gateron Oil King switches I ordered were, instead, cleverly packaged Keychron Browns. I'd be impressed at the ingenuity of repackaging them in the Gateron box and resealing it if I weren't given to unyielding rage over having been had. I will of course be requesting a return. I'm not sure if I even want to get genuine oil king switches now, if this is how it is buying from any given source. I'm almost given to the idea of getting another batch of Kailh Box Navies. At least I know I like those.
 

sedrosken

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My keyboard. I'd wanted to replace the Gateron Reds with Oil Kings as they're a heavier linear switch -- I accidentally actuate the wrong key all the time with these lighter Reds.
 

Handruin

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Not to derail but the Gateron Oil King switches I ordered were, instead, cleverly packaged Keychron Browns. I'd be impressed at the ingenuity of repackaging them in the Gateron box and resealing it if I weren't given to unyielding rage over having been had. I will of course be requesting a return. I'm not sure if I even want to get genuine oil king switches now, if this is how it is buying from any given source. I'm almost given to the idea of getting another batch of Kailh Box Navies. At least I know I like those.

Where did you order them from that they sent imposters? Why would one bad seller make the switches undesirable now vs Kailh, I don't understand? I've had good luck getting supplies from Kinetic Labs (currently out of stock).
 

sedrosken

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That (currently out of stock) is a big indicator -- I bought on amazon and thankfully the return process is easy. It seems now if you're not buying there you're paying ridiculous sums for key switches. Whereas I already had a known good supplier for the Kailhs -- I got those from kbdfans years ago.
 
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