Something Random

ddrueding

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...And all these exoticars? Exactly where is someone supposed to drive something which goes 200 mph? Why even bother buying such a car at all given the reality of low speed limits, traffic cops, and road congestion?

Where I will be living soon, 40-70mph acceleration is very important. Lots of 2-lane roads that go on for many miles. Lots of farm equipment and other trucks driving ~45mph.

Not to mention freeways with left-turn lanes and stop signs instead of on-ramps. Those make 0-60 times quite relevant.
 

timwhit

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Where I will be living soon, 40-70mph acceleration is very important. Lots of 2-lane roads that go on for many miles. Lots of farm equipment and other trucks driving ~45mph.

Not to mention freeways with left-turn lanes and stop signs instead of on-ramps. Those make 0-60 times quite relevant.

<sarcasm>Yeah, a car that can do 0-60 in 4 seconds is really necessary for that.</sarcasm>

You don't need a fast car to pass on 2 lane roads, you need a competent, experienced driver.
 

ddrueding

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4 seconds? No, but 9+ would make the wait for a sufficiently large hole in traffic much longer.

Same with passing; the size of the gap in oncoming traffic is not determined by the capabilities of the driver.
 

jtr1962

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Where I will be living soon, 40-70mph acceleration is very important. Lots of 2-lane roads that go on for many miles. Lots of farm equipment and other trucks driving ~45mph.

Not to mention freeways with left-turn lanes and stop signs instead of on-ramps. Those make 0-60 times quite relevant.
Granted, but how do the cars with 200 mph top speeds I mentioned fit in here? Do you ever need that, or to get to 100 mph in 4 seconds? And from everything I've read about roads and driving, plus seen in real life, I would think 10 second 0-60 times are more than adequate. Or put another way, I've yet to see any situation where you would need to do it any quicker than 10 seconds for safety or any other reason. One time I mistakenly got on an expressway on my bicycle. As you can imagine, my power-to-weight ratio is probably worse than a loaded 18-wheeler, yet my acceleration was more than adequate to merge (I fortunately had a large van cutting the wind for me-most of my power went straight into acceleration, not overcoming drag, so I was able to reach ~60 mph before I got off at the next exit). I didn't time anything, but I'd say it easily took me a minute to go from 30 to 60 mph. My mom is one of the slowest drivers going. I've yet to see her hit 60 in anything much under about 25 seconds, yet she always safely merges.

I tend to think the perceived need for rapid acceleration doesn't match the actual need for it. Even a lot of the actual need has more to do with poor, discourteous driving habits. People could slow a little or change lanes to allow merging traffic to get in. They did it years ago when most cars just didn't have the power to get into small gaps. All these stupidly powerful cars are doing is creating worse drivers, especially on local streets. I'm all for having something to limit acceleration to about 0.1g (2 mph/sec), on local city streets anyway. Too many morons here drive their cars like go-carts. They didn't when the cars were slower. I'm surprised given all the things the government has regulated which didn't need regulating, nobody ever thought about limiting power-to-weight ratios instead of mpg regulations. I've heard talk of it for motorcycles, but never for autos. Besides the obvious energy efficiency, it would encourage better car design. When you have a limited amount of power to work with, the only way to get better high-speed acceleration is to use less of your power overcoming drag. Net result-better aerodynamics, lower rolling resistance tires. A regulation like this also more or less fixes the relative size of the power plant for a given vehicle size. Funny thing is if we finally all had autonomous cars, I doubt they would need much more than 30 or 40 HP under any conditions. The inherent predictability of a system like that would mean no need to accelerate suddenly into tiny gaps. Instead, everyone would be bragging about their trip times, not their HP: "Hey, my car got me from New York to Boston in 1 hour, 45 minutes." "Oh yeah, well, we did it 3 minutes less-the car decided it was safe to go 150 mph on I-95 that day instead of the usual 140 mph".
 

jtr1962

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Bringing this thread back to a bit of randomness (can't stay on any one topic too long or it isn't something random anymore ;) )-I wonder if I'm capable of actually feeling cold any more. I just came back from a 45 minute ride wearing just a sweater and windbreaker. It was 40°F. Normally I'd come home at least a little chilly. I was actually sweating like a pig. I think there's still some residual heat in my body both from summer and the record hot October.
 

e_dawg

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My mom is one of the slowest drivers going. I've yet to see her hit 60 in anything much under about 25 seconds, yet she always safely merges.

Oh man... that's the type of driver that causes safety PROBLEMS for everyone. Everyone's going along at a good clip, and then there's this slow driver going 20 mph slower than everyone else forces everyone to slam on the brakes and change lanes to get around the slowpoke. You think she always safely merges, but you have no idea the chaos and chain reactions of corrective measures it causes upstream. It's only because of the collective ability of everyone to manage this significant disruption that there are no accidents.

I tend to think the perceived need for rapid acceleration doesn't match the actual need for it. Even a lot of the actual need has more to do with poor, discourteous driving habits. People could slow a little or change lanes to allow merging traffic to get in.

At the end of the day, the need is not as great as we make it out to be, but there is a difference between "need" and "want". You can choose to give up all control of your driving destiny and only merge when the odd courteous person lets you in or merge anyways without sufficient power and cause safety problems like slow drivers / slow cars often do... or, you can get a car that has enough power to merge or change lanes any time there is an opening.

They did it years ago when most cars just didn't have the power to get into small gaps.

Yes, but that was years ago. You had to drive that way. Now most cars have lots more power. The bar has been raised. The driving style has changed to match. If you choose to get a car that has below average power/weight ratio or drive like a granny, that is a personal choice and a conscious decision to accept that you will have difficulty merging with this car.
 

ddrueding

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I'll see if I can get a picture of the intersection I have in mind (from one of my clients). Hwy 101 north of Prunedale, left turn across 2 oncoming lanes, uphill. Avg speed? ~65mph. Unfortunately, you only have a couple hundred yards of visibility. Even if there was a big enough hole in the traffic to accelerate slowly, you wouldn't know it. And to top it off, as soon as you cross those lanes, you have a merge lane about a hundred yards long before you are in the fast lane. I might have to wait until I get a wider lens.
 

ddrueding

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Re: being cold.

I don't get cold easily, I can go the whole year without wearing a sweater or coat. Olga, from Moscow, always comments that the weather is too hot or too cold, and is always adjusting her wardrobe accordingly.

My theory is this:

If you are from a place with extreme temperatures, you need to be aware of the weather. If not you might die. Me? Raised here? It really doesn't matter what you wear, your health isn't at risk. So I don't even pay attention; my body doesn't notice of my nose or ears get cold.
 

jtr1962

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Regarding power, merging, etc.:

We can go back and forth all day with this stuff. At the end of the day the real problem isn't power, lack of power, courtesy, lack of courtesy, etc. It's the human being behind the wheel. The sooner that is completely removed from the equation, the sooner we can design the rest of the car in such a manner as to not compensate for the driver's flaws. And before anyone tells me we shouldn't do that, 50,000 dead and 2 million injured each year tells me that human beings can't handle driving collectively. That's really the only statistic that matters. These are not acceptable numbers. Indeed, they never were. Granted, until fairly recently it wasn't technologically possible to take the driver out of the equation. It will be in the not too distant future, and in my mind it couldn't be soon enough.

Handruin said:
I think it's fun to go fast in a car. I don't have any other excuse.
Absolutely. And in a train, or on a bike, or even on foot. No arguing that. I've hit 65 mph on my bicycle, a speed that is entirely outside the realm of sanity on such a conveyance, just because it was fun. In retrospect, the only reason I think back fondly on that time is because nothing unfortunate happened. I think it would be even more fun to go faster than legally or humanely possible in a self-driven car, with the knowledge that it was highly unlikely I would get killed doing so. Fast is fun. Getting killed or injured aren't.

Dave,

The picture you paint is one of poor road design. Examples abound. In NJ they're famous for having exits right after entrances. There's no reason to design roads so you have poor visibility or not enough room for even the slowest vehicle to reach cruising speed. Seriously, write to the DOT about the problems you mentioned. They'll study them, and hopefully find a fix.
 

jtr1962

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Honestly, looking at that intersection I'm really surprised there isn't a traffic light. What might work would be a light with a sensor which only stops traffic on the main road whenever there's cross traffic, and then only when the timing cycle tells it to. They probably already know that, but it's not in the budget.

On the temperature thing, yes, if you live in a place where the temperature rarely gets low or high enough to be dangerous you probably wouldn't be as aware of it. While it rarely gets hot enough here to cause problems (I would guess 100°F or more is dangerous, any lower just uncomfortable, although humidity is also a factor), it does get cold enough to be life-threatening in late fall through early spring. Basically, any freezing temperature can be potentially deadly.
 

Bozo

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I just noticed that I went over 2000 post! Wow :-D

Bartender...drinks all around.

Bozo :joker:
 

Howell

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Less than a year after leaving my parent's house, I ended up on the street in Berkeley. Why? I hadn't been flexible enough in my thinking, or willing to compromise enough to make it work. Solution? I became more flexible, adjusted my standards, got a shower at the local shelter, and got a job inventorying Bic pens at an OfficeMax in Oakland (graveyard shifts).

I am curious why you didn't go home for a time. Logistics,no jobs in the area? Self imposed independence? Parental imposed independence?
 

Howell

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Random.

And no selling. It was a "give."

x2/4600, 2GB RAM, 250GB Seagate drive. Just some spare parts I had.

Was this someone you met OTA (outside the apartment) or was this someone living in your closet Laslo style? j/k

I'm glad you found the opportunity.
 

ddrueding

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I am curious why you didn't go home for a time. Logistics,no jobs in the area? Self imposed independence? Parental imposed independence?

A little bit of all of them. If I had gone to college I would have received some support, but not enough to live off. I really didn't want to go to school after what my HS was like.
 

jtr1962

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I am curious why you didn't go home for a time. Logistics,no jobs in the area? Self imposed independence? Parental imposed independence?
I wondered about that myself. So long as I'm not high on drugs, not drunk most of the time, don't bring over females for sex, and do a reasonable amount of chores, I'm welcome to stay at home for as long as I want. One of my cousins was home until his mid or late 40s, and only left because his job moved to Ohio. While it's one thing for parents to nudge their progeny in the direction of independence, I don't feel in this day and age of ridiculous housing costs and low-paying jobs they should force the issue. Unless of course their adult child trashes the house on a regular basis.

That mess is child's play compared to my parents house. You can still see the floor and some of that space is boxes. I'm with you though. I can't stand to visit.
It looks somewhat better now. One of these days I'll upload some pictures to Photobucket of before, during, and after the cleanup (one reason I wasn't here for six months after Dad died). There's still boxes everywhere, but at least there's no "trash" piles on the floor.
 

ddrueding

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I wondered about that myself. So long as I'm not high on drugs, not drunk most of the time, don't bring over females for sex, and do a reasonable amount of chores, I'm welcome to stay at home for as long as I want. One of my cousins was home until his mid or late 40s, and only left because his job moved to Ohio. While it's one thing for parents to nudge their progeny in the direction of independence, I don't feel in this day and age of ridiculous housing costs and low-paying jobs they should force the issue. Unless of course their adult child trashes the house on a regular basis.

Mine weren't quite as understanding. The rule was simple and very black and white. If I did what they wanted me to do then they would do what they could (not much). If I decided to go against their advice, I was on my own. After our "talk" about college, I was out on my own in less than 2 weeks. We didn't talk for a year and a half after I left, by then I was making more than both of them combined.
 

ddrueding

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Did you later go back and improve your education?

Not in any formal sense. I graduated high school with a 0.7GPA (lowest technically possible at the time, a point of misguided pride). In 11th and 12th grade I was maintaining a part-time job doing circuit design, analysis and prototyping. I switched my focus to computers when I moved out, and have had MCSEs and A+s at times, all self-taught. I found that I learn in a different way and at a different speed than others, and grew impatient in a group setting.
 

jtr1962

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I found that I learn in a different way and at a different speed than others, and grew impatient in a group setting.
Same here. The only thing that made school tolerable for me was proximity to large numbers of the opposite sex. This was more true in high school than college. In college for the most part there weren't really any who I found attractive.

Mine weren't quite as understanding. The rule was simple and very black and white. If I did what they wanted me to do then they would do what they could (not much). If I decided to go against their advice, I was on my own. After our "talk" about college, I was out on my own in less than 2 weeks. We didn't talk for a year and a half after I left, by then I was making more than both of them combined.
I won't say it's understanding on the part of my parents so much as cultural background. Both being from Italian families, and in the case of my mom having immigrant parents, it was expected that you take care of your own no matter how dysfunctional they are. One of my great aunts still had her son and her grandson living with her, and was doing most of the caretaking, when she was 90. The grandson had "issues" to put it politely. He weighed about 500 pounds and was mildly schizophrenic. The son had been married, separated, had severe arthritis, and in general was just never particularly good at earning a living.

Believe me, my parents are anything but understanding, especially my late father. I've often compared him, only half-exaggerating, to Darth Vader. He could be that domineering at times, and also abusive to my mom. My mom, perhaps because of living with my dad for 46 years, can be argumentative just for it's own sake. Neither one has been easy to live with, so it's really a matter of choosing the lesser of two evils by staying at home. Truth is, I probably wouldn't want to live by myself, but lacking a significant other that would be the reality were I to leave home. And as I mentioned, there's just no way I could make ends meet. My brother has been living on borrowed money ever since he left. If he ever loses his job, he'll probably be right back with us as I doubt could get another with similar pay and benefits.
 

LunarMist

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Where I will be living soon, 40-70mph acceleration is very important. Lots of 2-lane roads that go on for many miles. Lots of farm equipment and other trucks driving ~45mph.

Not to mention freeways with left-turn lanes and stop signs instead of on-ramps. Those make 0-60 times quite relevant.

So you need to drive like a maniac when the roads have only two lanes? That's why I would get a solid SUV if I had to drive in those areas. Fortunately I no longer drive in risky head-on collision zones.
 

Pradeep

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Sounds like he needs the acceleration to minimise the time he spends in the wrong (oncoming lane). A barge like SUV would only make this worse. Head on at 60 each will give you a closing speed of 120mph. Doesn't matter if you are in an SUV or a Smart car, the end is inevitable. And perhaps finality is better than emerging vegetable like from the SUV.
 

udaman

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Driving more than 45mph is "driving like a maniac"? The speed limit on these roads is 55-60mph.

Less populated rural areas/western states have 70-75mph limits on similar roads. But I think dd will only be driving at those slightly higher than posted limits for passing, when he's in his 60's or 70's...assuming he doesn't die 1st. Until then, the added 'safety' capability of acceleration will more than likely be abused by constant 100mph trips w/120-150mph passing, just like so many others do.

Speaking of death traps, the infamous Chunnel (only a matter of time before terrorists strike that high-profile target), you'll not get me to regualarly rely on high-speed trains, I'd rather fly and take my chances there.

For occasional, niche trips, I might do that Chunnel (and hope the transit strikes are not occuring at the same time) after hitting the 90meter Champagne bar.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20071114/wl_uk_afp/britaintravelrailfrance;_y

It has been kitted out with Wifi, touchscreen monitors and passenger information screens. It also hosts Europe's biggest champagne bar -- 90 metres long -- along with a plethora of upmarket boutiques.
The station, built in 1868, was a long-neglected Victorian Gothic revival masterpiece. But nearly 140 years of dirt has been scraped from the station's brickwork during the 800-million-pound restoration.
1.6 Bil $$$ restoration, well that did not cost much did it, and not a single mile/kilo of extra capacity or rail routes was added for all that money? Public Trans must Suxx in Europe, almost as much as it does in lala land.
 

ddrueding

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Hardly, uda. I used the cruise control at 10+ for the entire drive home last night (11PM). And my 45-50 minute commute took nearly 90 minutes. Madness.
 

jtr1962

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Speaking of death traps, the infamous Chunnel (only a matter of time before terrorists strike that high-profile target), you'll not get me to regualarly rely on high-speed trains, I'd rather fly and take my chances there.
Terrorists won't be hitting the Chunnel or any other high-speed train anytime soon. They just don't make good targets. Put a bomb on a train and at best you'll kill a few dozen people in whatever car the bomb is in. You won't derail the train or cause a major accident because the car body will contain the explosion of any bomb small enough to pass security. You can't use the train to knock down a skyscraper. You can't even really hijack one in the strict sense. Try to take control of one, and the system operators will just cut the track power so you're going nowhere. Try to pass a red signal to cause a collision and the emergency brake trips. Not a very attractive target to cause havoc, movies likes The Taking of Pelham 123 notwithstanding. Planes still make much more attractive targets. It doesn't take a very powerful bomb to bring down a plane. Someone getting a few stinger missiles can have a lot of fun near a major airport, with often five or six easy targets in the air at a time.

1.6 Bil $$$ restoration, well that did not cost much did it, and not a single mile/kilo of extra capacity or rail routes was added for all that money? Public Trans must Suxx in Europe, almost as much as it does in lala land.
Blame the politicians for that. It's high-profile spending no different than what Donald Trump does. If I were in charge the stations would barely be kept in repair to safely move passenger while most of the money would go into improvements to get people from point A to point B faster. They wouldn't care about the relative disrepair of the station as they wouldn't be there very long.

Less populated rural areas/western states have 70-75mph limits on similar roads. But I think dd will only be driving at those slightly higher than posted limits for passing, when he's in his 60's or 70's...assuming he doesn't die 1st. Until then, the added 'safety' capability of acceleration will more than likely be abused by constant 100mph trips w/120-150mph passing, just like so many others do.
I've never ridden with dd so I can't make the blanket assumption like you that what he's doing is unsafe. Remember that most speed limits these days are legislated, not set at the 95th percentile rounded up to the nearest 5 mph as in the old days, so you can't automatically assume that anyone driving over the limit is doing something dangerous. Using the old method of setting limits, when someone was breaking the limit by even 1 mph, that meant they were going faster than at least 95% of the other drivers. In all likelihood they probably were statistically less safe. At 10 mph over they certainly were.

Anyway, I'll be more than happy to give up my fantasies about public transit once I can legally travel in a car at the same 200 mph speed as the fastest trains now do, and at the same level of safety. When will that happen? Given the "speed kills" attitude of the legislators plus the resistance to automate cars, can we say never? So we're stuck with cars artificially limited to maybe 70 mph because of "safe think". To me that makes them just about useless. Sheesh, steam trains were going that speed around 1880. With a bit more research, we'll have human-powered vehicles which can cruise at close to those speeds. Even though those cost $$$$ compared to a regular bike, they still cost less than a car, don't require a license or insurance, don't need gas, and give you exercise to boot. Since in all likelihood I'd just be interested in moving myself on a long trip, plus not more than 20 or so pounds of luggage, they're all I need, and they wouldn't have much speed penalty over a car. Yeah, I'll still take high-speed trains over HPVs because of the added comfort/speed, but we'll probably never have those in the US, either, for reasons I mentioned a few times.

ddrueding said:
used the cruise control at 10+ for the entire drive home last night (11PM). And my 45-50 minute commute took nearly 90 minutes. Madness.
So that's 40 minutes added each way to your commute, about 6.5 hours for a regular 5-day work week. At a conservative $40/hour based on what you bill customers at these inane speed laws are costing you about $13.5K per year. Maybe you should bill whoever sets these rules for your time. I remember reading that the national 55 mph limit cost hundreds of billions in lost productivity before it was lifted. It didn't even save energy or lives, either. The police chases to pull over "speeders" cost more lives than were saved by the slightly greater survivability of crashes (limited-access highway crashes are exceedingly rare anyway, not a major cause of death compared to crashes on two-lane roads). Because the lower speeds used somewhat less gas, at least the rare times they could actually be enforced, inefficient cars continued to used. Had we just let speed limits evolve with autos, we would have had cars which were much more efficient at 100 mph, and also at lower speeds as a consequence. And I doubt the SUV craze would have ever happened. Those things would just burn too much gas to make sense at 100 mph, even when it only cost $1 a gallon. Their stability at those speeds leaves something to be desired as well.
 

Fushigi

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To attack a train it makes far more sense to simply blow up the track. Take your explosive of choice, hook it to a vibration-sensor trigger, and place it anywhere close to a track where it won't be observed (like the road-side bombs in Iraq). Safer / non-martyr for the terrorist, cheaper as no ticket is required, and less chance of being caught as there are no security checkpoints to clear and no crowds to maneuver through.

Also, trains sure can be a terrorist target. The goal of a terrorist is to bring about change by terrorizing. Strategic train bombings - commuter and/or cross country - will greatly reduce society's trust of the rail transit system, causing untold delays in human and possibly merchandise transport. Attacking a train just isn't sexy like jet-based attacks.

If you want mass impact, the easiest and most far-reaching attacks would probably be against municipal water supplies.
 

jtr1962

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To attack a train it makes far more sense to simply blow up the track. Take your explosive of choice, hook it to a vibration-sensor trigger, and place it anywhere close to a track where it won't be observed (like the road-side bombs in Iraq). Safer / non-martyr for the terrorist, cheaper as no ticket is required, and less chance of being caught as there are no security checkpoints to clear and no crowds to maneuver through.
Believe it or not, a lot of TGV lines have intrusion sensors all along the line to detect trespassors. And they definitely have means of detecting broken rail, whether from weather or explosion. Sure, what you describe can happen, but I'd wager to guess only once or twice. After that, security measures will be stepped up to the point that it probably couldn't happen.

There was talk of terrorists possibly attacking an old subway system like in NYC without many of the failsafe devices I described. In the end it was deemed highly improbable. There's so much traffic during the times an attack would make sense that a terrorist would likely get hit by a train in a tunnel, or spotted by a motorman on the opposite track, before they could set a bomb. And the system's age probably makes it more dangerous to trains than bombs at this point.

If you want mass impact, the easiest and most far-reaching attacks would probably be against municipal water supplies.
My mom and I talk about exactly that-possible and very scary.
 

Mercutio

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I'm sorry, but you're living in a neocon fearmonger's dreamworld if you, as an ordinary citizen, are so worried about terrorists that you actually take the time to even have conversations about "them" and what "they" could do.

Statistically, you're more likely to be the next guy to marry Angelina Jolie than you are to be harmed by a terrorist attack in the USA.

The whole world is not out to get Flushing, New York. Or Portage, Indiana.

All you're doing is making it easier for a bunch of people to manipulate you, jtr.
 

jtr1962

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Statistically, you're more likely to be the next guy to marry Angelina Jolie than you are to be harmed by a terrorist attack in the USA.
Hmm, terrorist attack or Angelina Jolie-tough choice... ;-)

Obviously I don't spend a whole lot of time worrying about this stuff, or having conversations about it. Honestly. Most of my conversations lately center on the whole sub-prime loan debacle. If the economy goes south on account of that then it is quite likely to affect me. Regarding terrorism, some of the things you might need to be aware of, or to prepare for an admittedly unlikely terrorist attack, are the exact same things you might need in case of a major natural disaster. Last major hurricane to hit NYC was 1938. They come on average every 60 years. Again, not likely to happen in any one year, but it probably will sometime in my life. Never hurts to be at least marginally prepared (flashlights, water, canned food).

Of course, you'll have to admit terrorism can seem a little more real when it happens within ten miles of you, and kills someone you knew. To most of the country the words are still an abstraction. It actually happened here in a big way twice. It'll probably happen here again in my lifetime at least once or twice. Flushing or Portage aren't high-profile targets but Wall Street or 42nd Street most certainly are.
 

ddrueding

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On Sept. 11, I went to work. In SF within eyesight of Pier 39. I actually got in an argument with security who were trying to make me leave "for my own safety". Stupid cattle.
 
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