Something Random

ddrueding

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The stretch of 101 that I drive regularly was widened from 2 lanes each way to 4 about 7 years ago. The original lanes (outside / slow) are still asphalt while the new lanes (inside / fast) are concrete. From the day they were installed to today on my drive home, the asphalt has been quieter and smoother. Considering all that noise/movement is coming from and through my car, I have to assume that the car is doing more work/wearing out faster.
 

ddrueding

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Yeah, because rabid individualism is so healthy.

My argument would be that humans are innately rabidly individualistic. It is, at it's core, a survival instinct and has been reinforced by every competition anyone has ever done.

[indefensible half-baked theory]

The only people that want socialism are those that would benefit by it. Because these people would be getting more, others must be getting less.* These people who get less would obviously not want it.

[/indefensible half-baked theory]

The drive behind most great people is to be rewarded for their hard work. I don't want to live in a society where hard work isn't rewarded and laziness isn't punished.

If you can work that into a non-corrupt socialist structure, sign me up.





*I'm not saying that there is a conservation of benefits, I'm sure a socialist system increases the average. But those who work hardest, are smartest, are luckiest, will have some of their benefit taken from them and given to the rest.
 

jtr1962

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The drive behind most great people is to be rewarded for their hard work. I don't want to live in a society where hard work isn't rewarded and laziness isn't punished.
Except that capitalism rarely works that way. A lot of success in our society has more to do with knowing the right people, or being in the right place at the right time. I know plenty of people who have busted their butts and are still poor. I personally had to take jobs at $5 an hour at times because that's all I could get. Show me a system where the rewards really are directly proportional to the effort and I'll sign up. The problem with capitalism is that the rewards are proportional to the demand for whatever it is you're selling. If nobody wants it, or someone copies it, you're screwed. The demand for things which require more effort to create isn't necessarily higher than for things which require less effort. Britney Spears is a case in point. Nothing she's done is really of any significant value or essential in any way to society, yet she gets millions a year. It could easily be argued that anyone here creates things of more benefit to society than Britney Spears, yet nobody here even earns close to what she does. And as for effort, exactly how much effort could anyone who's only 25 have put into their life? So capitalism neither rewards effort nor education. Maybe on average there's a slight correlation between one's wealth and the effort one puts into life, but that's about it. Many of the homeless and other apparent slackers are people who tried their darnest, then finally gave up in disgust when nothing they did work. I personally have a long string of failed projects which have nothing to do with lack of effort, and everything to do with fickle customers, unfair competition, intellectual property infringement, etc. If I wasn't living with my mom, I'd probably be among the ranks of the homeless. That's how bad things are.


*I'm not saying that there is a conservation of benefits, I'm sure a socialist system increases the average. But those who work hardest, are smartest, are luckiest, will have some of their benefit taken from them and given to the rest.
Some measure of socialism is needed simply to make sure those who were plain unlucky, and not lazy or uneducated, get a portion of the benefits of those who were unfairly lucky, such as Britney Spears or any number of other no talent celebrities. This is why we have public housing and public transportation. Nobody expects to live large on the public dole. However, I don't think it's fair either if a person who can only get a minimum wage job can't get to work because no public transportation exists where they live. By the same token, I remain opposed to subsidizing people for having more babies, and also to most plans for socialized medicine. Free medical care doesn't necessarily equate to better health. In fact, the opposite can be argued. If a person knows they'll have large medical bills if they don't take decent care of themselves that's an incentive to stay healthy. If medical care is free, my guess is more will neglect their health while expecting the free clinics to fix everything. Case in point-many poor areas where the residents have medicaid also have the heaviest instances of obesity, diabetes, smoking, alcoholism, and drug abuse.

My argument would be that humans are innately rabidly individualistic. It is, at it's core, a survival instinct and has been reinforced by every competition anyone has ever done.
I'm not sure that's entirely true. I saw something on TV where fossil evidence indicated early man taking care of their elderly who were in pretty bad shape. Now these elderly were no longer of much survival value to the group. In fact, from a strictly selfish perspective the group would have been better off overall just letting them die, but they chose instead to care for them. This was a selfless act at a time when necessities were often scarce, never mind luxuries. I think as a social animal humans need the group, and so often decisions get made which may not be in the best interests of those making them, but instead benefit the group. Or put another way, sometimes a decision favoring the group may seem to not benefit you, but in the end it does. Maybe the tribal elders offered wisdom crucial for survival. A more relevant case in point to illustrate this-you pay $100 a year extra taxes to fund a new public transportation system which you never use because you drive. At first you're unhappy about it. However, the new system allows your company to attract workers who otherwise couldn't afford to get there, your company grows, and next year you get a $2000 raise you otherwise wouldn't have gotten as a result. Everyone wins here even though at first it didn't seem that way.

What I'm really getting at is that taken by themselves all these transportation projects (that includes roads) will never turn a profit, so no private company will be interested in building them. However, the economic activity they generate, the wealth they allow to be created, is what makes them profitable in the larger scheme of things. The only way they get built since private industry won't work is via government subsidy (both capital and in some cases operational). You can call it socialism if you want but I don't see it that way.
 

Handruin

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IIRC, concrete roads are more expensive to build than asphalt. They do, however, last a lot longer and can handle heaver loads & traffic patterns. I don't think one or the other is much worse on vehicles although asphalt roads degrade faster and will get more potholes faster (which will cause more vehicle wear & tear sooner if the road isn't properly maintained).

Concrete highways in the winter would likely be one slick surface to deal with. Frost heaves would also play hell on them around here...so building them would likely cost more money to do it right.
 

Clocker

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Asphalt is smoother and quieter because it is softer & weaker and has no seams between slabs. Tar strips between slabs won't do any noticeable damage to your vehicle. Technically, you will get lower gas mileage while driving on asphalt (up to 11% less according to the link below), especially when it's hot, which causes more wear and tear on the vehicle as well as your pocket book. You will find asphalt roads wear out a LOT faster and fall into disrepair faster which can cause significant pothole damage to your vehicle. Concrete roads are also safer to drive on and can be textured for optimal traction in areas that may require better grip.

Either way, asphalt is a LOT cheaper to install. Heck, a large stretch of asphalt road can be done in a day whereas concrete takes much longer. There's a reason for that, it's a better longterm solution. Hence the reason that most Interstates that endure heavy traffic are made of concrete.

The CAC states that roads constructed with concrete offer several advantages over asphalt, "Factoring in lifecycle costs to highway construction projects is a forward-looking and responsible policy decision," says CAC president Fran￾ois Lacroix. "In the long run, Ontario motorists will save millions in highway maintenance costs, and be spared the frustration of dealing with recurring reconstruction work to maintain the roadway because concrete is more resistant than asphalt."

The CAC also notes that concrete roads are good news for the environment, as concrete creates less deflection than asphalt and reduces fuel consumption by up to 11 per cent. According to a recent study produced by KPMG and based on National Research Council findings, the Ontario trucking industry alone could save as much as $67 million a year in fuel costs. Reduced fuel consumption also translates into fewer greenhouse gas emissions, representing a potential savings of up to $30 million a year in pollution control costs for the provincial government.

In addition, concrete roads are also said to provide a longer lasting, smoother and safer ride. Their rigid surface reduces the risk of hydroplaning, seldom potholes and reflects light better than asphalt to improve visibility of the pavement at night. In terms of durability, concrete highways have a strong track record in some of the coldest parts of North America. By design, concrete mixes are tailored to specific applications and exposure conditions, ensuring strength and durability, while proper mix design can eliminate potential salt damage to the concrete surface. Concrete’s advocates also point out that its structural strength allows heavy trucks to be carried throughout the year without weight restrictions, even during the spring thaw.

http://www.rocktoroad.com/concreteroads.html
 

jtr1962

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Technically, you will get lower gas mileage while driving on asphalt (up to 11% less according to the link below), especially when it's hot, which causes more wear and tear on the vehicle as well as your pocket book.
I actually notice the extra tire drag while cycling over recently paved asphalt roads. It takes a few weeks for the asphalt to cure enough so that the tire drag becomes "normal". I do notice even less tire drag on the few local roads which are made of concrete. As a cyclist the main downside to concrete roads would be road rash. It can get bad enough on asphalt. Concrete would be literally like sliding on sandpaper.

One thing about asphalt roads and heavy trucks-the truck tires make a set of noticeable grooves after a while. This is very noticeable on the Long Island Expressway (which allows heavy trucks) compared to the Grand Central Parkway (which doesn't).
 

ddrueding

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JTR,

I was going to quote you, but including all your text for my little bit of text looked silly.

1. Paying people because they work hard at something that isn't in demand doesn't make sense. It makes sense to pay for things based on their demand, not their difficulty of manufacture. As long as Brittany's boobs are in demand, she gets the $$$. Adapting to changing demand is important for the survival of the society and the individual.

2. Luck is an important factor to success, regardless of effort or knowledge. I have been lucky a number of times, and believe that a significant element of luck is being in the right place at the right time and saying the right thing; luck and effort therefore are closely tied.

3. Life isn't fair, and never has been. Trying to make it so only burdens the society. A safety net for those who misstep is one thing, supporting those that won't (or can't) pull their own weight is another.
 

jtr1962

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As long as Brittany's boobs are in demand, she gets the $$$.
So long as we have a society of mostly morons, things like that will unfortunately be in demand. I guess that's really the heart of the problem. It doesn't take effort or brains to do something which appeals to the masses since they are both fickle and mostly illogical. It's a matter of happening to chance on whatever stupid thing might start another fad, and that really is blind luck.

2. Luck is an important factor to success, regardless of effort or knowledge. I have been lucky a number of times, and believe that a significant element of luck is being in the right place at the right time and saying the right thing; luck and effort therefore are closely tied.
You've been a lot luckier than you realize compared to many of the people here. Although Merc seems to have the stars lined up against him I'm probably a close second. I don't think udaman has had much luck lately, either, come to think of it.

3. Life isn't fair, and never has been. Trying to make it so only burdens the society. A safety net for those who misstep is one thing, supporting those that won't (or can't) pull their own weight is another.
Let's try another angle here:

Scenario A: Society decides to carry the hapless inventor through a few decades of tough times just because he at least tried. He may not have invented things which were in demand, may not have had the right connections to sell his stuff, but heck, he tried like hell, working 18 hour days for years in his lab. One day our hapless inventor stumbles upon exactly what our society needs to bail it out of a terrible crisis. All the money spent supporting our inventor, and 100s of others just like him, suddenly pales in comparison to the value of his new invention.

Scenario B: Our down on his luck inventor tries unsuccessfully to make something people actually want. Since government won't support him through the bad times his family helps him, for a while anyway. Eventually they can no longer afford it. Our inventor, now with no means of support, takes his life in a fit of despair. Years later, society is in a crisis and needs a new way of doing things to bail them out. Unfortunately, most of the inventors are either dead or homeless. After all, most of them couldn't make anything marketable so they had no money. Since inventing was generally not a good living there were few new converts. Most people instead aspired to be stock brokers, lawyers, or entertainers. Of course, none of these people had the background to figure a way out of the crisis despite the money society paid them. Soon, society reaches a crisis and starts to implode. The few who knew our inventor remark that had he been around, he would have had an answer. Was paying a relative pittance for his food, lodging, and hobbies really so terrible in retrospect? In the end does it really matter if someone may not have whatever society asks for at that particular moment, but perhaps may at some indeterminate date in the future. And so these questions were pondered as humanity faded from the spotlight.....

Moral of the story: So long as you're educated and hard working you have something to offer society and should receive a modicum of support. You shouldn't have to remake yourself constantly into something you're not to fit the mold of whatever the fickle general public happens to be asking for at that moment. That's exactly what I hate the most about capitalism. Your skills may not be in demand today, or tomorrow, or perhaps ever. But then again they might be. It's a little presumptuous of society to only reward those who produce in the here and now. In fact, it's a trademark of our current short-sightedness. CEOs no longer worry about the next decade or even half century as they used to. Now it's all about the next quarter. Supporting people like inventors or artists or any others who can't earn a living through conventional means isn't welfare. It's a hedge against a future where you may need whatever skills they bring to the table. It's about diversifying the skill set of humanity, letting everyone do whatever they're best suited to. If it were up to capitalism everyone would all be stock brokers, lawyers, athletes, and entertainers. Exactly how useful would any of those be in the grand scheme of things?
 

jtr1962

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WRT public health care (and expanding the role of the govt. in general), there was an interesting debate on NPR today about subsidizing the entertainment industry through taxes. It started as a discussion of the screenwriters guild, and pretty quickly turned into a discussion on how companies were going to get money for creative works in general. The idea posed by one of the guests was to tax everyone ~$100/year ($20B total) and get rid of copyright for music, TV, and movies completely.

Thoughts?
I actually rather like the idea. Once we get rid of copyrights the RIAA and MPAA will disappear. Hopefully all the money will go directly to the artists. I don't mind artists profiting directly off their work. What really annoys me are the bunch of parasites (executives, agents, lawyers) who profit off the artists. That's really why CDs cost as much as they do.

So $100 a year and I can basically download all the movies I want? I'm in.
 

ddrueding

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Re: Scientists who eventually might make good.

This sounds to me like a return on investment calculation. Just like current big business mindsets, you are concerned about short-sightedness. Let's explore that a bit. Why are corporate executives not interested in the long-term best interests of their companies? What could we do to change that? Does anyone else see a parallel to our current administration? I get the feeling that they are trying to squeeze the most they can out of their term; driving up the deficit and grinding down military reserves, hoping that it will all fall apart the day after they leave office. What policies would change this?
 

jtr1962

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Very astute, Dave. That's exactly what I was getting at, an ROI calculation. And it doesn't just apply to scientists. You can lump in musicians, actors, authors, etc. Even though I don't listen to music, very rarely read fiction, and rarely go to the cinema, I still feel all these groups need public support. After all, I can't just advocate supporting development of only the things which are important to me personally, like LEDs. ;) When left to the devices of private industry, I think we can all agree that we lose a lot of diversity. Whatever doesn't sell today gets dropped. What does sell gets copied ad infinitum. We need creative people to do whatever it is they do best without the worry of having to have a day job doing something they can't stand just to get by.

I think the current administration is just another symbol of the direction our society is headed in, not the cause of it. This short-sightedness started long before Bush Jr. Even when I was in college there were massive cuts in research grants, scholarships, R&D departments in companies. If there was no foreseeable return within the tenure of the current leader it was gone. I wonder how many people were hurt by this. I also wonder how much the country was hurt by this. No answers on how to fix it, but the problem goes very deep unfortunately.
 

udaman

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After all, I can't just advocate supporting development of only the things which are important to me personally, like LEDs. ;)

LED's are old, obsolete technology :D

Speak for yourself jtr, I am much older and more cynical than your idealist (unrealists) youthfully fixed mentality. At this point I'm quite satisfied with supporting development of me hooking up with damn cute, English fluent/semi-fluent Cantonese cuttie natives from So.China/Hong Kong. If opportunity knocked, I could care less about anyone, or the future of mankind since I'll be dead in a few decades if this extra weight doesn't kill me like Pavorati.

So long as we have a society of mostly morons, things like that will unfortunately be in demand. I guess that's really the heart of the problem. It doesn't take effort or brains to do something which appeals to the masses since they are both fickle and mostly illogical.


You've been a lot luckier than you realize compared to many of the people here. Although Merc seems to have the stars lined up against him I'm probably a close second. I don't think udaman has had much luck lately, either, come to think of it.

Take a look in the mirror jtr, you should see yourself. Luck? More like being in the right place at the right time...which means for you, your destiny is in your own hands when you waste your life, scared to risk enough to even take a silly plane to Asia, don't you see?

If you don't put yourself out there enough, try something new and different--beyond your comfort zone of being Pink Floyd 'Comfortably Numb', you can't have much chance of finding that luck.

BTW, you did not reply to my recent email, whereas unfortunately with my bad luck, she did to my latest after continually ignoring them earlier in the year, lol. Must be a bad omen then.

SR: What if God smoked Cannabis?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PybtBKSAtLM

BTW, I thought is was more recently her punani that was most marketable, not Brits breasts???
 

Howell

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Many of the homeless and other apparent slackers are people who tried their darnest, then finally gave up in disgust when nothing they did work. I personally have a long string of failed projects which have nothing to do with lack of effort, and everything to do with fickle customers, unfair competition, intellectual property infringement, etc. If I wasn't living with my mom, I'd probably be among the ranks of the homeless. That's how bad things are.

Most of the homeless at the shelter where I volunteer are either drug-addicted or mentally disabled. I'd say 50 percent are drug-addicted and 25 mentally disabled. The remaining 25% just don't want to live by the rules of society. Society praises personal hygiene so they don't bathe. Its this weird contrarian power trip where even good things are avoided. jtr, the choices you have made have affected the path of your life. I'm not criticizing your decisions but there are many, many people not as smart as you who manage to stay off the streets.
 

Howell

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Economic Libertarian "Let the Market Rule" road construction?

Yup. That'll be great. Until the day you need to get to the little town in the Midwest where your family lives, and find out that the ROI on maintaining the roads to do it weren't high enough to make a private company interested in doing it, so you only option are some ruts in hopefully hard-packed soil.

There are some things, like public transportation, emergency services (yes fucking including health care) and maintenance of the power grid that are best served as ongoing public programs, rather than private entities.

You act like these things are rights. You do not have an inalienable right to visit your family or not die young or keep the lights on. In the old days, the community would send a few kids to college and the kids would respond by funneling part of their income back into the community. That is how it should be.
 

jtr1962

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Take a look in the mirror jtr, you should see yourself. Luck? More like being in the right place at the right time...which means for you, your destiny is in your own hands when you waste your life, scared to risk enough to even take a silly plane to Asia, don't you see?
Not scared. I just wouldn't gain enough from it to make it worth the risk, probably still rather take a boat if it came down to it. Remember that I don't drive so that means I have no way of getting to a lot of airports. Besides, not much you can do in the way of world travel on my income. The plane trip to China would be about 3 months of my total income for me, more like a year of my disposible income. Remember how I mulled over even spending a lousy $500 to fix my bikes?

BTW, you did not reply to my recent email, whereas unfortunately with my bad luck, she did to my latest after continually ignoring them earlier in the year, lol. Must be a bad omen then.
Sorry about that. I've been preoccupied lately with other things. I'll get to it.
 

Howell

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I have a friend who wanted to start a non-profit. Although his he has one or two masters degrees they are in obscure (but important) fields and he has had trouble finding work that would do more than pay the bills. Some friends and I have formed to help him with the things he is not good at.

The problem with socialism is that people don't naturally want to behave that way. The problem with capitalism is that it legitimizes the reduction of people to numbers.
 

jtr1962

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Most of the homeless at the shelter where I volunteer are either drug-addicted or mentally disabled. I'd say 50 percent are drug-addicted and 25 mentally disabled. The remaining 25% just don't want to live by the rules of society. Society praises personal hygiene so they don't bathe. Its this weird contrarian power trip where even good things are avoided. jtr, the choices you have made have affected the path of your life. I'm not criticizing your decisions but there are many, many people not as smart as you who manage to stay off the streets.
You're both right and wrong. Sure, most homeless have many social problems which I don't. There are a few who don't and just reached an unfortunate stage where they're unable to earn enough to support themselves for whatever reason. That would really be my problem. I have CTS so full-time work is out. At best, assuming that I get all the work I can physically handle at my normal rates, I can perhaps break $20K a year. It hasn't happened yet, but it's possible (10 hours a week at maybe $40 an hour). Still, $20K a year isn't enough to make it here. Figure a single person needs closer to $75K before taxes just for a modest apartment. The only way to get by with less is if you own a house free and clear like my mom. In that case $15K or 20K might cut it, barely. But you need about $600K to buy the house in the first place. I'm not even one-sixth of the way there. Only two ways for me to make things better at this point-try to get more work up to the constraints of what I can physically handle (roughly 10 hours a week average), or do something where I can bill more per hour (I need richer clients for that). Lately I'm also unfortunately tied up trying to organize/sell all my late father's hobby crap so work has to take a back seat.

No I won't end up on the streets. That's a choice. If it ever came down to that I'll commit suicide and die with dignity like a warrior, not live on the streets like an animal. As it is I probably have enough to last me a year and change if my mom kicks me out or decides to sell the house. After that I might end up with dad.

The problem with socialism is that people don't naturally want to behave that way. The problem with capitalism is that it legitimizes the reduction of people to numbers.
How do you feel about distributism? I think it combines the best aspects of socialism and capitalism. Give someone the physical means to earn a living, and then let them take it from there.
 

jtr1962

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Oh, I forgot to mention that one of my failed projects caused my friend who I was doing it with to lose about $20K. So besides not making either of us a dime, it cost him a pretty penny, and me about six months of my life. Think how guilty I'm feeling about that even though neither of us was at fault for things not working out. Our client was a fickle asshole who ended up buying absolute crap from the competition because it was a few dollars cheaper. To add insult to injury the competition partially copied our design but used $2 an hour Mexicans to put it together. We both decided that should he ever approach us again with a new project he'll have to give us about $100K before we'll even look at it. I'm not having this ever happen to me again.
 

ddrueding

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Wow, so many responses while I slept...time to try and catch up (not in order).

Less than a year after leaving my parent's house, I ended up on the street in Berkeley. Why? I hadn't been flexible enough in my thinking, or willing to compromise enough to make it work. Solution? I became more flexible, adjusted my standards, got a shower at the local shelter, and got a job inventorying Bic pens at an OfficeMax in Oakland (graveyard shifts).

Anyone who is healthy and wants to can get out of a shelter within 6 months. I don't think supporting people beyond that is in the interests of society.

Reducing people to numbers isn't a bad thing, provided that those numbers mean something. The concern is that the metrics used miss some relevant information, causing a failure of the system. There are 302 million people in this country, we need numbers and equations to handle that kind of volume.

*Sidenote: I don't think a democracy can legitimatly represent a population of more than ~10 million; the interests of the people and the power of a vote become too diluted beyond that.

Making the kind of ROI decisions that need to be made will require numbers. Numbers require something to quantify. What we use to measure and judge would be an interesting discussion.

JTR, the reason that you are in the situation you are financially is that you have practically no flexibility. You live in one of the most expensive places in the US, look for work that matches your skills as opposed to getting skills that match available work, and limit your mobility significantly (and therefore your scope of employers). This is fine for you, as it is a luxury that you can afford, but it is hardly a circumstance that warrants govt. support. I'm not saying that you claimed otherwise, just making sure that we are using the same language to describe the same things.

Re: Distributism.

I must admit, it's roots in religion and focus on family "One man, one woman..." really turned me off, but I did read it for the sake of the discussion.

Another segment on NPR discussed somewhere where they had done this; taken large amounts of land from a small group who were somehow undeserving and distributed it amongst the poor common people. The result? ~20% of the farmland being worked in a productive way and ~40% of the people still needing support, despite having land. Laziness? Lack of flexibility? Stupidity? Ignorance? It doesn't really matter; most of the people not helping themselves now still wouldn't/couldn't if you made it 10x easier.
 

jtr1962

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JTR, the reason that you are in the situation you are financially is that you have practically no flexibility. You live in one of the most expensive places in the US, look for work that matches your skills as opposed to getting skills that match available work, and limit your mobility significantly (and therefore your scope of employers). This is fine for you, as it is a luxury that you can afford, but it is hardly a circumstance that warrants govt. support. I'm not saying that you claimed otherwise, just making sure that we are using the same language to describe the same things.
First off, relocation is out of the question. I know myself well enough to know I couldn't stand living anywhere but a large city. I went to a college in NJ. After 3 semesters I stopped sleeping there and started commuting because I just couldn't take the boredom of being in a small town any more. I can't change that. Furthermore, I absolutely would hate living in a place where I'm wedded to an automobile. They're expensive, noisy, smelly, finicky, dangerous pieces of machinery. I get car sick on anything but the shortest rides, so to me they don't even register on a list of transportation options. To me it seems totally unnatural to not be able to walk to most places. I remember once on a business trip to Virginia trying to go for a walk from my hotel. I never felt so isolated in my life. The whole place was designed for the convenience of cars, not people. I don't know how people can live in a place like that. The adjustment is just something I can't make. I also like to give myself some chance of maybe eventually hooking up with someone. This means living in a place where the numbers game is in my favor. Small towns are out then. Besides, last I checked relocating would run me something like $50,000 between moving expenses and setting up a new place. That means probably five years or more after counting living expenses to have a chance of breaking even. I'd be better off taking that same $50,000 and just investing it.

As far as employment goes, I'm stuck with what's available here, and that's mostly $10 an hour service jobs. There's no skills to develop to match the available work. Rather, there's no point to even bothering since it's all dead end. The local economy is mostly service sector, and service sector pays low. Believe me, I took jobs out of my field. In fact, those same jobs are what gave me the carpal tunnel syndrome. And that leads me to the fact that because I have CTS I'm pretty much unable to work any job full-time. It's been that way since about 1990.

Scheduling is another problem. Again, I'm mostly stuck with the day jobs here. I hate it with a passion since I'm a night person. I read about all the things people here do when they're not at work and I'm amazed they have the energy level to do them. When I was stuck working a day job I was totally spent after the work day. Weekends were mostly sleeping extra so I had enough energy to get through the week. In short, working full-time for me meant having no other life or hobbies. I just didn't have the energy for it. Three years ago I helped my friend at the taxi place for a month during the rate change. I was exhausted afterwards and it took me three months to start feeling normal. I don't have such a chronically low energy level when I adjust my schedule to be up nights but even then it's not that great. I've always had this problem, BTW. In school I was spent after the week whereas many of my peers weren't. I'm sure that hurt me in many ways as well. It's not a health issue, either. It's just part of my psysiological make-up (low body temp, low energy level). My dad was the same way. I think many of the people we accuse of being "lazy" just plain don't have the energy level to work a full-time job. Not their fault, really. I also almost forgot to mention since you were talking about limiting my mobility that driving to work on a day shift would be impossible for me, even without CTS. At that time of morning, by luck I find my way to the bus which takes me to the subway. I tried once biking to work. After only two blocks I nearly had or caused a bunch of accidents, hit a pedestrian, and did a few other really stupid things. The brain and reflexes just plain don't work for me that time of day. I turned around and took the bus instead. In a car I have little doubt I would kill someone or get killed myself within a week. So regardless of locale, working a day job for me requires taking public transit.

Anyway, given these circumstances, I'm doing the only thing that makes any sense-self-employment. Sure, eventually I can develop skills which might bring me more money but that's not really the main problem. In fact, since my current skills are worth $40 to $60 an hour depending upon the work and the client I think that's more than good enough. The main problem remains getting more clients. That's a matter of time. CPF has been helpful in that regard. I can't think of any other way, really. Advertising is beyond my budget. It probably wouldn't work too well anyway given my rather specific abilities. And at this point in my life getting the house cleaned up is more important than earning money. I can't work at all in this type of environment (how the basement looked shortly after my father died):

Basement.jpg


Finally, I'm the type of person who couldn't care less about money or material things anyway. That gives me little incentive to do something I don't want to do just to satisfy society's desire that I be productive. My sole reason for earning any money at all is to save it so I don't have worry about earning it any more. Unlike many others who wouldn't know what to do if not for work, I'll be happy if the day comes when I can say I'm retired and comfortable. Really, the main obstacle right now is buying a house, preferably the one I'm living in. Once that's done, and I have maybe another $300K in investments for the $15K I need to maintain it, I'm all set.

Regarding distributism-you can't just give people the means to production. You have to teach them how to use them. That's undoubtedly most of the problem in the example you gave. You can't expect people who were never farmers to magically know what to do with the land. We've grown vegetables for years but I bet we would still be clueless if given a full-fledged farm.
 

ddrueding

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JTR,

You use words like couldn't, can't, stuck, and unable when all you describe is your own choices. Don't get me wrong, you aren't going to get any crap from me about needing to be productive; you seem well established and don't complain about your situation. You are, of course, free to do whatever you want. It is, however, people with a similar mindset looking for handouts that drives me crazy.
 

ddrueding

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Regarding distributism-you can't just give people the means to production. You have to teach them how to use them. That's undoubtedly most of the problem in the example you gave. You can't expect people who were never farmers to magically know what to do with the land. We've grown vegetables for years but I bet we would still be clueless if given a full-fledged farm.

And you believe that people would work if we trained them? As we talked about further up the thread, if someone is really willing to work, there are plenty of opportunities as it is.
 

jtr1962

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You use words like couldn't, can't, stuck, and unable when all you describe is your own choices. Don't get me wrong, you aren't going to get any crap from me about needing to be productive; you seem well established and don't complain about your situation. You are, of course, free to do whatever you want.
I use those words because in many cases I've been there, done that, and for me personally it just wasn't possible. I tried living in a small town for those three semesters. The boredom and ensuing depression because of the sameness was more than I could handle. I was actually suicidal by the time I decided I couldn't do it any more. Ditto for my times of employment. The only thing sustainable for me long-term has been self-employment. I never had a job where I lasted more than about two years. By then I was so bored to tears I had to leave for my own sanity. My only real complaint now isn't about my work situation, it's about my home situation. My dad left us a legacy of useless hobby crap which clutters our lives but is worth too much to just throw away. It'll be some years before it's all gone. Until then, my life, both professional and personal, is pretty much on hold. I haven't even had any friends over for the last six months.

It is, however, people with a similar mindset looking for handouts that drives me crazy.
I neither expect nor want handouts, either. Even in my home situation I probably do enough home repairs to cover the extra electric and food I consume, so I don't consider that a handout. Like my mom says, most of the home expenses would be the same with or without me so it makes no difference. We supported my brother for over a year while he was saving to get a house so I'm not the only one on the receiving end. If more families helped each other like this, there wouldn't be a need for state-sponsored welfare.

And you believe that people would work if we trained them? As we talked about further up the thread, if someone is really willing to work, there are plenty of opportunities as it is.
Yes, I do. Speaking from experience there's a world of difference between working for someone else and working for yourself. As an employee I'm lazy, couldn't care less about developing my skills, and in general do barely what it necessary to keep from getting fired. I arrive late and leave early. As my own boss, I go the extra mile, learn what I need to, have a completely different attitude. I'm not saying the opportunity to be self-sufficient would make all lazy people productive, but I dare say that many would have a completely different attitude once they were in charge. I've pushed myself way harder at times than I ever would working for someone else. Let's face it, when your boss gets most of the money and all you get is a lousy $8 or $10 an hour, what incentive is there to really kill yourself or go the extra mile? Some vague promise of maybe a quarter an hour raise or a promotion where they give you a title? Or maybe a stupid employee of the month plaque? I'm convinced that being lazy sometimes is actually a survival mechanism to conserve energy at times when the return on your effort isn't worthwhile. Unfortunately, even though we purportedly say we reward productivity, we've set up much of our society in a manner where being lazy probably makes more sense. The hourly or salaried employee situation is really the best example I can think of. Paying people by their production has always made much more sense. The amount of wasted time I've seen in large corporations is incredible. The majority of times people could do their jobs in 20 hours instead of 40. I bet if you told people they could leave early once their work was done the trips to the water cooler would end.
 

ddrueding

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Interesting last paragraph you have there JTR. I've been working for myself and billing hourly for nearly 8 years. I'm now playing with the idea of going exempt/salary for one of my largest clients. I'm exited by the idea of being part of something bigger, having a hand in more of the long-term decision-making that shapes how things will work in the future, and having the opportunity to share in the rewards of a successful growing business.

I want to be exempt from overtime so I can stop worrying about keeping a time card, and just do what I like doing. Putting in the hours to do it right as opposed to making it work.

Who knows, I haven't worked for anyone like this since 1999..perhaps I'll hate it. I'll keep you posted ;)
 

Mercutio

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Cars are universally boring and stupid. Let's have a thread about pretty girls instead. And ban uda from posting in it.

Also, when did this thread explode? We just started a new page a couple days ago...
 

Mercutio

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I gave all the parts for a new computer to someone I have never met today.
It's nice to be able to do things like that.
 

Handruin

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I gave all the parts for a new computer to someone I have never met today.
It's nice to be able to do things like that.

Was this a random act of kindness, or did you build them a computer and sell it to them?
 

jtr1962

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Cars are universally boring and stupid.
Well, not quite universally, but almost. I've pretty much failed to see the whole appeal of the car culture myself. Those idealistic car commercials with people driving on an empty road about as lame as it gets. The reality is closer to perpetual traffic jams, nauseating fumes, road rage, and idiot drivers. And all these exoticars? Exactly where is someone supposed to drive something which goes 200 mph? Why even bother buying such a car at all given the reality of low speed limits, traffic cops, and road congestion? As Mr. Spock might have said, "Illogical, Jim. Totally illogical".
 
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