Timing of building a new system

[mubs]

Stupid question, but I'll ask anyway

I'm not in a great hurry, but my current system is 5+ years old and getting a wee bit long in the tooth.

I'm not able to keep up with what's happening anymore; I can barely keep up with SF, the only place I visit. Is now a good time or should I wait? I know waiting always means better stuff. I've never bought bleeding edge, but try to hit the sweet spot for the best deal and the longest life of every system I build.

I don't play games but do photo editing, light video watching, browsing and heavy duty MS Office stuff.

This will be an all new rig starting with the case. Dust is a huge problem, so I need a case that is large, has adequate ventilation, quiet, cleanable filters and can handle about 5 internal drives. Choice is limited in this area, so compromises will have to be made. I guess even high-end PC class motherboards are ATX size now, so I don't have to worry about getting an E-ATX case.

When I do build a new machine, my present machine will be taken apart, cleaned, put together with a new copy of XP and given to my daughter. In a few years she'll go to college and I'll get her a laptop then.

Thanks for reading. I eagerly await your comments.

 

[Bozo]

If you keep waiting for 'the next big thing' you will never get upgraded.

Might I suggest: Antec 100 case, Asus P8B WS, and a Xeon E3-1230 cpu to get you started.
Add a power supply of your liking and 16GB of RAM (RAM is dirt cheap right now) and you will have a great work station.

 

[Pradeep]

I would suggest waiting for the release of Bulldozer (AMD FX series) on September 19th.

http://lenzfire.com/2011/07/amd-bulldozer-release-date-finalised-24475/

One can then check the benchmarks, if nothing else Bulldozer should provide downward pricing pressure on Intel processors under $300, so you should win either way. That is, if you can wait that long.

 

[Mercutio]

Honestly, I don't see Bulldozer doing much of anything to Intel's pricing unless it eats the i3/i5 alive. And if it does that, it will probably be priced accordingly.

More than likely, it will create more downward pressure on low-cost parts, a space where AMD is already the big winner for overall price and performance due to its cheap multicore offerings.

Maybe we'll get some $50 quad core CPUs out of the deal though.

 

[Pradeep]

"I don't play games but do photo editing, light video watching, browsing and heavy duty MS Office stuff."

Sounds like that's mubs's target (low-midrange machine, no need for an i7 etc).

The top end bulldozer will be $300 so they wont be competing with the very top end Intels.

 

[CougTek]

I don't think Bulldozer will affect Intel's pricing much. OEMs complained that it was underwhelming at the frequency AMD originally planned to ship them so AMD had to tweak them and operate at a higher frequency. That's no good sign. Bulldozer might became an interesting solution for someone ready to trade CPU power for higher 3D performances, but that's not the case with Mubs (photo/video editing is mostly CPU-bound).

Actually, I like Bozo's suggestion. I've used the Antec One Hundred several times and I like it a lot. The NZXT Elite Source 210, if available, might be another great alternative. If you get an enclosure with front USB 3.0 ports and that you don't want to shed the money for the Asus P8B WS, you might consider the Asus Maximus IV GENE-Z. It's a µATX, but it has a lot of integrated stuff and it also has the 20 pins connector to plug the front USB 3.0 ports. It should sell for ~170U$, while the P8B WS is easily above 200$. Not as many expansion slots, obviously. It has more tweaking options in the BIOS.

You might also want to check the price of 1600MHz DDR3 modules. They are still a bit more expensive than the 1333MHz sticks, but not enough so to not make sense considering. I can get a 16GB kit here for ~110$ (Kingston HyperX). That's roughly 25$ more than the 1333MHz one. 25$ to get another 2-3% (depending on the application) is worth it IMO. The Maximus will let you use 1600MHz DDR3 RAM ; the P8B WS, not sure it won't set them back to 1333MHz.

 

[Mercutio]

I think right now is actually a pretty good time overall. We're at a stable point with CPU interfaces. DDR3 is in its mid-life. Expansion interfaces aren't likely to change any time soon and even in SSD-land, we're not long past a wave of new products. There's probably something new in the pipeline for GPUs, but we have that all the time anyway.

I think there's a lot of value to be had if you can find a discounted Core i5/i7 or a you're interested in a very balanced multicore AMD rig that can be paired with a modest SSD.

 

[Pradeep]

I don't think Bulldozer will affect Intel's pricing much. OEMs complained that it was underwhelming at the frequency AMD originally planned to ship them so AMD had to tweak them and operate at a higher frequency. That's no good sign. Bulldozer might became an interesting solution for someone ready to trade CPU power for higher 3D performances, but that's not the case with Mubs (photo/video editing is mostly CPU-bound).

Bulldozer doesn't have integrated video like the Fusion line (Llano, Brazos etc). It's all CPU.

 

[Bozo]

You're right; the P8B WS does run 1600MHz Ram at 1333MHz. But I beleive that is because there is a Xeon in the socket. If it was an i7 CPU, the overclocking settings would be enabled in the BIOS. Right now they are not with the Xeon.
Another point for the Xeon is that it is HyperThreaded.

 

[CougTek]

So it's an underclocked i7 2600 with a locked multiplier and a cheaper price tag. Nice find.

 

[CougTek]

I've checked with my supplier and unless the american dollar became the american pesos, I easily beat Newegg on price. In fact, I'd be laughing to sell it at their price.

 

[ddrueding]

Is the i7-2700k not still the price/performance leader once you get a decent OC from it?

 

[CougTek]

i7 2700K? That's original. An overclocked i7 2600K should offer the best bang for the buck, but you can't count on overclocking. Mine, for instance, isn't behaving nicely above its nominal frequency.

 

[ddrueding]

Yeah...2600...that is what I meant

I didn't know any of them didn't make it to 4Ghz.

 

[time]

Don't you need the Antec Two Hundred case to get dust filters?

Bozo, that Xeon is a sharp pickup. Unfortunately, it has no IGP - for that you need the E3-1245, which is more expensive. And from the sounds of it, Mubs doesn't need anything more than IGP.

 

[Chewy509]

Bozo, that Xeon is a sharp pickup. Unfortunately, it has no IGP - for that you need the E3-1245, which is more expensive. And from the sounds of it, Mubs doesn't need anything more than IGP.

Does anyone know if the SB based Xeons require Reg ECC RAM, or is it optional with the E3 based models? (IIRC, "Bloomfield" based Xeons could use either RegECC or non-ECC if desired, you just had to use all the same type (no mixing RegECC sticks with non-ECC sticks. But some of the others, required Reg ECC).

At least if he wants to, he could get Reg ECC DDR3 and have 32GB installed! (But a quick look at newegg, that will set him back ~$550 just for RAM).

 

[Bozo]

I am using non-ecc ram with mine.

It is Corsair Vengeance 1600MHz, 16GB. Odd, it's not listed on Newegg anymore.

 

[CougTek]

It's better to spend 100$ for an air compressor than focusing on dust filters. They don't do much anyway and you'll have to clean up the interior of your case anyway. Buy an air compressor and use it every three or four months (if you leave your PC in a very dusty environment, have cats/dog - or cook them - and/or smoke).

 

[Bozo]

I keep a can or two of compressed air handy for cleaning the pc.

 

[Pradeep]

It's better to spend 100$ for an air compressor than focusing on dust filters. They don't do much anyway and you'll have to clean up the interior of your case anyway. Buy an air compressor and use it every three or four months (if you leave your PC in a very dusty environment, have cats/dog - or cook them - and/or smoke).

I think you are underestimating the air pollution of a major Indian city.

 

[ddrueding]

Most soot will go right through an air filter. The stuff that doesn't will stick to the bits of lint on the filter (because it is sticky, particularly in high humidity) and effectively block all air from passing through. Also very hard to get off the filter.

 

[CougTek]

I think you are underestimating the air pollution of a major Indian city.

Ok then, one shot in the morning and another after supper.

 

[LunarMist]

The 2500K makes for a fairly cheap and fast system. Now is a fine time for a new system build unless you need top end stuff.

 

[Mercutio]

I'm doing a computer building class right now.

Interestingly, I told my students about the E3-1220 and a couple of them were really interested in building on that platform. And nine out of 11 of them are getting at least an 80GB SSD.

 

[mubs]

Thanks all.

First and foremost, while I welcome all comments, I am constrained by two factors:

a) Many items are just not available here; only the fast selling ones are. I'm sure there are boutique shops where one can find everything Newegg sells, but tracking these down across the country would be a pain. Most are local operators, not national, and very few have a web presence. This will be problematic since I may not be able to use a suggestion even if I want to.

b) The costs are generally much higher. I have to keep that in mind.

I wouldn't want a lower midrange machine; one of my goals is to use it for 5 years, so it has to be a lower or mid hi-end machine. Also I work with large files, and currently, scrolling a PDF file can be painfully slow and jerky. Why the creators don't optimize them, I don't understand. CPU is an AMD 2.4GHz X2, Radeon X1600 GPU, 2 MB RAM on XP.

Filters that are easily removable and cleanable are a must! I have no pets, and the floor is swept and wet-mopped at least once a day, twice on most days, but dust is a huge problem. I don't even mind cleaning the filters every Sunday, but it's a must. I also have a liking for larger cases since they are easier to work with. Can someone answer my question on motherboard size? Are they all ATX or smaller now?

I most definitely will not be using an SSD; I consider them bleeding edge at my location! Very few choices are available, all unheard of brands. I'd have to get someone visiting from the U.S. to get me one, and if I have problems with it, I'm SOL. At my age and impatience level, I just want a solid, reliable system. My days of overclocking are long gone (Celeron and P3 slot CPUs) !

In terms of timing, I can wait 9 - 12 months if it makes sense to do so.

I have no preference for Intel or AMD.

Not sure if I need a separate graphics card or not. I'd like the option to add one if I want to.

I'll need to install a FW 800 PCI-E card and a USB 3 card if the MB doesn't have these ports.

I'd like at least 8GB RAM, maybe 12 or 16.

Thanks.

 

[ddrueding]

There are motherboards that are larger than ATX. I have several that won't fit in an Antec P183.

 

[LunarMist]

.

 

[LunarMist]

Thanks all.

First and foremost, while I welcome all comments, I am constrained by two factors:

a) Many items are just not available here; only the fast selling ones are. I'm sure there are boutique shops where one can find everything Newegg sells, but tracking these down across the country would be a pain. Most are local operators, not national, and very few have a web presence. This will be problematic since I may not be able to use a suggestion even if I want to.

b) The costs are generally much higher. I have to keep that in mind.

I wouldn't want a lower midrange machine; one of my goals is to use it for 5 years, so it has to be a lower or mid hi-end machine. Also I work with large files, and currently, scrolling a PDF file can be painfully slow and jerky. Why the creators don't optimize them, I don't understand. CPU is an AMD 2.4GHz X2, Radeon X1600 GPU, 2 MB RAM on XP.

Filters that are easily removable and cleanable are a must! I have no pets, and the floor is swept and wet-mopped at least once a day, twice on most days, but dust is a huge problem. I don't even mind cleaning the filters every Sunday, but it's a must. I also have a liking for larger cases since they are easier to work with. Can someone answer my question on motherboard size? Are they all ATX or smaller now?

I most definitely will not be using an SSD; I consider them bleeding edge at my location! Very few choices are available, all unheard of brands. I'd have to get someone visiting from the U.S. to get me one, and if I have problems with it, I'm SOL. At my age and impatience level, I just want a solid, reliable system. My days of overclocking are long gone (Celeron and P3 slot CPUs) !

In terms of timing, I can wait 9 - 12 months if it makes sense to do so.

I have no preference for Intel or AMD.

Not sure if I need a separate graphics card or not. I'd like the option to add one if I want to.

I'll need to install a FW 800 PCI-E card and a USB 3 card if the MB doesn't have these ports.

I'd like at least 8GB RAM, maybe 12 or 16.

Thanks.

I don't see how any of that precludes buying now, unless you really don't want to do so. Computers will always be faster and usually cheaper in the future.

 

[BingBangBop]

I run on the following basic philosophy: A purchase delayed is money saved.

If there is no need and you can easily wait then do so. It is likely that you'll get a better system and it probably will be cheaper. You'll also delay when the new machine needs to be replaced too. So it is a gift that keeps on giving.

That being said, if you need a new system then by all means purchase now. I don't see any reason to decrease productivity or even cause suffering from delayed gratification.

 

[mubs]

Points taken; purchase delayed is money saved; there's always something better yet to show up; if one keeps waiting one will never act, etc.

At this point I'm more concerned about the bugs and limitations in the SB chipsets. Don't want to end up with a lemon.

I had my eye on the i5 2500K, but I guess I'll just wait a bit.

Thanks everybody.

 

[Santilli]

The 2500K and the 2600K are pretty substantial improvements in speed, at near the same price points. However, they are pretty new. I'd wait a bit until the prices come down a bit, and they get all the bugs worked out on the new motherboards.

Also the motherboards seem to be kind of high priced right now.

 

[CougTek]

Their prices won't go down. See the i5 6x0 and i7 8x0 for instance. They still sell for pretty much the same amount of money they used to. You want a 2500K, be ready to shed out ~220$, right now or next year, it won't matter. As for the motherboards, same thing. The now obsolete H55-based motherboards are sold for approximately the same amount of printed-paper they used to. They will only become significantly cheaper when they will be significantly obsolete, like the LGA775 motherboards are nowadays. BTW, LGA1155 motherboards aren't that expensive. Expensive is LGA1366 (150$ and up). There's plenty of 90$-130$ decent motherboards for LGA1155 processors. That's not expensive, that's what a good, current-generation motherboard cost.

Waiting won't save you money if you want an LGA1155 platform. Memory is cheap now, it might not be in six months.

 

[Bozo]

You could also check Newegg's 'open box' section. That is where I got my P8B WS for $164.99.
There is a real glut of these 'open box' motherboards right now. I believe they are the ones return for the B3 upgrade. Mine came with everything in the box including a manual for the B3 version.
What makes me mad is I missed the P8P67 WS REVOLUTION when they had it for ~ $160.00. When I went to order they were gone so I bought the P8B WS.

 

[CougTek]

AFAIK, Newegg doesn't ship to India.

 

[mubs]

I didn't know there was a 2500k.

In terms of chipset, which one is best for these SB CPUs? I would like to have the option of putting in a video card; many reviews seem to state that the on board GPU can't handle Blue-Ray playback.

I'm also concerned about getting the correct, fixed revs of the chipset.

Coug is right, hardly anybody in the U.S. ships to India. Even if they do, I would be SOL if the item has a problem; it would be a nightmare to RMA and get a resolution. I'd be better off paying more buying from a local vendor.

 

[LunarMist]

I have a 2500K on a Z68A and it works very well.

 

[CougTek]

I'm also concerned about getting the correct, fixed revs of the chipset.

The Z68 chipset hasn't been recalled and doesn't seem to have any deal-breaking issue. Regarding the H67/P67 chipsets, the R3 revisions have been out for months and I haven't read any report of serious problem with them ever since the R3 version got out. I've used both the P67 and H67 with success so far on numerous builds and the customers have yet to complain.

The C206 chipset used on Bozo's P8B WS is probably even more robust, but the motherboard is an expensive piece. Peace of mind has its price.

 

[mubs]

Thanks Coug. Just for info, here's a sample of what's available and pricing. This is from one of the best websites for IT gear over here; may not have the best prices. If it doesn't explicitly say Rev B3, it probably isn't.

[FONT=Fixedsys]  Brand  Model              Chipset     FF     $
  [/FONT][FONT=Fixedsys]Intel  DH67VR                H67     mATX  $104
  [/FONT][FONT=Fixedsys]Intel  DH67BL                H67     mATX  $123
  [/FONT][FONT=Fixedsys]Asus   P8H67-M-LE            H67     mATX  $148
  [/FONT][FONT=Fixedsys]Asus   P8H67-V               H67     ATX   $181
  [/FONT][FONT=Fixedsys]Asus   P8H67-M PRO           H67     mATX  $186
  [/FONT][FONT=Fixedsys]Asus   P8P67-M               P67-B3  mATX  $200
  [/FONT][FONT=Fixedsys]Asus   P8H67-M EVO           H67     mATX  $205
  [/FONT][FONT=Fixedsys]Asus   P8P67-PRO             P67-B3  ATX   $291
  [/FONT][FONT=Fixedsys]Asus   Maximus IV GENE-Z     Z68     mATX  $293
  [/FONT][FONT=Fixedsys]Asus   P8Z68-V               Z68     ATX   $294
  [/FONT][FONT=Fixedsys]Asus   P8Z68-V-PRO           Z68     ATX   $324
  [/FONT][FONT=Fixedsys]Asus   SABERTOOTH            P67-B3  ATX   $337
  [/FONT][FONT=Fixedsys]Asus   P8P67-DELUXE          P67-B3  ATX   $375
  [/FONT][FONT=Fixedsys]Asus   P8Z68-Deluxe          Z68     ATX   $391
  [/FONT][FONT=Fixedsys]Asus   Maximus IV Extreme    P67     EATX  $530
  [/FONT][FONT=Fixedsys]Asus   Maximus IV Extreme-Z  Z68     EATX  $588
[/FONT]

I picked these motherboards out of the available ones on some simple criteria. I need to plug in a FW-800 PCI-E board. And a USB3 PCI-E board if the motherboard does not have USB 3 ports. Must have at least 6 SATA ports of any type. Must support 8GB or more RAM.

I would pair an appropriate motherboard with an i5-2500k that goes for $268.

All $ are US at current exchange rates (fairly stable).

If someone wants to be kind and suggests a particular combo of motherboard / processor / ram, I can call around and price it from other stores; I'm certain the price will be somewhat better than these guys.

Thanks a ton.

 

[CougTek]

In that list, those that stand out (for me at least) are the P8P67-M, P8P67 Pro, the Maximus IV GENE-Z and the 5-years-warranty Sabertooth P67.

Stick to Kingston RAM if available (much lower return rate). The KHX1600C9D3K2/8GX or KHX1600C9D3K4/16GX would be my choice for that box. They are not very expensive around here, but I don't know how many roupies they ask for them in your neck of the woods.

I use the P8P67-M in my main system at the shop, BTW. I didn't have money for the Maximus IV GENE-Z at the time. The latter has several more features, like two CPU fan connectors, internal USB 3.0 header, lot of additional UEFI options, etc. Opting for a µATX motherboard will let you use a smaller enclosure, if that's what you wish. If you go for a full ATX board, paying 46$ for an additional 2 years warranty makes the Sabertooth worth it over the P8P67 Pro IMO.

 

[mubs]

Thanks Coug. Since you're a system builder, your advice is valuable to me.

The Sabertooth is warranted at only 3 years here.

No luck on the Kingston RAM. I can always try to source it elsewhere, though.

The website I'm referring to is IT Depot, in case you're curious. One USD = 44.5 rupees.

For a computer parts dealer, they probably have the best site in India, and oddly, they are located in my city.