When to Build New System

[Pradeep]

I'm skeptical. As most everyone has posted, Bluray and AMD don't seem to go in the same sentence. Heck, HTPC and AMD don't seem to work, if ATI is in the equation.

I find it rather funny, and sad, that my HTPC, with a 9600, works better then the much faster, nearly twice, Supermicro, dual Xeon, with a 4670 in it.

It would be great if AMD/ATI actually got HTPC right...

They haven't yet...

Honestly Greg, I wouldn't call your experience with blu-ray and AMD to be a standard. Did you ever try playback before installing all the ripping/DRM removal stuff?

If you want streaming of DTS-MA of Tru-HD, AMD is the only choice (apart from overpriced PCI add-in boards).

 

[LunarMist]

What do the video cards have to do with anything? I will buy a basic, cool and quiet card that is suitable for 2D. Video cards and PCIe slots are not expected to change soon or are they?

 

[Santilli]

Honestly Greg, I wouldn't call your experience with blu-ray and AMD to be a standard. Did you ever try playback before installing all the ripping/DRM removal stuff?

If you want streaming of DTS-MA of Tru-HD, AMD is the only choice (apart from overpriced PCI add-in boards).

Pradeep:

I replaced a ATI 850 with a 9600 Sparkle. Video problems solved.

I should know better, but, I went from a 1650 to a 4670 on my Supermicro AGP, and, artifacts were the norm, not the exception.

Same software runs great on Nvidia. And yes, I have a highend, Explosion sound card in the HTPC, and it works great.


The Beast is the solution to all this stuff. Sound system works, 37" works, PowerDVD Ultra 9, probably the REAL problem, works great with Nvidia cards.

We REALLY need a Bluray player other then PowerDVD 9 Ultra...

I'm not the only one here that has decided Nvidia is the way to go for video and HTPC stuff...

 

[Stereodude]

Uh... There's one from Arcsoft. Arcsoft TotalMedia Theater 3.

 

[Santilli]

Uh... There's one from Arcsoft. Arcsoft TotalMedia Theater 3.

Any good? How much, and, have you tried it?

 

[Handruin]

The new Core i7 930 (2.8GHz) is available at a decent price at $249 if you have a microcenter near you. Newegg wants a premium $299.

 

[MaxBurn]

Maybe even lower than that:
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1499779
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1499034

 

[Handruin]

Nice find! Temping...very tempting. March 8th is right around the corner.

 

[Mercutio]

The new Core i7 930 (2.8GHz) is available at a decent price at $249 if you have a microcenter near you. Newegg wants a premium $299.

I still have a $200 i7 920 sitting here from the last time THOSE were on sale.

Anyway, one thing to bear in mind is that the majority of the advantage of having an i5 or i7 are the architectural changes that come from getting an i5 or i7. I'm not sure anybody who has a current Intel i-series chip is going to realize some huge gain from moving to a newer one, any more than moving between CPUs in the same product line has ever (well, OK, in the last 10 years, anyway) led to massive performance gains.

If you're on an i5 or i7 (I haven't built an i3 yet), it seems like the next thing to do would be to put your money in an SSD, and if you have an SSD, you probably want a larger one. If your SSD is big enough and you have an i-series chip, I'm thinking you're probably done spending money on that computer.

 

[Handruin]

I'm not looking to migrate to this CPU from my current i7, but rather build a second machine using this i930.

 

[ddrueding]

The bigger projects tend to go with their own hardware (some at primary, some at off site for DR). The stakeholders want the new shiny, being told they are just one of a dozen VM containers on a box that's been sitting in the DC for years is not an option).

That is why I don't tell them

 

[Mercutio]

I'm not looking to migrate to this CPU from my current i7, but rather build a second machine using this i930.

Fair enough.

 

[ddrueding]

If your SSD is big enough and you have an i-series chip, I'm thinking you're probably done spending money on that computer.

Watercooling

 

[MaxBurn]

I'm wondering if it is worth upgrading from my Q9650, still thinking no but that six core might be enough of a jump to do it.

 

[Mercutio]

Watercooling

I've never met anyone who has done watercooling once who was willing to build a second system that way.

 

[ddrueding]

There are the hardcore WC/OC geeks, but other than them, I know of no one who has done watercooling. I've never done it, so it is tempting just from an experience perspective.

 

[Stereodude]

I did it once for my 2.4gHz P4 OC'd to 3.0 (later replaced by a 3.06gHz HT P4) because the coolers of the day were all super noisy.

 

[Mercutio]

Some of the gamers I know seem to have it. It's delicate and requires more attention than most people seem to want to put into the inside of a PC. Maybe it's not a big deal if you're changing parts every two weeks.

 

[Pradeep]

I'm skeptical. As most everyone has posted, Bluray and AMD don't seem to go in the same sentence. Heck, HTPC and AMD don't seem to work, if ATI is in the equation.

I find it rather funny, and sad, that my HTPC, with a 9600, works better then the much faster, nearly twice, Supermicro, dual Xeon, with a 4670 in it.

It would be great if AMD/ATI actually got HTPC right...

They haven't yet...

I know you have had serious issues with Macs and horrible bus performance for onboard connections, take a look at this:

http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/3160/asus_m4a89gtd_pro_usb3_amd_890gx_motherboard/index2.html

http://www.tweaktown.com/popImg.php?type=content&img=3160_52_full.png

 

[Stereodude]

I suppose I should point out that I wouldn't build another watercooled PC, and I eventually converted the P4 rig back to air cooling after it was no longer my primary workstation.

 

[Santilli]

I know you have had serious issues with Macs and horrible bus performance for onboard connections, take a look at this:

http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/3160/asus_m4a89gtd_pro_usb3_amd_890gx_motherboard/index2.html

http://www.tweaktown.com/popImg.php?type=content&img=3160_52_full.png

One good reason to go X-58.

 

[Santilli]

My favorite cpu coolers were made by SwiftTech. Sadly they haven't made any for the newer cpus, and have only water cooling stuff for current cpus.

 

[Pradeep]

Something to stress out your new beast Greg:

http://www.maxon.net/index.php?id=162&L=0

 

[LunarMist]

Well, I am so glad to have started this thread.

 

[Handruin]

I tried to give some feedback...

 

[Handruin]

My favorite cpu coolers were made by SwiftTech. Sadly they haven't made any for the newer cpus, and have only water cooling stuff for current cpus.

There are a lot of options these days with more advanced cooling abilities. It looks like swiftech hasn't moved out of the sold blocks of metal stages with screws stuck into the top.

 

[Mercutio]

I guess to redirect back to LM's question, I'd build a system when I need one and follow the usual generic advice of buying most of my parts one or two steps down from whatever the best thing I could buy on that particular day, because that's usually the sweet spot for pricing.

I wouldn't wait for new tech, because there's always new tech coming. Sometimes I do set a benchmark for what will make me pull the trigger on an upgrade ("Can I get an i7 for $200?"), but for somebody for whom a new system is more of an event, I guess I'd at least wait to see another revision of Intel motherboard chipsets. Since the next Intel CPUs will just be a refinement on current chips, I can't see holding off just for THAT.

 

[Santilli]

Well, I am so glad to have started this thread.

I did too. You already have a very fast setup. 4559 at 3.0 ghz on Passmark, plus, you have a 25% overclock. That should put it at around 5700, or so. An i975 is going to run around 7000, or you could go with a 1550 dollar 5590 Xeon. That would get you 7200.

It appears that the way to go is the 1366 socket. Since you have run such a high overclock,
about 8 gigs of premium 2200 ram, some sort of trick cooler, all seem like reasonable suggestions. I wonder if you'll notice any of this, given you already have a very fast setup.

I suggested a motherboard that is dual 1366 capable. You could start with one Xeon, and, if that doesn't work for you, go for another. The only way to really get a big speed jump for you is going to be going to dual processors, or, perhaps the 6 core processors when they come out.

The new AMD dual, and 6 core processors might be worth looking at as well.

Handurin really answered your question gave you a road map:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Handruin View Post
You may want to go the path of 1336 and lean towards the 32nm Gulftown when it becomes readily available. Gulftown should be out the first half of 2010 unless if it gets delayed. The name will rumored to be Intel Core i9 giving you 6 cores and 12 execution threads with 50% more L3 cache over current i7 CPUs.
Will there be other Gulftown CPUs besides the Core i7 980EX? The Intel Extreme CPUs are usually ~$1K.

I don't really get why you are bummed the processor is a 1000 dollars, when you set a 2000
dollar budget for ram, cpu, and motherboard.

Also, you gave very little information on the function this computer is going to do.

David has been complaining that Intel hasn't come up with anything faster for awhile as well.

Merc's advice is sound, in that it appears the 1366 will be upgradeable down the road, though the motherboard makers may or may not include support for the 6 core chips.

The problem I see is if you follow his advice, you are almost going sideways. You are already faster then the i7 920 speed (5589), though they are supposed to be easily overclockable.

I don't really see a budget replacement setup that is going to be faster then what you have.

This was and is an excellent thread, mainly thanks to Handurin, and his posts on Intels'
plans for the next year or so. REALLY HELPFUL HANDURIN. THANK YOU.

 

[Santilli]

It also appears 3.2 ghz is about as fast as you are going to get a 920 to run. That should put it at about 6700 passmark, or, 1000 points faster then your current setup.
What, 14% improvement?

 

[Mercutio]

I'm sitting at a 3.8GHz i7/920 right now. I ran it at 4GHz for about 10 days before it BSOD'd the first time. I could probably push it back up now that I have a high end aftermarket cooler on it.

 

[Santilli]

I'm sitting at a 3.8GHz i7/920 right now. I ran it at 4GHz for about 10 days before it BSOD'd the first time. I could probably push it back up now that I have a high end aftermarket cooler on it.

Would you run passmark on it? That should be fun...

 

[Santilli]

Mercutio's i7 920 is running nearly 25% faster then the 975.

I guess that's about the best bang for the buck setup you could ever want, short of dual processors, and an enterprise class motherboard...

 

[ddrueding]

I would say it is the best bang/buck including dual procs and any motherboard.

Most apps are still single-threaded, and some can use 2 cores. Above 4 cores is just a waste for nearly everyone for at least the next several years. There is no way you will get Merc's level of per-core horsepower out of a server board, as OC'ing isn't supported and they don't sell chips that fast.

(...and I'm not just saying that because I have a nearly identical system)

 

[Santilli]

OK: I was close.;-)

David and Mercutio:
What ram are you using?
What settings are you using?

Does OCing the processor throw other areas of the computer into out of sync/standard settings?

Thanks

GS

 

[ddrueding]

OCing does throw other stuff out of spec unless you have an EE CPU with an unlocked multiplier. Because of this my RAM and other settings are pretty much stock.

 

[Santilli]

So, this means just increasing the cpu speed? Can I do that with the 940?

 

[udaman]

2. I did too. You already have a very fast setup. 4559 at 3.0 ghz on Passmark, plus, you have a 25% overclock.

1. Also, you gave very little information on the function this computer is going to do.



3. This was and is an excellent thread, mainly thanks to Handurin, and his posts on Intels'
plans for the next year or so. REALLY HELPFUL HANDURIN. THANK YOU.

3. Well, as I tell LM...Google is ur friend, roadmaps are pretty easy to come up with, fairly fast...least U want someone to spoon feed U .

2. Passmark, kind of like Eugene and I-O-meter...synthetic 'pretend' real world metrics are just that.

1. Bingo, this is both dd's & LM's standard MO...it's left there for the customary social networking 'vetting' many single line posts process. Kind of like techy online dating/foreplay

What is really important is all of the ancillary hardware/firmware to be used, and what *software* needs to be used with that gear. Failing LM telling us that, we're just guessing for his 'fun'... end of story. Is he using this planned upgrade/new system for multi-processor aware s/w, if so does he need speed for single cpu legacy s/w, how much of a blend/compromise does he want to engage in?

Does he want to be able to upgrade to the max, or just have some upgrade capability on that system? Depending on how long he has the system, he might need something that can take *much* more RAM than what we think we need now. then again, every few years or so the new RAM is incompatible, won't run as fast on an older system...just keep buying new stuff every year like SD

Certainly for LM, who *will* be getting SATA 6GBs SSD's, it would be best to have motherboard included USB3.0 & SATA 6GBs. Then again, if he's going to be RAIDin them, a host adapter board is in his future . Sometimes the controller for the onboard USB or SATA implementation is slower than a HBA, YMMV...those of us that remember those problems with older USB & Firewire controller chips.

Then we have LM saying what has the GPU got to do with it...err, LM...do U perhaps use Photoshop or other image editing s/w? (rhetorical Q)...then the GPU that is hardware/firmware/drivers setup to work with the CPU on said s/w is *very* important. It's not just gaming where the GPU can be used to speed up the s/w.

Again, Google is Ur friend, if U haven't been reading up on this now *old* change of events in computing that has been going on for more than a year.

As to what Eugene said, go read his mantra, should still be up there under the old test articles...neither of the representations above are accurate

 

[Mercutio]

What ram are you using?
What settings are you using?

I don't remember exact BIOS settings. All told I probably spent five or six hours screwing around with voltages and timings. I read a Newegg reviews for tips and then went afield for discussions specific to overclocking with the board I'm using (Gigabyte UD5 or UD6P - I have one of each for 1366 and 1156).

My RAM is a set of Corsair Dominator 2GB DDR3-2000 modules. I think I'm running them at 1.7v?

As far as benchmark wanking, if I happen to think about it I'll run it before I feed the next stack of DVDs into Handbrake.

 

[LunarMist]

i7-980X is rather expensive.

 

[ddrueding]

That is about spot-on for the current extreme-edition chip. I paid $999 for my 3.2Ghz EE.