Stereodude
Not really a
RUN AWAY!!!
Their amps are a good value. I wouldn't wish one of their pre-processors on my worst enemy.
Audio Equipment
- Thread starter ddrueding
- Start date
Their amps are a good value. I wouldn't wish one of their pre-processors on my worst enemy.
Stereodude
Not really a
The situation probably isn't that dire with power sharing in that receiver. You're not going to get 100W x 7 all channels driven, but it's 200W/x per channel either.
Still, your idea to get a receiver with preouts is a good idea. Then if you want an amplifier down the road you can add one. If not, then you're all set.
Stereodude
Not really a
A watt is a watt is a watt. The topology differences have slight theoretical differences, but you're not likely to hear them in a properly designed amp.
Yeah, the thought would be to get an amplifier with lots of clean power output so it's loafing along even when you have your system cranked. However, a properly designed amplifier that's operating within it's limits (not driven to the point of distortion) will sound pretty much like any other operating under the same conditions.
fb
Storage is cool
I must be crazy, because I just thought that my new amp sound MUCH better than my old one - and it took about two seconds listening to the children's channel at moderate volume to reach that conclusion.
Pradeep
Storage? I am Storage!
The logic is that power amp tech doesn't evolve all that fast, whereas new revision to HDMI seem to come out fairly often. Most power amps have larger transformers/caps, and generally don't have as many compromises as a receiver.
Howell
Storage? I am Storage!
Stereodude
Not really a
I'm sensing the general consensus is that an amplifier is only useful to increase the volume of the sound and nothing else is worth having an amp for because the difference is practically audibly indistinguishable. Is that a fair assessment?
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
That's been my impression for a long time, yes.
Audio stuff is tough because there's so damned much pseudoscience crap out. In the end it's all subjective. Don't buy stuff just because someone else thinks it's awesome. That person might be a nutjob who thinks wooden handles make amplifiers sound better.
Audio stuff is tough because there's so damned much pseudoscience crap out. In the end it's all subjective. Don't buy stuff just because someone else thinks it's awesome. That person might be a nutjob who thinks wooden handles make amplifiers sound better.
I know you mentioned having an expensive receiver, so at what point do you (or did you) determine it was adequate enough without trying vast amounts of them? Based on this entire sub conversation of amplification and pre-processing, that makes me think that the SR608 I bought should be perfectly fine to run my home theater and music listening. With exception to having pre-amp outs, it has all the features I wanted and need. I think it sounds fine with my current speakers since I haven't yet been able to try it with the new ones. Why do people (such as yourself) spend $2000 on receivers if something like a $350 receiver can functionally do most of the same with exception to total wattage output?
BingBangBop
Storage is cool
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2009
- Messages
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I can't say about home audio, or for that matter the tech may have changed since I bought in '96, but with my car I bought rather expensive MacIntosh amps because I could distinctly hear a difference. The difference may be small compared to differences in speakers, but it was definitely there when isolating for just the amps. P.S. it wan't just a decibel level difference. It is hard to describe but the MacIntosh amps (at the same volume) sounded clearer; it wasn't as mushy; individual instruments were easier to distinguish then their competition.
So I vote that Amps matter.
One nice thing about the amps is that it's been 15 years but I can see on Ebay that used MacIntosh amps go for more that I paid new.
So I vote that Amps matter.
One nice thing about the amps is that it's been 15 years but I can see on Ebay that used MacIntosh amps go for more that I paid new.
Mercutio
Fatwah on Western Digital
I tried a whole bunch of amps and preamps and a bunch of receivers. I went to audio-specialty stores in and around Chicago after I had exhausted the selection at giant electronics chains. I had a mix CD with eight or nine tracks in a variety of styles I'm extremely familiar with and did a lot of A/B comparisons using the brand of speakers I was already planning to buy.
When I got to the point of having a short list of equipment that I felt subjectively offered the best sound for the money, I started looking at distinguishing features and in the end the Integra receiver I have now is what I took home.
fb
Storage is cool
No, the amp don't have a problem, it still plays music better than most modern amps. It's just lacks in control and details in the music compared to the new one.
I decided to keep the SR608. So far the three speakers sound really good together with the power the receiver has. I actually like the smaller of the two center channel speakers (CMC) better than the larger one (CMC2). The larger one seems to be too bassy for my liking. Even with the smaller CMC center, I noticed a huge difference in watching movies. The subtle details are so much more noticeable. Things like doors squeaking or heels clicking on the floor. I'm also using the port plug in my mains. I guess due to the limited distance I can have them from my walls, it was causing a little extra boominess, so using the plugs has helped tighten that up. Now that the bass is so much tighter and cleaner, I don't enjoy my subwoofer as much any more.
fb
Storage is cool
Are you running your speakers in single-amped or bi-amped configuration? I've read on another forum about someone that bi-amped his CM9's with a 608 and he was very happy with the end result. He hadn't tried single-amp configuration though, so I don't know how big difference it makes, but it might be worth a look.
ddrueding
Fixture
Excuse my ignorance, but how would you bi-amp with a 608? It doesn't have active crossovers or the ability to assign extra amp channels to L/C/R?
Stereodude
Not really a
Some receivers (not sure about the 608) will let you duplicate the Front L & R to the 6th and 7th channel, so you can send the same signal out twice, run 4 wires to your speakers and power the woofer and tweeter separately. This requires the speakers have two separate crossovers.
The benefit of this is largely limited. Bi-amping with an active crossover and removing at least some of the passive crossover components from your speakers is much more beneficial.
The benefit of this is largely limited. Bi-amping with an active crossover and removing at least some of the passive crossover components from your speakers is much more beneficial.
ddrueding
Fixture
Gotcha. Thanks.
fb
Storage is cool
The principle is like Stereodude said, the details are described in the manual.
But It's a free upgrade, and while it isn't as good as an active setup it's still better than nothing. I don't even think that B&W sell active crossovers for use with their speakers?
But It's a free upgrade, and while it isn't as good as an active setup it's still better than nothing. I don't even think that B&W sell active crossovers for use with their speakers?
I currently have them setup with a single amp connection. I will try the bi-amp feature once I order me some speaker wire. I don't have enough laying around right now to try it. I am not expecting a big difference with my SR608, but I was planning on trying it to see if it makes any difference.
The 608 does have the feature like SD described. There is an option in the menu to assign the 6th and 7th channel for bi-amping the main L&R just like SD mentioned. Since I don't have those 6th and 7th speakers right now, I figured I could try it and see if I notice any difference. I might be able to do some limited cross over capabilities right through the 608 since it lets me set cutoffs for different speakers. I don't know if the CM9s have separate crossovers. The wire posts on the back of the speaker do have specific markings for hi and low, but that could be so I'm aware how to wire a crossover.
I need to bow my head in shame for the idiot thing I just did. :-x I've been listening to the new speakers for about a week now and I've noticed the bass to be lacking. I've calibrated things, moved speakers around, added/removed the port plugs. Something just seemed slightly off. I pulled the receiver out of my entertainment center and checked wires and sure enough I connected the banana connector backwards for the right speaker which in turn was driving it out of phase from the left. Now that it's correctly connected...HUGE difference in bass and imagine. Ugh...
Around 1970 tried to connect the two channels of a Marantz power amp together to double up on the power. Of course there was only one right way to do it, and with a 50% chance you can guess what happened. :cursin:
ddrueding
Fixture
fb
Storage is cool
B&Ws designs only leave room for bi-wiring/bi-amping, even in their really expensive high end models. But it's probably more of a theoretical problem since they keep producing some of the best speakers in the world. Besides, it usually gets ridiculously expensive as soon as you start thinking about proper activation.
Where did you end up buying from?
I can really hear how well they've separated the frequencies in the crossovers. I'm still driving them with a single wire (not bi-amped). I have a music CD that is specific to playing bass that I was demoing. Within this music, they also have plenty of mids and highs. It sounds all computer or electronic generated, but regardless, I can really tell that the these speakers are like two in one. The tweeter and FST mid-range are really clean and clear even when there is enormous amounts of bass playing. They don't seem to be over-burdened by the extreme bass and remain clean and clear even while in the same speaker cabinet.
ddrueding
Fixture
The Egg. $550
fb
Storage is cool
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ddrueding
Fixture
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fb
Storage is cool
Maybe I should have elaborated a bit further?
(What really happened was that my girlfriend sent the message before I was finished and there was no delete button... so I removed the content.)Anyway, what I had started to write was that Handruin could try and disconnect the sub completely, and maybe even remove it from the listening room completely just to see what happens, I'm not sure myself. My guess is that even if there's a bit less bass, the music as a whole and the bass that's there might get a bit better.
How can I confirm if my onboard sound card on my Gigabyte GA-P55M-UD4 is capable of playing a 24BIT/96kHz flac file without down sampling it? The on-board audio is using the Realtek ALC889A. I have a few flac files that I've downloaded from high resolution music and when I play them, both foobar and winamp show the correct sample rate and bit depth. If my speakers are connected via analog outputs from my sound card, am I really getting the full resolution?
CougTek
Hairy Aussie
Use the equipment each side of your head. If you're satisfied with the result, then wether it is downsampling or not is of little importance. Like Merc said before, if it goes out of a cheapo integrated sound chip (what the Realtek is), the audio has been molested.
Do you have a dedicated sound card in extra? Even an old Sound Blaster Live! 5.1 or Audigy would do. If you do, try it and compare the output with the integrated sound. You should hear a difference. My point being that your integrated Realtek won't give you a really good audio even under the best circumstances.
I was just curious if the audio was being down sampled and how it was possible to tell from within the OS and applications. I don't have any other dedicated sound card to try. I also wasn't looking to make my desktop any kind of HTPC, I was just playing around. Is something like this M-Audio Transit a decent way to get the audio processing out of the PC?
Stereodude
Not really a
What OS?
Stereodude
Not really a
If you use WASAPI as your output device in Foobar2k you should definitely get unmolested audio.