[url=http://www.storageforum.net/forum/showpost.php?p=147651&postcount=34]Bozo[/url] said:Time, the computers I build go into an industrial enviorment; dirt, dirt, and more dirt. Also, because we convert AC to DC (and in some cases back to AC) all the SCR switching and power factors that approach 20%, our computers take a beating. We also pump DC back into the AC line through SCRs when the DC motors 're-gen'. A 'scope trace on our 120v line looks like a wooly worm (hairy catapiller). I have used nothing but Antec power supplies for 10 years now with great success. I have had a few fail, but it is usually after they have been running 24/7/365 for 5-6 years, mostly failing because of the dirt.
And, 95% are not on a UPS.
My hardware failures for this year so far are: 5 Supermicro motherboards, 1 power supply - Antec, and 2 hard drives - Seagate.
[url=http://www.storageforum.net/forum/showpost.php?p=147653&postcount=35]Time[/url] said:Thanks Bozo, that's more what I'm after - except that Antec has several different models made by three different manufacturers. According to the return stats, their most reliable model is the 400W Basiq that's made by FSP. The 650W Earthwatts is from Delta and was (relatively) the least reliable of their bulk sellers. I don't understand why the more common 380 and 430W Earthwatts aren't in the list; either they don't sell in Europe or none fail?
The Neo 400 reported must be a Neo Eco, which is a cousin of the original Seasonic Earthwatts. We know it did well - in the first 6-12 months of its life anyway!
Any idea what your current crop of Antecs is made up of?
[url=http://www.storageforum.net/forum/showpost.php?p=147692&postcount=36]Bozo[/url] said:I have been using 350W to 650W 80+ power supplies for the last 3-4 years. I keep three spares in stock now. 2-MT350 (or MT352) for the minuete cases, and 3 or 4 Earthwatts 430w and 1 Earthwatts 650W. This covers everything I have installed. ~175 computers.
Also, 99% of my cases are Antec, so a lot of them came with power supplies. Mostly the 380W versions.
The early Minuete cases with the MT300 and the early MT350 power supplies had a lot of failures.
I had an Antec power supply (I don't remember the number, but it had removable cables) that wouldn't work with some Intel motherboards.
Nothings perfect. I bought 15 Supermicro motherbooards and 5 died within 6 months.
I am now replacing some older Intel motherboards with swollen capacitors. I have 33 Intel D915GEV motherboards in the plant that die without warning, and the capacitors look fine.
And, I had one Antec power supply that was dead out of the box.
In the last three years the failure rate on most computer parts has dropped. Probably because of the better capacitors, in the better equipment.
Absolutely right.During the last four years, I must have sold between 150 and 200 In Win enclosures with an included 350W powersupply. The model they provide with the case changed last year. I have yet to have a single return on these.
Last year, I've started to sell Sparkle SPI350ACA8 power supplies. Certified 80Plus Bronze, they cost me less than 40$. I probably sold ~50 of those so far. Once again, not a single return.
Yet, they placed those two brands in the "to avoid" category. So take this list VERY lightly. It doesn't seem to have been made by people who sell a significant volume of components. I certainly don't have anywhere near the volume that NewEgg has, but with over 200 sales with the concerned components, I definetly have more than an average Joe picture of what's reliable and what isn't.
That was ambiguous. What I meant was that I try a few different brands and models in the desired price range (low!) until I find one that seems to go OK. Then I stick to it for as long as it stays available or until I see too many failures, mostly the former.a cheap one for small jobs ...... I just try a few till I find one that goes OK and then stick to it until further notice.
Dell and HP probably do, but only for the duration of their nominal warranty. So if it's a choice between a PSU that costs $30 and lasts 3 years, versus a PSU that costs $20 but lasts 13 months, which do you think will get the nod?Does anyone keep those types of records?
I wonder if the difference in experience comes from the regional difference in electrical systems.I'm not sure where you guys are getting love for FSP power supplies. I seem to toss them pretty regularly. They're not PSUs that I buy, just the ones that happen to be in machines that I service. I see them in lots of OEM machines. And then I take them out and replace them with whatever I've purchased most recently purchased to use for replacement power supplies.
I'm generally not using the super-low end ones. There are some really crummy ones that are made out of solid air (much like the PSU Tannin linked to, which apparently weighs 0kg if the specs page is to be believed), and there are modest and unassuming mid-range models. HEC has a nice, reliable 350W PSU that I can sometimes get for $30 with a heft that's on par with some of the nicer mid-range PSUs we've been discussing.I actually avoided those super-low-end HEC models; you know, where they can't even afford a fan grill so airflow's about a third of what it should be.
Clearly, there's some kind of differentiation in the products. I have no idea what it is, but I can certainly tell what I'm pulling out when I'm doing a replacement.As for Sparkle and Antec Basiq, they're genuine Fortron Source (FSP) products
I mean why? Why do you go from around $60 for a nice plain PSU direct to $160 for then next size up? It just doesn't make sense. Is black paint really that dear?
The top-tier PSUs weigh 50% more than the middle guys. Black paint and gold trim must be very heavy.
All good points, Tazwegion, but none of them answer my question.
Why is there this massive gap in the market? Sure, you go up from one model to another, but ... let's put it this way: if PSUs were meals, you'd be going from airline meal to roadhouse feed to counter meal or good, plain home cooking ..... then straight to $300 a plate haute cuisine. WTF happens in-between? There is NOTHING!
I quite often want something just as reliable as the excellent little Rock 500W units I sell (linked to earlier in this thread), but with (say) 40% more power available. Sure, I can get that ..... but at 240% of the price!
Still, at least I get free black paint and gold trim with it. I shouldn't complain.
Oh no. There is no shortage of good, reliable cheap(ish) PSUs. Sure, you have to try a few till you get a brand that does what you need, but we have pretty much never had an issue sourcing good, reliable, trustworthy PSUs for everyday use in everyday systems.I get where you're coming from as to why there's no widely available quality (un-blinged) reliable generic PSU's about
This post is intended to help anyone who happens to read this. I'm not singling out Tannin for a lecture - it's just a good example of how confused people are about power supplies, so please take this in the spirit in which it was intended.I quite often want something just as reliable as the excellent little Rock 500W units I sell (linked to earlier in this thread), but with (say) 40% more power available. Sure, I can get that ..... but at 240% of the price!
Oh no. There is no shortage of good, reliable cheap(ish) PSUs. Sure, you have to try a few till you get a brand that does what you need, but we have pretty much never had an issue sourcing good, reliable, trustworthy PSUs for everyday use in everyday systems.
Exactly... end users can easily get swept up into thinking they need a higher wattage PSU when in fact all they really require is something capable of sustaining higher amperage on the 12v line(s) to power those beastly GPU & drive intensive installations etc.time said:Very, very few people truly need 48A, let alone nearly 60A. Similarly, less than one in 10,000 need a 750W PSU. But that's where the bling comes in ...
IIRC, peak efficiency for a PSU is at 50% load? So my 1200W PSUs sucking 580W of juice are ideal? Good to know at least two of these things are being used where they should be.
You were the 1 in 10,000 I was thinking of.IIRC, peak efficiency for a PSU is at 50% load? So my 1200W PSUs sucking 580W of juice are ideal? Good to know at least two of these things are being used where they should be.
Here's where I eat humble pie. The user called before to tell me that it's light's out for that computer. Obviously, I suspect the FSP power supply. So in all probability, I need to defer to Mercutio's opinion. :bow:I used a lowish cost FSP (not 80Plus) recently to fix a 4-year-old computer, recognizing that it only had to last a year or two, and with reasonable confidence that it won't destroy the rest of the PC if it does fail.
Here's where I eat humble pie. The user called before to tell me that it's light's out for that computer. Obviously, I suspect the FSP power supply. So in all probability, I need to defer to Mercutio's opinion. :bow: