Ever wanted to know the thoughts of car fans?

[Howell]

Then on the way back, something went off with a bang in my door; turns out to be the power window stuff. Won't go up, and comes down on it's own. I had to grab it between my fingers and yank it up.

Lemme guess, the motor seems to make the proper noises (ie. it operates) but the glass does not respond. And the lemme also guess that the loud noise you heard was the window free falling to the bottom of the track.

I have this problem currently. It used to be that the rear window motors did not work (Yes the rear windows work in this coupe.) and the passenger window was pinned in the up position. Last week one of the rear windows fell with a clunk to the bottom of the track and the driver's front window's mounting hardware vibrated loose. Thus, I start looking for a replacement while I repair this one.

If your problem is the same as mine I can help you out.

 

[Mercutio]

One of my cousins has a ~1978 Volvo 240 with 580,000 miles on it. He commutes from Fithian, Illinois (the small town where I grew up) to Decatur, Illinois. I don't know exactly how far that is. Far enough.
The thing is, that car is in perfect mechanical condition. I think the most work he had done was replacing a blown head gasket.
Every time there's a major family gathering, he shows up with this rust-colored (there are some body issues, and the rust isn't all the paint job) thing while a number of uncles, cousins and other assorted family members stand around and marvel at how well the thing is holding up.

 

[mubs]

Howell, thanks for the offer of help. The weird thing is that when the "bang" happened, I was going ~90 MPH, and the window did not come down then, and is still fully intact and not cracked/broken as much as I can see of it. I reached my destination, and when I tried to put the window down, it came down with a lot of noise, so I let go of the switch, paused, and tried to put it back up, but it wouldn't. At that point, the window was held up with friction, I guess. When I parked for the night, I pulled the window up all the way up, but it the morning, it had come down by half on its own. I drove back 470 miles with wind noise because it never stayed flush with the top. Yes, now I hear noise when I operate the switch, but the window does not move. I understand that even if the motor is working, it is sometimes integrated with the crank mechanism and so the whole thing may have to be replaced. I'd do the job myself, but I'm a bit of a clutz, and taking off the door panel and putting it back on scares me more than replacing the power window mechanism itself!

Mercutio, it always amazes me how some vehicles run for so long. Statistically, maybe that one car ended up with perfect mechanicals at the factory, and if properly taken care of, is more durable than vehicles not so lucky to get a perfect fit. Prior to this car, I had a Honda Civic for 8 years that I put 175k miles on. While mechanically it was falling apart fast, its body was ok. This Camry now is the opposite; it still beats the pants off my wife's 1999 Civic with 13k miles on it. But I was shocked to find rust spots on the roof above the passenger area. I thought contemporary cars (especially the non-cheapo ones) had better metal pre-treatment and paint. The car has been garaged all its life, except for the year I was away when it sat in a vacant lot with a good quality car cover on it.

Incidentally, when I got back, I had the car towed to the nearest dealer (the battery was d-e-a-d, and I was sure the engine oil had turned back into crude). On the way, the tow truck took the freeway at 65 MPH. Later, the dealership called to tell me "Honest, when we popped the good open, a hare jumped out and ran off. He's chewed up most of the hoses in the engine compartment". The poor guy made his home in the engine compartment, and got the ride of his life! He also got separated from his family. Dumb me, I didn't think to pop the hood open and make noises to scare off anything that may have been inside. But you'd think with people standing around talking, a noisy diesel-engine tow truck and all that, he would have taken off on his own.

 

[Howell]

I understand that even if the motor is working, it is sometimes integrated with the crank mechanism and so the whole thing may have to be replaced. I'd do the job myself, but I'm a bit of a clutz, and taking off the door panel and putting it back on scares me more than replacing the power window mechanism itself!

Yeah sometimes they are integrated. Clutz! Say no more. Actually, a little while after I posted I had the thought that some people might not be keen to tear into their own car. Then there is the whole issue of cost effectiveness.

 

[Handruin]

Something clicked this weekend while Laura and I were out looking at cars for her. While we were at the dealership, I decided to test drive a couple cars.

I noticed online that Acura had a financing deal on my present car (CL-S) so I figured, why not get a new car for the same amount per month. This way I get a new warranty and the 6-speed manual I've been craving.

So we crunched some numbers and it turned out to be $3 more a month and this would get me a 2003 car + a 6-speed and on top of that navigation.

Hmm...

So I began to investigate one more car before signing anything. I took out the all new 2004 TSX for a test drive and loved it. The 6 speed tranny is one of the best I've driven so far. To make a long story short, I ended up buying the 2004 TSX in carbon gray perl with a 6-speed manual and navigation for cheaper than what I have now.

Being that this car is so new (came out in april) the salesman told me today that they located me a car, it just came out of manufacturing and is on it's way from Japan. (It could alread be in the states for all I know) In about 2 weeks I'll be picking up a new car.

 

[mubs]

Looks way cool, Doug! And I'm sure it has better than the fabulous Honda handling. Enjoy, and post your comments back!

 

[Howell]

Snif. I wanna new car. *pout*

 

[e_dawg]

There is something magical about a new car... Wonderful news, Doug! (I feel like I'm congratulating someone on a newborn or something )

You know, I have secretly grown fonder of the Acura 3.2's and the new TSX very much since we last discussed them (that's the great part about these fora; they prevent you from being closed-minded). The styling still doesn't stir my soul as much as some of my other favourites, but I very much admire what an excellent car it is in virtually every way. In fact, I was even contemplating trading my Jetta in for a TSX when I saw one up close and personal in Toronto. If it had the 3.2 engine as an option (drool), I would be uploading pics of the TSX in my driveway as we speak.

 

[Mercutio]

I don't get new cars.

You're throwing down minimum $15k (and probably more like $25k if want something that's decent) for something that's only worth $15k until the second you drive it off the lot . That's a substantial chunk of the cost of a HOUSE. All that car does is consume. Gas, oil changes, tires. Those costs aren't less for the car being new.

So you've got a new car. It's new for three or six months, until the next model year comes out, or some ass in a parking lot does something that might best be described as inevitable.

It doesn't make any sense to me that people want to get themselves into that.

 

[Fushigi]

Why buy a new car?

1. Warranty with no deductable. If something breaks, I get it fixed and my only hassle is the time. On a used car, I'm out time & money. Not much of a concern when a screw comes loose but my former car, a Mazda, blew out the trans with only 36K miles. $2200 for a rebuilt + rental car for 2 weeks while the parts came in.

2. That something 'magical'. New cars always feel, look, and smell special. This doesn't matter to everyone, but it does to many (if only on the subconscious level).

3. Potential for getting better efficiency, safety, ergonomics. Improved safety is a big one for me. Improved efficiency has allowed me to move from a subcompact to a midsize without sacrificing mileage. Early 90s ATs were 3 speeds; many are 5 speeds now (better efficiency). Generally, newer cars are more comfortable than older cars, especially when compared to used cars that have wear on the seats and suspension.

4. 0% financing. 0.5% when I bought my 99 new, but 0% is common nowadays. Generally used car financing is 3-6% above new car financing.

5. Peace of mind from knowing what you're buying hasn't been abused. Different people treat their cars differently. From flooring the pedal for every launch to skipping some recommended maintenance, you just don't know how a used car has been maintained. (If buying used, never buy a used sports car or rental car)

6. Status. Face it, many folks want a stylish car that doesn't look old fashioned. Over the past few years it's been towards the big bold look of SUVs, but that seems to be finally fading in favor of a return to coupes and modern station wagons (a.k.a. 'crossover' vehicles). 'Tis a cyclical thing.

For me, it's reasons 1-5. I'm not a status seeker or I would have bought a different vehicle. Because cars do break, having a warranty is nice. My car has side ABS + front & side airbags; the prior generation didn't have both available (not even as options). The financing specials can save from hundreds to a couple of thousand $. When I compared cars before buying, the two cars I whittled it down to had different financing rates: 0.5% and 8.9%; the 8.9 was going to cost something like $2300 over the life of the loan.

Oh, you can buy a house with 0 down nowadays, although 3-5% is much more common and will get a better mortgage rate.

- Fushigi

 

[mubs]

Merc, Fushigi already said everything there is to say, but in a nutshell, reliability & warranty + safety & efifciency. While this is not automatically true for every new car purchased, with a little bit of care in the selection, these objectives can easily be achieved. And honestly, I think a lot of people select their cars more carefully then they do their significant other.

I've owned two Hondas and driven a few of my friends, and have always felt they were under-powered. Is this true for Accura's as well? I know I've only mentioned subjective feel and no hard numbers, but humor me anyway.

 

[honold]

congrats doug!

You know, I have secretly grown fonder of the Acura 3.2's...If it had the 3.2 engine as an option (drool), I would be uploading pics of the TSX in my driveway as we speak.

how's the torque on the 3.2?

 

[Howell]

I've owned two Hondas and driven a few of my friends, and have always felt they were under-powered.

After driving my Dad's GMC Sonoma truck for a couple weeks I can say that there is something missing. The truck is four years newer and 150,000 miles younger and feels more sluggish than my car. They both have a V6 but mine is a manual and the truck is auto. Dunno the problem, but I don't like it.

 

[e_dawg]

I've owned two Hondas and driven a few of my friends, and have always felt they were under-powered. Is this true for Accura's as well? I know I've only mentioned subjective feel and no hard numbers, but humor me anyway.

Perhaps it is better to say that their engines lack torque. Some of the sporty models have engines that produce significant power -- but only at high rpm's. This is true for most of the low to midrange Japanese cars. Amongst the Acuras, the 1.7EL and RSX lack torque. While the TSX doesn't lack torque, it isn't overly abundant either. The 3.2 equipped TL and CL, however, have enough power and torque for almost anyone.

Honold, much of the stigma of minimal torque engines from Honda and friends comes from the fact that they use small displacement engines for fuel efficiency reasons. There is no replacement for displacement; small displacement = low torque. 3.2 litres of displacement equals quite a bit of torque and is quite adequate for a vehicle the size of the TL and CL. Not to mention, the 3.2-S variant puts out 260 silky smooth ponies. What's not to like?

The difference you will notice between the VW VR6 and the Acura 3.2 is that the VR6 is more biased for low end torque (esp. in the 2nd gen VR6 like I have, although the 3rd gen VR6 that you have is still designed for lots of torque) while the 3.2 has that high end power that the VR6 could only dream of.

 

[e_dawg]

The difference you will notice between the VW VR6 and the Acura 3.2 is that the VR6 is more biased for low end torque (esp. in the 2nd gen VR6 like I have, although the 3rd gen VR6 that you have is still designed for lots of torque) while the 3.2 has that high end power that the VR6 could only dream of.

For those of you who are not as familiar with this stuff, I want to stress that I am talking about the shape of the power and torque delivery curves here. There is no doubt that the 3.2 produces more torque at every rpm than the 2.8 litre VR6, but the shape of the VR6's power delivery is a little more biased towards the low end and the 3.2's curve is actually pretty flat at all rpm's -- it is the ability to rev to high rpm's (in the grand old Honda tradition) that gives it the 260 HP.

HP = torque x rpm / 5250

A much better example of this can be seen when comparing the 1.6 L inline-4 found in the 99 Civic Si to the 3.0 L V6 found in the Ford Probe / Mazda MX-6. Both have 160 HP, but the Honda I6 is biased for top end power -- it makes its power purely by RPM, not by displacement. The Ford V6, however, has lots of power at low to medium rpm's, but very little power at high rpm's.

 

[honold]

for as much city driving as i do, low-end is all that really matters to me. when i go off the line, i want to feel like i'm going off the line.

 

[mubs]

for as much city driving as i do, low-end is all that really matters to me. when i go off the line, i want to feel like i'm going off the line.

Absolutely. That was the reason for my comment that I felt that Hondas were sluggish. 99% of my driving is in the city. And in CA, where you have to merge into a bunch of banshees flashing by, it's painful to drive a sluggish vehicle.

My car is a '94 Camry V6 Automatic with 160k miles (it's the same powertain that went into the Lexus E300s of that era). My wife's is a Honda Civic Automatic with 13k miles (don't remember the displacement). My car still beats the pants of hers. I can't bear to drive her car, so when we go out together, it's always in mine.

She's a small person and wanted a small car (her first).

 

[e_dawg]

I know what you mean. That's why I got the 2nd gen VR6 Jetta. There were a number of cars that had more horsepower on tap. For example, the Celica GT-S and RSX-S have 180 and 200 HP, and both handle much better than the Jetta from the factory -- especially the GT-S. However, they have very little torque compared to the Jetta. Especially the GT-S. Something like 125 lb-ft of torque at 5500 rpm from the tiny 1.8 L inline-4. You gotta be kidding. So the Jetta it was, mushy handling and all. An aftermarket suspension kit solved the handling problems, and I get to enjoy the nice torque of the VR6.

 

[NRG = mc²]

auto box = sluggish

couple it to a small engine and you can watch the trees grow as you drive by.

 

[e_dawg]

Also, there is something to be said for being able to stay in 3rd gear all the way down to 20 mph without fear of being "caught with my pants down" in traffic. I can hit the gas at 1500 rpm and it still picks up nicely. I can also stay in 2nd gear at stop signs by keeping the car rolling a bit. It's at 800 rpm, but no matter. Hit the gas and it takes off beautifully.

 

[Handruin]

As Merc pointed out, the "sensible" thing to do is not always the actual thing we (or me in this case) does. I do have a love for driving based on the feel of accelleration and the wind in the face. (when the windows are down of course)

I traded in my current car because the warranty is getting close to being up. I figured out the cost of an extended warranty and put that money as a down payment to the new car. (plus a little more)

The styling on the TSX is a bit different than I usually go for. I've always been a two door coupe kinda person, but this time I'm trying a 4-door.

The power in the TSX is much better than I would have thought. Pulling out of the parking lot, the first thing Larua said from the passenger seat was "I guess it has no problem with power". In comparison to my current 3.2 V6, the 4 cyl. is noticebly different.

I've never driven a more powerful car than my CL-S and the torque curve on that car is pretty damn flat. (232 lb/ft @ 3500) The car has no problem keeping up with mustangs, and I've on occasion chirpped the tires going into second gear. A few weeks back a guy in a newer GTI was sitting next to me at a light near my house. I know he was planning to punch it when the light turned green so I let him view the type-s logo. I was able to put about 4 car lenghts on him in a few seconds, it was fun.

The car (to me) wasn't purchased as a status item. I'll agree that even the name acura implies something about the USA since Acura doesn't exist anywhere else. I'd be completely happy if the car said Honda TSX on it, and in fact I think it does in other countries. I bought the car for several reason:

1. New factory warranty and dependability
2. Side curtain air bags front and rear with other side air bags (front only).
3. Traction control and Active stability assist
4. 6-speed manual
5. Navigation
6. California Air Resources Board (CARB) LEV2 certified

So far I've only had one issue with my current CL-S and that was a leaky trunk. The service department made the problem non-existant as far as I could see. With no questions asked, they fixed the issue and gave me a rental while working on the car. They also replaced the carpeting in the trunk after the fix was made.

The issue was dealt with in a manner that makes owning a new car a dream. My wish would be that anyone with this type of problem, or worse would be treated in a respectful manner and have it taken care of with the least amount of inconvienience.

 

[Mercutio]

Driving is work. Boring, stupid work. Like digging holes, only without the satisfaction of scarring the crust of mother earth.

I just can't wrap my head around the common point of view here. I can buy an awful lot of repairs for the price difference between a new car and something that's four or five years old.

 

[blakerwry]

for as much city driving as i do, low-end is all that really matters to me. when i go off the line, i want to feel like i'm going off the line.

Absolutely. That was the reason for my comment that I felt that Hondas were sluggish. 99% of my driving is in the city. And in CA, where you have to merge into a bunch of banshees flashing by, it's painful to drive a sluggish vehicle.

My car is a '94 Camry V6 Automatic with 160k miles (it's the same powertain that went into the Lexus E300s of that era). My wife's is a Honda Civic Automatic with 13k miles (don't remember the displacement). My car still beats the pants of hers. I can't bear to drive her car, so when we go out together, it's always in mine.

She's a small person and wanted a small car (her first).

Heh, I have the '93 Camry V6... ~174k miles. Still drives well and the engine is in good shape. I'm surprised there's no rust on it being that I live in Kansas and we put salt on the roads every winter.

 

[e_dawg]

Driving is work. Boring, stupid work. Like digging holes, only without the satisfaction of scarring the crust of mother earth.

I just can't wrap my head around the common point of view here. I can buy an awful lot of repairs for the price difference between a new car and something that's four or five years old.

Merc, there is no need to understand the common point of view because it is essentially irrational. Some of us love cars and driving; some of us don't. Why do people love skydiving? Roller coasters? A particular movie or song? Why do two people fall in love? That question alone could defy logic for eternity. The answers rarely lie in logic and reason.

I would say people find any activity they dislike boring, stupid, and unsatisfying. I am sure most of us here feel that way about spending 3 hours shopping for shoes. Yet how many women do you know whose eyes would light up at the very thought?

If you are not smitten with cars and driving, it doesn't speak to your soul. It is no surprise that you would evaluate a purchasing decision purely from an intellectual point of view. And it is no surprise that buying a new car looks as a poor investment -- because it is. But for those of us who have that love of cars and driving, we assign an intangible value to newness and possessing a vehicle with the properties that are important to us on many different levels (think Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs for one example). It becomes just as much an emotional decision as it is an intellectual one... it can serve to satisfy social and self-affirmational needs that exceed that of basic transportation... or it could just be that the kid inside you really wants one

 

[Fushigi]

I will point out again the safety enhancements in new cars compared to cars from just 4 or 5 years ago. Traction control is now an option on many non-compacts. Vehicle Stability Control, which greatly reduces the chance of a rollover in an accident, is becoming available on more cars. Side curtain airbags are another recent safety measure trickling down from the high end to the mainstream. And now that airbags have been out for a while, the de-powered, safer airbags are coming out.

I don't buy a car as an investment, but I do buy new cars because I will hold on to them for at least 100K miles; preferably much longer. The fewer the miles on the car when I acquire it the (generally speaking) longer it will go before needing major, costly repairs.

I've bought used cars in the past. But having bought new a couple of times, I much prefer the new car experience.

And while you can buy a lot of repairs for the dollar difference between a new & used car, there's also the time & inconvenience factor to consider.

Buy hey, we can't all buy new cars .. then there'd be no market for used cars and trade-in values would be even worse than they already are.

Anyway, my 99 has 75K miles on it and has nothing wrong mechanically. I'll do the 75K checkup next week. It is my hope that I'll have it for another 75K or more.

- Fushigi

 

[e_dawg]

Pics of the 2004 Acura TL:

Pontiac Bonneville (front) meets the Cadillac CTS (back), with a hint of Jaguar and BMW in between.

Source: www.cardesignnews.com

Source: www.cardesignnews.com

 

[Fushigi]

The car (to me) wasn't purchased as a status item. I'll agree that even the name acura implies something about the USA since Acura doesn't exist anywhere else. I'd be completely happy if the car said Honda TSX on it, and in fact I think it does in other countries.

From what I've read, the TSX is sold in Europe as the Accord.

- Fushigi

 

[timwhit]

I was driving my Jeep last night and I pushed the clutch to change gears and I heard a pop. The next time I pressed the clutch it went down with no pressure at all. Then I pressed it a third time and it wouldn't go down and started to make a load noise. I had it towed to the shop where it spends about half its time.

They are now replacing the clutch for $920.

I have decided that I need a car that is reliable, new and that is also cheap. So I went to a Honda dealer today and test drove a Civic EX with a manual transmission. It only has 127HP but it was suprisingly peppy. It's quiet on the highway & rides very smoothly. Plus it is only $17,000 + tax. I'm seriously considering buying this car as soon as possible. Anyone have an opinion on the matter?

 

[e_dawg]

Timwhit,

The Honda Civic EX is a good choice for that price. It is the standard by which most econoboxes are compared to. Also consider:

- Mazda Protege 5: Great handling. More utility with the hatch/wagon crossover format.

- Nissan Sentra SE-R: A little more expensive, but with a 2.5 L, 165 HP engine, this is the hot-rod of the group.

Either of these three are excellent cars, but if I know you, I think you will like the SE-R the best. Test drive it and find out if I'm right.

 

[mubs]

Sorry to hear about the clutch, tim.

Noise is relative. My '94 Camry is significantly quieter than my wife's '99 Civic LX, which has unbearable (for me) noise (road & wind) and harshness levels. We don't listen to any music in it, and have to shout at each other. But compared to your Jeep, it's probably eerily quiet for you! If you want to be sure, take it out on the freeway, driving at regular freeway speeds, and leave the music system off, at least initially.

 

[Mercutio]

Might not be a new car, but you might look at a used Volvo, timwhit. Something in a 700-series. They're basically luxury cars, and about the only thing that breaks on them is the turbocharger. Probably not your style, but they last forever and ever and ever.

 

[Handruin]

I was driving my Jeep last night and I pushed the clutch to change gears and I heard a pop. The next time I pressed the clutch it went down with no pressure at all. Then I pressed it a third time and it wouldn't go down and started to make a load noise. I had it towed to the shop where it spends about half its time.

They are now replacing the clutch for $920.

I have decided that I need a car that is reliable, new and that is also cheap. So I went to a Honda dealer today and test drove a Civic EX with a manual transmission. It only has 127HP but it was suprisingly peppy. It's quiet on the highway & rides very smoothly. Plus it is only $17,000 + tax. I'm seriously considering buying this car as soon as possible. Anyone have an opinion on the matter?

Sorry to hear about the clutch. I had the same thing happened on my old 92' integra (over 100K miles on the clutch) and it wasn't fun. My clutch did the same thing, I was driving on the mass pike and I just came out of a toll booth and put her into 5th gear. Well, as it went into 5th, my car made a pop-like jolt. So I pressed the clutch again to check if it was OK and it was solid as a rock, I couldn't dis-engage the clutch.

I made it almost all the way home driving on interstate 84 (about 70 miles) to my exit. Once I got off the exit ramp, I pulled it out of gear and coasted into the grass because I was at a stop light. Had the light turned green, I probably could have made it to the garage.

Long story short, it ended up costing my almost $1000 like you. This was right after I had to replace both front calipers because one side seized up.

The civic is a good car. I've actually recommended the Civic LX to my sister as a way to save money and get a good reliable car. I checked last night and they have a 1.9% APR deal going on right now and also a lease deal. You might be able to make out on a good deal. Laura drives a 2000 civic EX and she's been really happy with it.

As e_dawg mentioned, the SE-R would be a bit sportier and faster than the Civic. If you like going that route, its probably a darn nice car.

 

[Howell]

So I went to a Honda dealer today and test drove a Civic EX with a manual transmission.

How did the drivers seat fit you?

 

[timwhit]

I just came back from the Nissan dealer and think I have changed my mind from the Civic to the Sentra SE-R. The SE-R costs just about the same amount of money. It's way faster, looks better, etc. From what I've heard and seen Nissans are pretty reliable cars. So I guess you were right e_dawg. My parents said they would co-sign the lease so I can get a good interest rate. I will most likely have a new car in about 3 weeks. I still have to go check out the Mazda dealership tomorrow though. And, I have to check insurance rates on all the different cars.

Howell, Both cars fit me just fine. I don't really have any problem fitting into either of them.

 

[e_dawg]

Thought you'd like it, Tim. One thing I would recommend is that you pony up the $700 for the ABS + side-impact airbags... you never know when they might help save your life.

 

[timwhit]

Thought you'd like it, Tim. One thing I would recommend is that you pony up the $700 for the ABS + side-impact airbags... you never know when they might help save your life.

Ya, that was the one option that I told the salesman that I would want. My Jeep doesn't have ABS and I really wish it did at times.

 

[Howell]

Is a 2.5L 4-cyl any/marginally/signifigantly more fuel efficient than a 2.5L 6-cyl?

 

[Fushigi]

I was driving my Jeep last night and I pushed the clutch to change gears and I heard a pop. The next time I pressed the clutch it went down with no pressure at all. Then I pressed it a third time and it wouldn't go down and started to make a load noise. I had it towed to the shop where it spends about half its time.

They are now replacing the clutch for $920.

I have decided that I need a car that is reliable, new and that is also cheap. So I went to a Honda dealer today and test drove a Civic EX with a manual transmission. It only has 127HP but it was suprisingly peppy. It's quiet on the highway & rides very smoothly. Plus it is only $17,000 + tax. I'm seriously considering buying this car as soon as possible. Anyone have an opinion on the matter?

Sorry to hear the news. The last time I had a clutch go on me, around 1989 or so, it was only $300 including the tow. That was an 85 Nissan Sentra. Good car, but bought stripped. My cars since then have been ATs as I couldn't stand all the clutchwork in Chicago traffic.

In all seriousness, go drive an Elantra GT 5 speed (hatch or sedan). 140HP, leather, sunroof, power everything for under $15K and you get the 10yr warranty + 5yr roadside assistance. Front & side airbags standard; ABS optional (I believe).

While you are researching, read owner comments in the forum at edmunds. There you'll also find comparisons and pricing info that should help your bargaining position when you decide to buy, regardless of model. Tons of great info there. Like:

- Lots of praise for the Mazda Pro5 but complaints include road noise and a harsh ride.
- Civic de-contenting and people saying they aren't as reliable as they used to be. Still solid cars and get excellent mileage.
- Elantra surpises many with the quality and reliability. Some think the ride is too soft.

Based on my past experience with Mazda customer 'service' and product quality, I won't be buying a Mazda anytime soon myself. Nissan I've no problem with. Toyondas don't suit my style and past dealer experiences have been quite bad, from being ignored by Honda to hearing the Toyota sales guy complain to us about the commission on Corollas. My Mitsu Galant has been a great car and I'll consider another, but I'm not so sure about the Lancer. My wife's Elantra is flawless after 2 years & 26K miles.

Finally, be sure to compare insurance rates as they vary wildly and could influence your purchase decision.

- Fushigi

 

[blakerwry]

mubs, sorry i didnt hear about your window problem sooner. (i only skim this thread occasionally)


I had a similar problem happen to my driver side window on my '93 camry. I rolled the window down and when I went to put it back up the motor would go and the window would remain stationary... after a bit of driving the window would slide all the way down.

The problem is that a cable (much like a bicycle break cable) has come out of position.

The cable has a crimped stopper on the end that keeps it in place on a wheel where the cable winds and unwinds to lift/lower the window.

In my case the wheel was plastic and the stopper was metal, the plastic wheel had worn enough to let the stopper pass through it.

I needed a new wheel and cable.. but not a new motor (you don't either since you verified that you can still hear it working) unfortunately they don't sell just the cable/wheel. You have to buy the rest of the assembly with it. $75 in my case.

If you have a few hours to mess with it, it's replacable your self.


The dealership I went to did a shitty install job, plus they tried to charge me for a new motor right off the bat(something i absolutely didn't need). In retrospect I would have rather done the job myself.

If you can still hear your motor working you probably don't need a new motor, so If the place you go to insists you do I'd look for another shop.

The cable/wheel and track assembly is a seperate part from the motor, so you shouldn't have to buy them together.


hope I've helped.

 

[Buck]

My passenger side front window (powered) got stuck yesterday while driving around town. It would go down, but wouldn't go back up. So, once I got home, I just removed the switch, took it apart, cleaned the contacts, blew out some dust, reassembled the switch, and ta-da, it works. Gotta love that.