Ever wanted to know the thoughts of car fans?

honold

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wow...i see nothing but complaints in the vwvortex forums/newsgroups about pre-2003 a4 jettas, mostly about window regulators and ignition coils. i know the regulator issue is fixed for 2003, but i'm still pretty concerned.

is this just a vocal minority? consumer reports has the 2002 golf and jetta tied for last place on reliability above the ford focus...
 

Handruin

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Wow that's surprising to hear they are tied for last place in reliability.
 

honold

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http://groups.google.com/groups?q="...vkf6mcsm0cvcnsecbelools5gmop8@4ax.com&rnum=10 sums it up

it would appear that the low reliability rating is factored by the number of trips one makes to the shop. as window regulators and coils were such a source of problems that both have extended warranties and official recalls, i would suspect that just about everyone did or will get theirs replaced.

apparently the 03 line has neither common affliction, but i have remaining concerns about the resale value after vw's name gets tarnished...
 

e_dawg

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Don't worry about it, honold. Yes, Mk4's are known for problems with window regulators, ignition coils, MAF's, and DV's (1.8T). But the good news is that the MAF's have gone down in price significantly and everything is under warranty for 4 years -- and even longer, because these are known problems. You could have bought a Japanese car if you wanted reliability, but you bought a VW because you wanted a car with character and style.

German cars in general have more reliability problems than Japanese cars; it's the nature of the beast. I could tell you countless stories about unreliable BMW and Mercedes from friends and family, and so could others on the net... Japanese cars have always been the resale value kings; VW never has been. Their reliability was always rated below average, but the resale value of the Mk4 has been higher than expected due to the tremendous demand for them. These were hot cars. Everybody wanted one. Now that the demand has died down, so has the resale value.

Don't fall into the trap of cognitive dissonance and buyer's remorse, scouring the net for all the reasons why you should have bought something else. Yes, it is a vocal minority; most people who have Mk4's that run beautifully are not going to waste their time on the Vortex. They are going to be out driving.

FWIW, my Mk4 has been going strong since I bought it in Aug 2001 despite using the driver's power window every day for security card access to my garage and dicking around with the air intake system, MAF housing, suspension, engine computer, door panels (I removed them and applied Dynamat to quiet the ride), and stereo system... (knock on wood)

It is a damn good car and you will love it. All cars have problems; some will have more than others. But basically, if you're lucky, you'll have no problems. If you're not, you'll get a lemon and be screwed. That goes with all cars, regardless of make.
 

e_dawg

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Very nice, honold... The meaty 3-spoke steering wheel, the special sport seats, the 6-speed tranny, the sport exhaust, and the new 24v VR6... I wish I had those GLI-specific features!

I just have one question: why is your seat heater on in Missouri? :eekers:

-------

For your first mod, may I suggest a short-shifter kit. Seeing as you probably shift several hundred times a day, it is well worth it.
 

honold

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considering a honda crv and a pontiac sunfire are my only regular references, it's mind-numbingly good :)

i absolutely love how the car is silent when idle. with no ac and no radio, the only clue the car is running is a SLIGHT jitter on the steering wheel. when you rev it up you get a smooth roar from the front.
 

NRG = mc²

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honold, you urgently need to lower the suspension an inch or two... it looks like you could loose a small kid under the arches :p

Are those tyres standard issue? In Europe, the Jetta (Bora as its called) and Golfs come with balloon-profile tyres. Mucks up the handling :evil:
 

e_dawg

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NRG = mc² said:
honold, you urgently need to lower the suspension an inch or two... it looks like you could loose a small kid under the arches :p

Ditto on that. May I suggest the Eibach ProSystem. 1.3" lowering, ~20 firmer springs and shocks, more responsive, less squat, dive, and roll, and minimal loss in comfort. What more could you ask for?

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=200618

Are those tyres standard issue? In Europe, the Jetta (Bora as its called) and Golfs come with balloon-profile tyres. Mucks up the handling :evil:

Ah, but honold bought the special edition GLI. No ballon profile tires on that luxo-rocket.... but hey, don't you have a broad range of high performance edition Golfs and Boras in Europe? Certainly more performance oriented models to choose from than in N.America...
 

Jake the Dog

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whilst honold is having a good time with his new car, I'm having considerable grief with my car. I managed to blow up another gearbox Friday afternoon :( I run a latemodel alloy case Supra 5 speed, and as nice and strong a gearbox as they are, it's always been a bit borderline as to wheher it would hold together with the amount of torque of my engine puts out. this is the 3rd Supra box I've blown up and like the others, it was 2nd gear that let go first. there's about 6 or 7 versions of Supra boxes and I've tried the 3 strongest (rare-as-hens-teeth twin-turbo close ration competition Supra box). so now I've got to look at other options, unfortunately at considerable expense. I hold no hopes in finding the 500+ HP cabale competitoon Supra box so I'll be lookiung at getting a Tremec T56 or Doug Nash DN5 which are nastily expensive to import. if you add the cost of fabricating a bellhousing(none are made to suit my engine), crossmember, yoke etc, then it well into $5k+ mark.

oh well, these are the trial and tribulations of owning a Street Machine.

at least I don't have to shell out for something like this:

feature_cars_01_09.jpg


a friend of mine just paid over AU$8k for this Jerico 5 speed (with side cluster gear, straight cuts, magnesium case. then again he needs it with to handle his 780+ HP engine.
 

Handruin

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honold said:
http://www.ksdk.com/weather/default.asp

plus my girlfriend is obsessed with them. nothing but the best for her ass! :)

Nice ride honold, I like the rims on your Jetta. I don't really care for the stock hubcaps, but those are nice. Those rims out do the previous models rims as seen in the jetta located next to yours. I'm jealous to see a 6-speed tranny, it makes me want to trade my car in for a manual. :wink: Is that a tiberon parked on the passenger side of your Jetta?

It's funny you mention the seat heaters because my girlfriend is also obsessed with them. I use it occasionally, but I don't leave it on long because the sensation is weird, it makes me feel like my ass is on fire.

My car also suffers from the large cap in the wheel wells even with 17" rims. I've looked into lower the car, but I'm afraid to do anything to it until the warranty runs out. I can almost imagine getting greif for any warranty related issue if I make a change like that to the car.
 

honold

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no mods for me for a while. maybe in a year or two :)

for warranty hassle and other reasons i want to stick to the defaults until about 30k-40k miles, at which point i'll be 'newing up' my car with a mod. adding while i still have the new car joy would probably add about 5% to my happiness, where doing it a couple years from now would add about 20%.
 

Handruin

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I actually feel the same way. First issue was warranty, and the second thing for me was that adding on to the car at such an early stage would have litte enhancment overal. Another weird thing that plagues me is that I don't feel like I own my car.

I'm paying a loan like the majority of people who purchase vehicles these days so this makes me feel like I'm borrowing the car. I know it doesn't make much sense, it's just a feeling I have. I also know that if I get layed off, my car will be the first to go.
 

honold

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in my self/jetta-obsessed mind i neglected to say this: sorry to hear about your situation handruin, and i hope it gets resolved quickly and cheaply!
 

honold

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and yes, that is a tiburon - my roommate's.

my gf (who also lives with me) drives a mid-nineties honda crv. that thing is as reliable as the day is long, very roomy, and a perfect height. i like the way older crv bodies look too.
 

e_dawg

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Good luck, my fellow canine... I would feel sorry for you, but as a fellow modder (although not nearly as serious as yourself), I know you have long since learned that if you want to play, you gotta pay :evil:
 

NRG = mc²

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Ah, but honold bought the special edition GLI. No ballon profile tires on that luxo-rocket.... but hey, don't you have a broad range of high performance edition Golfs and Boras in Europe? Certainly more performance oriented models to choose from than in N.America...

They all have high profile tyres except for the R32 and 4Motion...

I take it you know the R32? http://www.tyresmoke.net/gallery/album19
 

e_dawg

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... but I should add that we are all waiting for it in N.America!!

(wonderful car, but for some reason I have lost interest in hatchbacks -- especially the Golf style... maybe it's because I was obsessed with the A2 GTI and have been overexposed to them...)
 

honold

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i still think the 4-door golf looks stunning, but there isn't a 4-door gti in the usa.

the reason i wanted the jetta is because for years, since probably 99, when evaluating cars to buy i would always come back to the jetta. 'oh hey the tt looks nice...' 'oh hey a lexus rx300 wouldn't be bad...' 'i guess i could get used to the 2-door gti...' 'the bmw 325/330 isn't that pricy...'. it's easy for me to know it's not a personal fad.

the other thing is that the jetta can be sporty when i'm feeling sporty, and professional when i'm feeling professional. a gti is always going to be sporty, and a bmw is always going to be professional.

i am getting the trunk swapped with another car because i INSISTED upon NO SPOILER for this car.
 

Howell

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honold said:
i am getting the trunk swapped with another car because i INSISTED upon NO SPOILER for this car.

I think that petite spoiler looks nice; not overbearing. It complements the sporty wheels. If you get it changed, where would the third tail-light be.
 

timwhit

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I have been thinking of selling my Jeep lately. Mainly because there are a lot of problems with it, and I don't think it is worth it to get them all fixed. It is a 1998 Wrangler Sahara with 70K miles. The problems are the AC is broken, the cruise control is broken, the horn is broken, the water pump needs to be replaced, there is a stablizer bar that is broken, and the clutch will need to be replaced in the next couple thousand miles.

I've been looking at the Dodge SRT-4. 0-60 in 5.8s sounds pretty damn nice to me. And the base price is only $19,995. Let me know what you think of this car.
 

honold

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srt-4's specs are great but it just doesn't have much personality to me :<

i got my deck lid swapped so i'm happily spoiler-free :) i'll update the pics tonight maybe
 

e_dawg

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Tim,

I don't mean to be a car snob, but are you seriously considering a Neon? Sure, it has a powerful engine relative to its size... but it's a Neon! Awful little car in its typical form; that power-to-weight ratio can't begin to make up for its deficiencies as a basic car.
 

Fushigi

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Tim, I'm curious why you're showing loyalty to the company (DC) who sold you a vehicle that has so many problems. Modern vehicles, unless they have been abused, should have experienced 0 to 1 unexpected repairs in the first 70K miles of ownership. To have so many problems, again unless the vehicle has been abused, would make me wary of buying the same brand again (and if I know I abuse my vehicles, I'd want something more durable).

Everything you listed as broken except the clutch is a non-wear item that should last the life of the vehicle.

That's my unbiased opinion. My biased opinion: My brother was a Chrysler guy from the late 70s through the late 90s. What made him change was owning 2 Neons in a row.

- Fushigi
 

e_dawg

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BTW, you can get a lot of great cars for $20k -- all of them much much better than the SRT-4.

For $21k, you can get a Mazda 6 with the 220 HP 3 liter V6. Handling, reliability, performance, interior space, good looks, stick shift, and the price is right. If you compare that to a $20k glorified Neon, I don't see how you could walk away with anything but the 6.
 

timwhit

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First of all if I buy a car it can't cost that much money. I have ruled out used cars because I want something with a long manufacturers warranty. The SRT has a 7 year 70,000 mile powertrain warranty.

I'm open to suggestions on any new car under $20,000 that isn't slow as snot and has a decent warranty.
 

timwhit

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e_dawg said:
BTW, you can get a lot of great cars for $20k -- all of them much much better than the SRT-4.

For $21k, you can get a Mazda 6 with the 220 HP 3 liter V6. Handling, reliability, performance, interior space, good looks, stick shift, and the price is right. If you compare that to a $20k glorified Neon, I don't see how you could walk away with anything but the 6.

Road & Track said:
Inside, the 6 has lost some space for the front-seat folks, while it has gained in some rear-seat areas, like leg room (an increase of almost 2 in.) and head room, although the latter is still a bit lacking for anyone over average height.

Im 6 foot 2 so this might not fit me all that well. Plus the Mazda 6 nicely loaded is more like $24,000 not $20,000. The SRT already comes with every option I would want for $19,995. I really can't afford the extra $4,000. To top it all off the 6 is fairly boring looking.

Did any of you actually read the review I linked to?
 

timwhit

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honold said:
srt-4's specs are great but it just doesn't have much personality to me :<

i got my deck lid swapped so i'm happily spoiler-free :) i'll update the pics tonight maybe

I haven't driven it yet, I will decide if it has personality after a test drive. I just need to find a dealer that has one first.
 

Mercutio

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Forgive me for asking a perfectly innocent question but... Why does a car need to go fast? Even in places where average speed of traffic is 80mph (I'm thinking of 394 between, oh, the 80-94 merge and Exchange road - timwhit knows what I'm talking about, probably), you aren't going much faster than that, er... ever, as far as I can tell.

So what difference does it make if the top speed of your car is 90 or 120mph?
 

honold

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timwhit said:
I haven't driven it yet, I will decide if it has personality after a test drive. I just need to find a dealer that has one first.
i was referring to the aesthetics. i don't think it's very unique looking, and it still looks like a neon, and it still says 'neon' :)

i could have bought a scooby wrx for around the same price as my jetta but i didn't because i didn't like the look/feel.
 

honold

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Mercutio said:
So what difference does it make if the top speed of your car is 90 or 120mph?
top speed doesn't make much difference to me, liftoff and torque does. i want to feel like i'm MOVING when i start moving.
 

Fushigi

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timwhit said:
I'm open to suggestions on any new car under $20,000 that isn't slow as snot and has a decent warranty.
Nissan Spec V. 0 to 60 in 7ish seconds without needing a turbo; negotiated price under $18K. 175HP, 185 LB-Ft torque.

And don't knock it until you've driven it, but the Hyundai Elantra GT has a good 140HP engine + the 10 year warranty and is available under $15K (possibly under $13K). Not a barn-burner but it can get out of it's own way quite nicely. Check the forum to see what the owners say about it.

- Fushigi
 

e_dawg

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timwhit said:
Did any of you actually read the review I linked to?

Yes, typical SCC. Basically it says what a great bargain the SRT-4 is because it crushes all the cars in the same price range at the track. Big deal. There is so much more to a car than its performance. Besides, you can take any car and hot rod it at the shop. Add a blower and tune the suspension. At least you'll be starting with a much better car as a foundation.

I know the SRT-4 will be impressive during a test drive, but try living with one for a while and then you'll notice how bad that car really is overall. I had the (dis)pleasure of living with a Neon for a week as my Jetta was in the shop (thieves did a smash and grab on my stereo; had to get the driver's side windows and doors repaired and repainted). Within days, I tired of the lack of refinement and nonexistent build quality. Every part of it screamed "cheap". The steering felt as if it were connected to the wheels via rubber bands. No power, despite the NVH of the drivetrain. The tranny is perfectly described as a "slushbox". You might think it handled well for all the crash and bang over the bumps, but nope.

Of course, the SRT-4 will perform and handle much better than the Neon I was blessed (cursed) with, but you will still be afraid of closing the doors with a little too much force, lest you shatter all the windows... likewise when closing the trunk... and then you will notice that the trunk lid reverbates like a sheet of tin flapping in the wind... you will curse when the trunk hinges swing down into the trunk and crushes you groceries (or worse, your new server enclosure)... after the driver's seat cushions wear out after a few months, you will feel like you've sunk into grandpa's snuggle-soft couch... driving on the highway at 65 mph, you hear the roar of wind and road noise; can't imagine what you would get at 80 mph (but I could never get there because the darn thing didn't have enough power on the inclines)... the lack of confidence as the car wanders a bit at 65; again, I wonder what it would be like at 80... and the list goes on...
 
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