Ryzen

[sedrosken]

I still think the 5500 is fairly cromulent for most uses, but then, I'm not doing huge data crunching or media editing. I use mine in my server but that's just because I saw the 5700X going for cheap and wanted to kick something with a Zen 3 memory controller into my server -- at this point, I'm not sure why, because it didn't really work out anyway -- otherwise I'd still be gladly using the 5500 in my main machine. Just about the most intensive things I do are emulation (86Box/PCem are HEAVY) and compilation, and both of those are handled fine.

 

[Santilli]

I still think the 5500 is fairly cromulent for most uses, but then, I'm not doing huge data crunching or media editing. I use mine in my server but that's just because I saw the 5700X going for cheap and wanted to kick something with a Zen 3 memory controller into my server -- at this point, I'm not sure why, because it didn't really work out anyway -- otherwise I'd still be gladly using the 5500 in my main machine. Just about the most intensive things I do are emulation (86Box/PCem are HEAVY) and compilation, and both of those are handled fine.

Great word use! Had to look up cromulent!!
The most this machine is going to do is output to a 55" TV Hulu. Rest of it is word processing, or really old games, like Oregon Trail.
My SO is math and computer retarded. She did pass the Calbar, though. She's not dumb. Just retarded in computer and math;-)
I'm going to make this new, and keep her happy, so she doesn't get super upset when she finds out what I have in my machine.

 

[LunarMist]

Why would you put a $500 RTX 4070 in that system? The 5700G has more than adequate graphics for 4K TV for less than a $100 more than the Ryzen 5500.

 

[Santilli]

Why would you put a $500 RTX 4070 in that system? The 5700G has more than adequate graphics for 4K TV for less than a $100 more than the Ryzen 5500.

https://versus.com/en/amd-ryzen-5-5500u-vs-amd-ryzen-7-5700u
Seems these are pretty much the same in graphics.

 

[LunarMist]

Those U series are low power laptop CPUs. I thought you were building a small desktop system.
The Ryzen 5 5500 is for the AM4 socket and has NO functional GPU. The AMD 5000 series has no GPU by default, which is why they developed the 5xxxG (graphics) series with an iGPU (AMD's term is APU). AMD added an iGPU to the 7000 series I/O chiplet so they all have some level of GPU.

 

[Santilli]

Thanks. Was wondering about that.
Looks like I'll stick with the 1060.
Should be ok for her stuff...
I assumed, and look at what it did for me, that the 5500 had a gpu, since the motherboard has an HDMI out...

 

[Santilli]

Ok. I thought the 5500 had a gpu. My bad. I see no reason now not to spend the extra bucks. 80 bucks for an onboard gpu, if it's as good as they say, is a great idea, since the only graphics card I have might die soon. It is rather old. Just ordered the

AMD Ryzen 7 5700G 8-Core, 16-Thread Unlocked Desktop Processor with Radeon Graphics for 164.00 with Wraith cooler.​

Return the 5500, and the RD-15, and I'm about 50 bucks richer.

Those U series are low power laptop CPUs. I thought you were building a small desktop system.
The Ryzen 5 5500 is for the AM4 socket and has NO functional GPU. The AMD 5000 series has no GPU by default, which is why they developed the 5xxxG (graphics) series with an iGPU (AMD's term is APU). AMD added an iGPU to the 7000 series I/O chiplet so they all have some level of GPU.

 

[Santilli]

Those U series are low power laptop CPUs. I thought you were building a small desktop system.
The Ryzen 5 5500 is for the AM4 socket and has NO functional GPU. The AMD 5000 series has no GPU by default, which is why they developed the 5xxxG (graphics) series with an iGPU (AMD's term is APU). AMD added an iGPU to the 7000 series I/O chiplet so they all have some level of GPU.

Thank you!!!

 

[Mercutio]

I'm building a Ryzen 7600X / X670E system today. The CPU is a placeholder for whatever Zen 5 thing I get since it'll be easy enough to resell.
I'm using GSkill DDR5 6000 EXPO RAM, a GTX 1080Ti and a Peerless Assassin HSF just to get the thing going. I assume this thing as it is will be a little faster than the Ryzen 5900X/A770 for modest workloads, but the goal will be move my Threadripper into a back-end role once I get big boy parts for it. I'm debating the idea of getting an AIO for the finished build, but Noctua has been just fine for me for probably decades at this point.

 

[LunarMist]

Why not just start with the newest CPU and chipset, e.g., 9950x on X870E?

 

[Mercutio]

I wanted to put something together today because I haven't built a full desktop in ages.
Also I want PCIe lanes more than I want a Thunderbolt port that'll never get used.

The leftovers after I'm done will probably get assembled into a midrange PC that I can sell. A GTX1080 is STILL a respectable card and the peerless assassin is an extremely good cooler that costs all of $30.

I like the Cooler Master S600 a lot. It's a really smart design for cable management, although feedback from the peanut gallery says it needs more RGB inside.

 

[ddrueding]

I put AIOs or custom water cooling on my rigs because I like complications, but I alway just recommend the biggest Noctua. It is the correct practical answer for just about everyone if it fits the case and budget.

 

[LunarMist]

Is there any air cooler better than the NH-D15? I have two of them in use. One is black and one is the crappy 2-tone brown color like a 1980s car.

 

[ddrueding]

Nope, pretty sure that is still the best, or at least within a few percent of the best.

 

[Mercutio]

I've compared Noctua / Scythe tower coolers with what I'm guessing are midrange and up AIOs. It's kind of apples and oranges since the AIOs usually support a different cooling load, and not in an absolute noise controlled setting, but I have yet to experience an AIO rig that is as quiet as high end air cooling. I've installed AIOs for other people but I've also heard horror stories about pumps dying or leaks and I'd just rather not.

 

[LunarMist]

I don't see any prices yet. Will the 9950X be $700 or so? If replacing the old 7950X, then is it just a matter of removing the fans, unscrewing those two screws with a long screwdriver, gooping the new CPu and then reinstalling, right? I really don't want to remove the motherboard and the giant video card, PCIe cards, cables, etc.

 

[Mercutio]

Leaked prices suggest the new guys will be a little cheaper, like $50 less than last gen for the new Ryzen 9s. I don't see anything else but a 9950x in my future but maybe the single core advantage will make me look at the 9900x instead.

 

[LunarMist]

Why would that be? The single-threaders are the same for the 7900X and 7950X.

 

[Mercutio]

Higher all core clock.

 

[LunarMist]

I can understand that few cores are faster but you said, "maybe the single core advantage will make me look at the 9900x instead."

 

[Mercutio]

IIRC the all core speeds on the 12-core SKUs are supposed to be generally higher for faster single threaded capability, but I did just look and the TDP on the 9900X only has a 120W TDP instead of 170W like the 7900X, so no, there's no reason to look at the less expensive one in this generation.

 

[LunarMist]

Are you saying that if 12 cores are used in a 12-core CPU that is better than using 12 cores from a 16-core CPU? I did not think there is much if any performance advantage to fewer cores in modern desktop CPUs and most programs. The core power/speed is so dynamically managed and also the thread affinity changes frequently, so the CPUs are quite efficient and maximize performance. It's not like server CPUs that don't have nearly enough TDP to run all cores at the same speeds as the desktop CPUs, and they are not designed for that. I've played around too much with disabling cores, disabling SMT, etc. Only the latter has helped and that's more of an issue with old software and cooling.

What I don't know is how the asymmetrical CPUs with 2-3 kinds of cores behave with various loads. iNtel is moving away from hyperthreading, so they must have a reason.

 

[ddrueding]

I suspect that AMD is in a similar boat as Intel, basically clocking until thermal throttling. In order to maximize single core performance for me, I had to disable all the E-Cores and some of the P-Cores in the BIOS. I even bought the CPU that didn't have the iGPU on it to free up some watts for compute.

 

[Santilli]

 

[Santilli]

 

[LunarMist]

I suspect that AMD is in a similar boat as Intel, basically clocking until thermal throttling. In order to maximize single core performance for me, I had to disable all the E-Cores and some of the P-Cores in the BIOS. I even bought the CPU that didn't have the iGPU on it to free up some watts for compute.

Disabling the SMT for the Ryzens was the most effective for me. 16 cores is enough and it keeps the CPU from throttling. Single-thread is so dependent on the generation of architecture.

 

[Santilli]

 

[LunarMist]

The challenge with that asymmetrical extra L3 cache is that the impact is all over the place depending on how the application uses it. Games are one of the main use cases, whereas other software benefits more from fewer faster cores like iNtel and the extra cache does little. Did you run Passmark on your new system and see it works with different cores disabled?

I'm not waiting for the X3D version of the Zen 5. I'm just not convinced that it will help my programs enough or may be slower than the regular Zen 5 if they cannot get the power up to 170W. Given that it has been 2 years since Zen 4, maybe AMD can improve the X3D tech for Zen 5 and not just have a chip grafted just one side of the CPU, i.e., only 8 cores.
The Zen 6 is more interesting, but that will be on 11 and I don't want to deal with it until then.

 

[Santilli]

The single thread tests on these 3 are within 3.0% of each other.
Essentially no difference.
The 7900X3D has a 4.4mhz low end, and 5.6 high end.
Seems to me not a lot of difference between the 3 chips, and the value goes to the
7900X3D, since most of my stuff is probably going to work best with a high single clock rate.
Should compare the 7800X3D.
Suspect that was probably enough for me...

 

[Santilli]

Memory use. VM turned off. Most memory ever used for me.

 

[Santilli]

Looks like the 78003XD would be a great choice, value wise.

 

[LunarMist]

Looks like the 78003XD would be a great choice, value wise.

You bought into a nearly end of life Zen 4 CPU though they are all a pretty good value now. I can understand since you are so into gaming and it will be later in the year when the Zen 5 X3D arrives.

 

[LunarMist]

Looks like the 78003XD would be a great choice, value wise.

You bought into a nearly end of life Zen 4 CPU though they are all a pretty good value now. I can understand since you are so into gaming and it will be later in the year when the Zen 5 X3D arrives.

 

[Santilli]

I bought the 7900X3D. The compare shows it's faster clock speed, single thread, then the7950X3D for about 200 dollars less.
The office machine is a 5700G. Should be about 3-8 times faster then the Intel 920. Plus, I don't need a video card, even though I have one. Funny part is I did all this compare stuff AFTER I bought the parts. I've found it's fun to do the research, but, it's far easier just to follow DD's recommendations, and the people here, then do a bunch of research.
You all are amazing. The concept of turning off cores in the bios, and cache, to see if you can keep heat down just amazes me. Also going to that kind of stuff to test max speed, amazing.

 

[LunarMist]

You were using nothing new between that 2008 Bloomfield and the Zen 4?

 

[Santilli]

You bought into a nearly end of life Zen 4 CPU though they are all a pretty good value now. I can understand since you are so into gaming and it will be later in the year when the Zen 5 X3D arrives.

I'm wondering if the Zen 5 X3D's are going to be a large enough increase to replace a 7900X3D.
I kind of doubt the increase would be noticeable with my setup...

 

[Santilli]

You were using nothing new between that 2008 Bloomfield and the Zen 4?

Correct. The old rig did everything I needed to do, until it was getting near 100% cpu use, while watching video, or Hulu. I also found RAM really helped, and I was stuck at 16 GB, unable to fill the other 2 slots to get it to 24.
I've yet to find any programs that are adversely affected by turning off VM, and it seems to smooth out the system, at least in my own beer induced delusions.

 

[Santilli]

I suspect that AMD is in a similar boat as Intel, basically clocking until thermal throttling. In order to maximize single core performance for me, I had to disable all the E-Cores and some of the P-Cores in the BIOS. I even bought the CPU that didn't have the iGPU on it to free up some watts for compute.

This amazes me! How did it work? And why did you do that?

 

[Santilli]

 

[Santilli]